RugbyRebels

Zhivago wrote:

Stom wrote: Wait, what?

No, no, no. While I agree with the concept that class conflict is a thing, I definitely disagree with the idea it is the be all and end all. In fact, it's an incredibly shallow and 1 dimensional way of looking at the world that requires no nuance at all. You can just lump all the billionaires together, Bill Gates is the same as Carlos Slim, who's the same as Soros, who's the same as Sheldon fucking Adelson.

No, they're not.

'be all and end' all is a misrepresentation of my point, and my point is also pretty much the opposite of 'lumping all the billionaires together'.

Stom wrote:In fact, if a traditional capitalist was alive today to see what is called capitalism, he'd be aghast. This is post-capitalism, neo-capitalism, or whatever you want to call it. And the people who vote for populists are not people who are supported by neo-capitalism, but people who are held back by it.

This is just too irrelevant and incoherent to find a point in it. Again arguing against something I never claimed. Try actually reading my post before replying.

Stom wrote: So, perhaps, it's not about class at all. Perhaps it's about a sense of identity, of self.

Sociologically, we've moved further and further away from a system where the individual can get to know themselves and toward a place where people do not understand their own urges, thoughts or feelings. That leaves them grasping at any means to identify themselves.

So identity politics becomes a thing.

I'm a liberal!
I'm a conservative!

People just attach themselves to whichever group better represents what thoughts they do have about themselves. And because they've never learnt to know and understand themselves, they gradually become more and more radicalised by it.

So much so they will follow the same people who want to take away everything they own, they will shout down and vote down any policy designed to help them, and they will destroy their own lives because it does not fit the image they have created.

Popularism is just a symptom of a wider disease: people do not know themselves and the education system fails to provide them with the tools to do so.

That's why we get Brexit and Trump, not fucking capitalism.

And now you're pushing your rant against identity politics. The only relevance it has is in the effect it has in creating false consciousness in people so that they identify with a class that they are not a part of.

morepork wrote:He is far too thick for that. There is no way in, even he knows it. He is doing two things. One, milking government and ignorant people for as much as they both will give. Two, covering his tracks for as long as possible before the new tenant comes in because the actual state of government once revealed will be a sight to behold. There will be so much unaccounted for expenditure, so many smoldering fires, and so much incompetence laid bare. Little tastes of this have surfaced, like the billions in construction contract given out to idiots to build a small section of fence on the southern border and Kushner's spunking money into thin air with his coronavirus efforts. It will not be pretty.

morepork wrote:He is far too thick for that. There is no way in, even he knows it. He is doing two things. One, milking government and ignorant people for as much as they both will give. Two, covering his tracks for as long as possible before the new tenant comes in because the actual state of government once revealed will be a sight to behold. There will be so much unaccounted for expenditure, so many smoldering fires, and so much incompetence laid bare. Little tastes of this have surfaced, like the billions in construction contract given out to idiots to build a small section of fence on the southern border and Kushner's spunking money into thin air with his coronavirus efforts. It will not be pretty.

Zhivago wrote:there was also talk that he might step down and pence would pardon him for whatever crime he might have committed

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Zhivago wrote:there was also talk that he might step down and pence would pardon him for whatever crime he might have committed

No idea of the rules here but I wonder if he can be pardoned preemptively for things he may be accused of in future (once the Biden team gets a look at the books)?

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Zhivago wrote:there was also talk that he might step down and pence would pardon him for whatever crime he might have committed

No idea of the rules here but I wonder if he can be pardoned preemptively for things he may be accused of in future (once the Biden team gets a look at the books)?

Which Tyler wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Zhivago wrote:there was also talk that he might step down and pence would pardon him for whatever crime he might have committed

No idea of the rules here but I wonder if he can be pardoned preemptively for things he may be accused of in future (once the Biden team gets a look at the books)?

If I understand things correctly -Ford's AG thought not when pardoning Nixon; and also thought that only federal level crimes could be forgiven by the president - but as far as I'm aware, it's never actually been tested, so no-one can be t sure - which means it comes down t the Supreme Court's opinion the first time it's tried and challenged.
Equally, it's possible that Trump might try to pardon himself, rather than giving Pence a few days in office to do it for him - again, without case-law, it basically ends up in the Supreme Court the first time it's tried and challenged.

Zhivago wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Zhivago wrote:there was also talk that he might step down and pence would pardon him for whatever crime he might have committed

No idea of the rules here but I wonder if he can be pardoned preemptively for things he may be accused of in future (once the Biden team gets a look at the books)?

Presumably he has prosecutors who can levy the charges to be pardoned.

There was also a suggestion that he might retire to Scotland for the rest of his days if he becomes persona non grata

Sandydragon wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: No idea of the rules here but I wonder if he can be pardoned preemptively for things he may be accused of in future (once the Biden team gets a look at the books)?

If I understand things correctly -Ford's AG thought not when pardoning Nixon; and also thought that only federal level crimes could be forgiven by the president - but as far as I'm aware, it's never actually been tested, so no-one can be t sure - which means it comes down t the Supreme Court's opinion the first time it's tried and challenged.
Equally, it's possible that Trump might try to pardon himself, rather than giving Pence a few days in office to do it for him - again, without case-law, it basically ends up in the Supreme Court the first time it's tried and challenged.

Being pardoned also implies some guilt in the first place which Trump may not be so keen on doing, given his protestations of innocence to his base thus far.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:If anything gets to the supreme court the 6-3 split will see him right.

Puja wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:If anything gets to the supreme court the 6-3 split will see him right.

I don't know that's necessarily true. Supreme Court judges can't be fired (especially not by an ex-president) and, while he is undoubtedly a despicable human being who holds some awful views and is absolutely guilty of sexual assault, Kavanaugh has shown very few signs that he's going to be a puppet for Trump. Same with Gorsuch. While I wouldn't trust them to vote on gay rights or racial justice, I think I would trust this Supreme Court to not uphold baseless Trump frothing.

Puja

canta_brian wrote:I wouldn't be too worried about any of these law suits getting as far as the supreme court. They are spurious at best it would appear. Each one that has made it to a court room has been discounted (the PA one where the observers were found to be there and allowed to move a foot closer for instance).

In my opinion this is all about Donny paying off the debts his campaign ran up.

He can't afford to litigate - Get Bill Barr to use public body officials to try and do so.

They won't find anything, but in the meantime Don can keep on sending email out to his base asking them to fund the legal challenges (which are now funded publicly, due to Barr) and keep paying off debts with the money that comes in. They even say on the email that 60% of any donation will go to paying down existing debts.

It's a grift, plain and simple.

This is your FINAL NOTICE.

So far, you've ignored all our emails asking you to join us in DEFENDING THE ELECTION. You've ignored Team Trump, Eric, Lara, Don, the Vice President AND you've even ignored the President of the United States.

TENS OF THOUSANDS of Patriots have stepped up for the VERY FIRST TIME in the last 48 hours - why haven't you?

morepork wrote:


WASHINGTON —

President Donald Trump announced Tuesday on Twitter that he has “terminated” top U.S. cybersecurity official Christopher Krebs.
In a pair of tweets, Trump said that Krebs gave a “highly inaccurate” statement about the security of the 2020 presidential election. Trump, who has not yet conceded to president-elect Joe Biden, alleged that there were “massive improprieties and fraud.”


The Fat Man's pettiness knows no bounds. He has allegedly been attempting to canvas support for a military strike on Iran too. I hope someone has a tight leash.