Ratings

[Banquo]

He's a little selfish on the wing - but then, show me a winger who isn't.
However, he's got a good pass on him when he chooses to use it IMO; not FH level, but good enough - probably about on par with Farrell in his current purple patch.

Fair enough, just not seen it deployed- I've noticed him running up a few blind alleys coming infield- so maybe less about handling, more about peripheral vision.

(ideally a top class centre would be a better passer than even new improved faz)

[Spiffy]

He's fine on the wing. Stop fiddling.

He is fine on the wing, no doubt. And just as soon as I'm happy with fine I'd no doubt settle for fine, for now I want a decent amount more.

Yes. Nowell is not bad, is a tough little nut, always gives 100% and is a good squad man. Agree with those who think he lacks classic wing pace. But Jones could better. I wonder if Daly has ever been considered for a wing slot? I have seen play well there in the past and he scored a try for Wasps from left wing last season that few others could have, with speed, footwork and strength. He has pace to burn, a good footballer, a massive left boot and is physical enough. I subscribe to the notion of getting the best available players on the pitch, even if it means juggling a bit. The All balcks are quite prepared to do this. An English threequarter line containing Watson, Joseph and Daly could be a potent attacking force, with a playmaker at 12.

[Mikey Brown]

The All balcks are quite prepared to do this. An English threequarter line containing Watson, Joseph and Daly could be a potent attacking force, with a playmaker at 12.

I just don't think we know how to deal with that.

We've had Joseph around for a little while. Very briefly Cipriani, Tait and Simpson-Daniel. Was that it? I'm not sure we had this many exciting running talents in '03 or since.

That's not to say the overall quality is the same or we have anything else in place but the potential is there. It's frustrating. I don't know if we just don't realise, or are scared to see, what we could do with a backline full of these types of players. Is it too big a jump in style? Are we worried about the 1 or 2 tries more that we may leak even if we score a hatful more in attack?

I appreciate Jones's efforts to build a solid forward foundation, I just hope we don't waste the best (kinds of) players we have at the moment in this search for a "traditional" English team.

[Beasties]

I'd be quite happy with a playmaker at 12. I'm not sure Daly would want to be playing wing, he can do a good job there but OC is the position he's most suited to. I'd rather he was cemented in as vying with JJ, leaving Manu to interchange with Devoto in the IC slot.

[Digby]

Yes. Nowell is not bad, is a tough little nut, always gives 100% and is a good squad man. Agree with those who think he lacks classic wing pace. But Jones could better. I wonder if Daly has ever been considered for a wing slot? I have seen play well there in the past and he scored a try for Wasps from left wing last season that few others could have, with speed, footwork and strength. He has pace to burn, a good footballer, a massive left boot and is physical enough. I subscribe to the notion of getting the best available players on the pitch, even if it means juggling a bit. The All balcks are quite prepared to do this. An English threequarter line containing Watson, Joseph and Daly could be a potent attacking force, with a playmaker at 12.

I'd be happy enough if they looked at Daly as an option on the wing. Though just on picking best players I prefer the idea of picking the best team over the best players.

[plainoldtoad]

Nowell is the new Mark Cueto. (But without the early tries)

[Digby]

Nowell is the new Mark Cueto. (But without the early tries)

And without the early pace.

[Mr Mwenda]

Nowell is the new Mark Cueto. (But without the early tries)

Isn't he on 8 tries in 12 caps or summin'?

[fivepointer]

Nowell is the new Mark Cueto. (But without the early tries)

Isn't he on 8 tries in 12 caps or summin'?

Yep, 8 in 12.

[Oakboy]

I think Nowell is an excellent finisher, surely the main attacking requirement of a winger! I'd trust him not to waste chances ahead of all the alternatives. He appears to have a rugby brain and puts his body in the right place at the right time. I like the wing balance with Watson on the other side.

The weakest part of the back three unit is Brown currently but I'll keep quiet about that because even off-form he's far better than Goode. EJ needs to develop a new FB as a long-term project.

[plainoldtoad]

Oh, right, and Cuets had 9 after 12.

All hail the new Mark Cueto.

[Banquo]

I think Nowell is an excellent finisher, surely the main attacking requirement of a winger! I'd trust him not to waste chances ahead of all the alternatives. He appears to have a rugby brain and puts his body in the right place at the right time. I like the wing balance with Watson on the other side.

