Savile inquiry

[kk67]

There is no cover up.

Not so sure. The lawyers are frequently scum,....we need more clarity.

[WaspInWales]

There is no cover up.

Not so sure. They are scum,....we need clarity.

I was being flippant.

[WaspInWales]

Nice edit!

[kk67]

There is no cover up.

Not so sure. They are scum,....we need clarity.

I was being flippant.

I'm trying to piss Eugene off.

[kk67]

Nice edit!

Sorry. Twat to the maximus. Saturday night...etc.

[morepork]

I'd still like to know how high up the food chain this goes.

From memory the most senior "pillar of the community" charged was Lord Greville Janner who had the good sense to die before his trial could take place. He was a Labour cabinet minister the Lord. A friend of Prince Andrew's has been convicted.

There's little reason to suppose that there is any lower a rate of paedophilia in the higher echelons of society than at the lower.

and the converse?

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I'd still like to know how high up the food chain this goes.

From memory the most senior "pillar of the community" charged was Lord Greville Janner who had the good sense to die before his trial could take place. He was a Labour cabinet minister the Lord. A friend of Prince Andrew's has been convicted.

There's little reason to suppose that there is any lower a rate of paedophilia in the higher echelons of society than at the lower.

and the converse?

What do you mean? Accused but not charged? Ted Heath was accused posthumously. The police (several forces) investigated the various allegations and found no reliable evidence. Here's an article from the Indy from before the police came back with their results which gives a bit of the gist: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 38812.html

They make some very good points including about the blackmail potential.

[rowan]

I wonder if this issue would have been treated any differently by the media if the victims had mostly been young girls. Just to throw that in there...

[Which Tyler]

Why on Earth would it?

My understanding is that, for paedophiles, gender is a non-issue.

[rowan]

Just that the general approach to the entire issue seems to have been a little blase. It's like in Nigeria where the first thing Boko Haram does when it attacks a village is take all the young men out into the street and execute them. Nary a mention from the media. But when a group of young women gets kidnapped, suddenly it's on the front pages of the international press and politicians and other high profile individuals all around the world are getting involved and pledging to deal with the situation pronto.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Why on Earth would it?

My understanding is that, for paedophiles, gender is a non-issue.

From cases I've seen that is not the case. Some are definitely only interested in boys, or only girls. It is somewhat surprising given they are interested in the pre-pubescent but that seems to be the case.

I wonder if this issue would have been treated any differently by the media if the victims had mostly been young girls. Just to throw that in there...

You'll probably find most of them are girls. That's certainly my experience in the courts. You are just letting your sexism show.

[rowan]

No, it's you who is sexist for dismissing the comment in this manner. You have been brainwashed to think in a certain way. The articles and documentaries I came across clearly gave the impression that the victims of the notorious London-based ring I referred to were mostly boys, though not exclusively. I might be wrong about that, but that was how it appeared. Generally I understand girls are marginally more likely to be abused than boys, depending which statistics you look at. Some statistics are acknowledged to be distorted by the greater likelihood of girls actually reporting the abuse than boys. That's one of the reasons it has taken so long for the Catholic Schools abuse scandals to come to light.

I was sexually abused at Establishment paedophile parties: Victim of 1970s Dolphin Square ring tells of being forced to perform sex acts as senior Tories celebrated Thatcher victory

Man, named only as David, said he was threatened and coerced into having paid sex with military figures, businessman and politicians in 1975

Told BBC Radio Four's World at One that he was paid for sex at VIP parties
Claims he witnessed two brothers - aged 8 and 10 - being sexually tortured

A victim of the alleged Dolphin Square sex ring claims he witnessed boys as young as eight being forced to perform horrifying sex acts by military figures and


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4Lx7RlOIc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Scotland Yard detectives believe that an organized pedophile ring at the heart of the British establishment was responsible for the murder of three young boys and the violent sexual abuse of dozens more.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -boys.html

He told the BBC the alleged abusers were very organised and arranged chauffeur-driven cars to collect boys from locations such as schools, and drive them to the places they would be attacked, such as hotels or flats in London and other cities. “Some of them were quite open about who they were,” he said. “They had no fear at all of being caught.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... o-evidence

[SerjeantWildgoose]

[morepork]

250.jpg

[SerjeantWildgoose]

[rowan]

Another example of sexual abuse of boys which was simply swept under the carpet, and this as recently as 2014:

Archbishop Anthony Apuron, 70, has vigorously denied allegations he molested at least five altar boys in the 1960s and '70s. The allegations got little attention when they first came to light in 2014 but resurfaced this summer after a deacon accused Apuron of keeping the archdiocese's sexual abuse policy weak to protect himself.

http://sobserver.ws/en/03_10_2016/regio ... ations.htm

[Which Tyler]

Again, why is the victims' gender relevant?

Child sex abuse happens, and is covered up wherever possible. Victims' gender is utterly irrelevant.

If you were going to claim anything using logic and common sense (rather than, you know, evidence or facts), then it should be that the abuse of boys gets more exposure when uncovered, but you've got an awful long way to go before showing any difference at all.

[rowan]

Okay, so let me ask you a question. Which received more attention from the media in your part of the world? The fact Boko Haram massacred the young men of the Federal Government College in northern Nigeria in 2014. Or the fact they kidnapped a lot of young women from a school in Chibok? Which attack drew the ire of politicians from the US, UK, France & Israel et al? I'd be interested in your answer to that very simple question.