The weakest part of the back three unit is Brown currently but I'll keep quiet about that because even off-form he's far better than Goode. EJ needs to develop a new FB as a long-term project.

would any of them get into a NZ team?

Unfair to pick on Nowell on this point, I agree

[Mikey Brown]

Anyone else feeling a massive u-turn on Daly as a fullback?

[Mellsblue]

Anyone else feeling a massive u-turn on Daly as a fullback?

You've gone soft since you started calling yourself Mikey.

Why mess him around? It's a great position to be in, having two very good players fighting for the same position. Having said that, I'd be tempted to move Watson to FB and Daly to wing (I'd move Watson regardless of who would replace him on the wing).

[fivepointer]

I think Nowell is an excellent finisher, surely the main attacking requirement of a winger! I'd trust him not to waste chances ahead of all the alternatives. He appears to have a rugby brain and puts his body in the right place at the right time. I like the wing balance with Watson on the other side.

The weakest part of the back three unit is Brown currently but I'll keep quiet about that because even off-form he's far better than Goode. EJ needs to develop a new FB as a long-term project.

would any of them get into a NZ team?

Unfair to pick on Nowell on this point, I agree

Terribly unfair. I doubt if any winger in the 6N's would get into the NZ side and precious few forwards or backs who would get into any other position either.

As it stands Nowell is a good option for this England side. His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.

[Banquo]

I think Nowell is an excellent finisher, surely the main attacking requirement of a winger! I'd trust him not to waste chances ahead of all the alternatives. He appears to have a rugby brain and puts his body in the right place at the right time. I like the wing balance with Watson on the other side.

The weakest part of the back three unit is Brown currently but I'll keep quiet about that because even off-form he's far better than Goode. EJ needs to develop a new FB as a long-term project.

would any of them get into a NZ team?

Unfair to pick on Nowell on this point, I agree

Terribly unfair. I doubt if any winger in the 6N's would get into the NZ side and precious few forwards or backs who would get into any other position either.

As it stands Nowell is a good option for this England side. His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.

...I think you understand my point though. He's adequate, but surely we have to do better, if we have any aspirations beyond the 6N (or even including them).

I don't understand why people are rushing to defend Nowell either. He's not under attack as such, just views being expressed as to limitations. And the day we say 'strengths outweigh weaknesses' say much about an international player, tbh. I'm not disagreeing, but its not the point at issue.

[p/d]

With you on this one Banquo. It does appear 'okay' and 'adequate' are becoming acceptable standards.

[Oakboy]

It does appear 'okay' and 'adequate' are becoming acceptable standards.

Of course they are. They represent hell of a step up from the RWC performance. Nobody (that I have seen) has hailed the current situation as anything other than a solid base to work from.

What counts is whether EJ can get some of the players up to top class (describe it how you like). I'd suggest that our front five unit can become that with development. Individually, Launchbury and Itoje will get there, IMO. Any of Watson, Joseph, Daly, Cipriani and Hughes may one day. Few others will go beyond being excellent team men, I'd guess, but that doesn't mean they cannot be part of a top-performing XV.

[Mikey Brown]

Anyone else feeling a massive u-turn on Daly as a fullback?

You've gone soft since you started calling yourself Mikey.

Why mess him around? It's a great position to be in, having two very good players fighting for the same position. Having said that, I'd be tempted to move Watson to FB and Daly to wing (I'd move Watson regardless of who would replace him on the wing).

I thought it would make me seem a bit less abrasive. I'm a VC and role model now don't you know?

I'm not suggesting Daly come in at 15 for the next game. I'm just feeling we may have some decent options in the centres and less so at fullback beyond myself. I'm not convinced about Watson there, seems to be doing great on the wing but maybe it will work.

Who are the promising 15s coming through? Goode, Foden, Pennell, Armitage, Abendanon are all pushing 30 no?

[Banquo]

Anyone else feeling a massive u-turn on Daly as a fullback?

You've gone soft since you started calling yourself Mikey.

Why mess him around? It's a great position to be in, having two very good players fighting for the same position. Having said that, I'd be tempted to move Watson to FB and Daly to wing (I'd move Watson regardless of who would replace him on the wing).

I thought it would make me seem a bit less abrasive. I'm a VC and role model now don't you know?

I'm not suggesting Daly come in at 15 for the next game. I'm just feeling we may have some decent options in the centres and less so at fullback beyond myself. I'm not convinced about Watson there, seems to be doing great on the wing but maybe it will work.

Who are the promising 15s coming through? Goode, Foden, Pennell, Armitage, Abendanon are all pushing 30 no?

Watson, though I have doubts about him at 15...only resolved by him actually playing there!

Foden is 31 this year, Armitage 32, Bendy 29, Pennell 28 and Goode a whippersnapper at 27

[fivepointer]

would any of them get into a NZ team?

Unfair to pick on Nowell on this point, I agree

Terribly unfair. I doubt if any winger in the 6N's would get into the NZ side and precious few forwards or backs who would get into any other position either.

As it stands Nowell is a good option for this England side. His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.

...I think you understand my point though. He's adequate, but surely we have to do better, if we have any aspirations beyond the 6N (or even including them).

I don't understand why people are rushing to defend Nowell either. He's not under attack as such, just views being expressed as to limitations. And the day we say 'strengths outweigh weaknesses' say much about an international player, tbh. I'm not disagreeing, but its not the point at issue.

I dont disagree that we should aim for the best players in every position. We are at a low ebb, though. We havent produced a real top drawer international for a decade. None of our squad would be regarded among the 2 or 3 best in their position in the world game. We have to turn that around. For now Nowell is fine when judged against the other contenders for the England shirt. He - like pretty much everyone who has played at international level - has weaknesses. If May comes back razor sharp, if Roko takes big strides forward, if Yarde develops his game or Nathan Earle fulfils his potential, then great lets pick 'em.

[Banquo]

Terribly unfair. I doubt if any winger in the 6N's would get into the NZ side and precious few forwards or backs who would get into any other position either.

As it stands Nowell is a good option for this England side. His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.

...I think you understand my point though. He's adequate, but surely we have to do better, if we have any aspirations beyond the 6N (or even including them).

I don't understand why people are rushing to defend Nowell either. He's not under attack as such, just views being expressed as to limitations. And the day we say 'strengths outweigh weaknesses' say much about an international player, tbh. I'm not disagreeing, but its not the point at issue.

I dont disagree that we should aim for the best players in every position. We are at a low ebb, though. We havent produced a real top drawer international for a decade. None of our squad would be regarded among the 2 or 3 best in their position in the world game. We have to turn that around. For now Nowell is fine when judged against the other contenders for the England shirt. He - like pretty much everyone who has played at international level - has weaknesses. If May comes back razor sharp, if Roko takes big strides forward, if Yarde develops his game or Nathan Earle fulfils his potential, then great lets pick 'em.

I've only been saying that for the last 10 years .

and I understand your caveat on Nowell, don't think anyone disagrees, so not really sure why he keeps being 'defended'. Worst case I've seen- from me- is adequate stop gap, which I think you agree with.

[p/d]

Move Joseph out one and bring Daly in. Less chance of getting run over out wide.

[fivepointer]

...I think you understand my point though. He's adequate, but surely we have to do better, if we have any aspirations beyond the 6N (or even including them).

I don't understand why people are rushing to defend Nowell either. He's not under attack as such, just views being expressed as to limitations. And the day we say 'strengths outweigh weaknesses' say much about an international player, tbh. I'm not disagreeing, but its not the point at issue.

I dont disagree that we should aim for the best players in every position. We are at a low ebb, though. We havent produced a real top drawer international for a decade. None of our squad would be regarded among the 2 or 3 best in their position in the world game. We have to turn that around. For now Nowell is fine when judged against the other contenders for the England shirt. He - like pretty much everyone who has played at international level - has weaknesses. If May comes back razor sharp, if Roko takes big strides forward, if Yarde develops his game or Nathan Earle fulfils his potential, then great lets pick 'em.

I've only been saying that for the last 10 years .

and I understand your caveat on Nowell, don't think anyone disagrees, so not really sure why he keeps being 'defended'. Worst case I've seen- from me- is adequate stop gap, which I think you agree with.

he may mature into a very fine international player. Maybe not as a wing but he is just 22 so has plenty of time to develop.

It would be nice if 2 or 3 of our younger players take the next step up from capable to outstanding.

[Digby]

Move Joseph out one and bring Daly in. Less chance of getting run over out wide.

Of the two JJ is the better defender, so why move him out to make space for Daly if the desire is to solidify the defence?