The evidence I've seen of this particular paedophile ring I referred to is that the victims were mostly, if not exclusively, boys. Yes the approach to it appears to have been rather blase and it hasn't received a fraction of the media attention it warrants, in my view, but that's from someone who was living in New Zealand at the time, not Britain, of course.

Similarly, the international Catholic school scandals were covered up for a long time, and there is good reason to believe they still are to some extent. That probably has more to do with the power of the church than gender bias, though society hasn't exactly been whipping itself into a frenzy on the issue either.

A lot of research has been done in the US which shows males far less likely to report abuse of any nature. For example, it may surprise many people to learn that domestic violence is instigated by the female partner about as often as it is instigated by the male partner, and females are more likely to use weapons, for obvious reasons. This is often treated as something of a joke by the media, as is the issue of male rape within the prison system. It may also surprise many people to learn that the overwhelming majority of child abuse in the US is committed by mothers (though not sexual abuse).

American and British societies appear to have taken a rather superficial approach to the entire issue of gender equality. It's not about treating men as villains and women as victims. That might sell magazines or improve day-time TV ratings. But it is actually disempowering to women themselves, and your flat-out denialism is representative of the problem, not the answer.

The issue is also exploited for political gain. I grew up in a society which championed itself as a leader in women's rights yet at the same time was continuing to basically ignore indigenous rights. The former issue tended to smokescreen the latter to some extent, whether by design or not. Alan Duff could certainly have focused a lot more on racial discrimination and cultural genocide to provide a proper context for his writing, for example, but he was basically a lackey of the white establishment at the time and wrote what was acceptable.

[morepork]

Let's a;so bear in mind that US journalists lifted the lid on the festering pot that is the Catholic church fairly recently...

[Sandydragon]

Okay, so let me ask you a question. Which received more attention from the media in your part of the world? The fact Boko Haram massacred the young men of the Federal Government College in northern Nigeria in 2014. Or the fact they kidnapped a lot of young women from a school in Chibok? Which attack drew the ire of politicians from the US, UK, France & Israel et al? I'd be interested in your answer to that very simple question.

The evidence I've seen of this particular paedophile ring I referred to is that the victims were mostly, if not exclusively, boys. Yes the approach to it appears to have been rather blase and it hasn't received a fraction of the media attention it warrants, in my view, but that's from someone who was living in New Zealand at the time, not Britain, of course.

Similarly, the international Catholic school scandals were covered up for a long time, and there is good reason to believe they still are to some extent. That probably has more to do with the power of the church than gender bias, though society hasn't exactly been whipping itself into a frenzy on the issue either.

A lot of research has been done in the US which shows males far less likely to report abuse of any nature. For example, it may surprise many people to learn that domestic violence is instigated by the female partner about as often as it is instigated by the male partner, and females are more likely to use weapons, for obvious reasons. This is often treated as something of a joke by the media, as is the issue of male rape within the prison system. It may also surprise many people to learn that the overwhelming majority of child abuse in the US is committed by mothers (though not sexual abuse).

American and British societies appear to have taken a rather superficial approach to the entire issue of gender equality. It's not about treating men as villains and women as victims. That might sell magazines or improve day-time TV ratings. But it is actually disempowering to women themselves, and your flat-out denialism is representative of the problem, not the answer.

The issue is also exploited for political gain. I grew up in a society which championed itself as a leader in women's rights yet at the same time was continuing to basically ignore indigenous rights. The former issue tended to smokescreen the latter to some extent, whether by design or not. Alan Duff could certainly have focused a lot more on racial discrimination and cultural genocide to provide a proper context for his writing, for example, but he was basically a lackey of the white establishment at the time and wrote what was acceptable.

I think the term blasé could be used except for the number of enquiries which have looked into this. None f the evidence provided by the witnesses can be corroborated and three alleged murders have been investigated without a single body being found or any other reliable witness.

Nick, the main witness also claimed to have been abused by Saville yet failed to mention this to police when interviewed. Suggesting that this could be like other scandals where some investigations will unearth the truth misses the point that substantial investigations have already been undertaken - and nothing has been found. Whilst this keeps being kicked around like a political football, its worth remembering that reputations can be irreparably damaged by unsubstantiated rumors relating to paedophilia. If there is evidence then fair enough, but until someone can produce some then this seems to be more of a case of people wanting it to be true rather than being able to provide any proof.

[jared_7]

I'd still like to know how high up the food chain this goes.

From memory the most senior "pillar of the community" charged was Lord Greville Janner who had the good sense to die before his trial could take place. He was a Labour cabinet minister the Lord. A friend of Prince Andrew's has been convicted.

There's little reason to suppose that there is any lower a rate of paedophilia in the higher echelons of society than at the lower.

Wouldn't it be the opposite? Well at least in terms of acting on your desires? I would have thought there was an element of being in a position of power in these situations, e.g. the Catholic church etc...

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I'd still like to know how high up the food chain this goes.

From memory the most senior "pillar of the community" charged was Lord Greville Janner who had the good sense to die before his trial could take place. He was a Labour cabinet minister the Lord. A friend of Prince Andrew's has been convicted.

There's little reason to suppose that there is any lower a rate of paedophilia in the higher echelons of society than at the lower.

Wouldn't it be the opposite? Well at least in terms of acting on your desires? I would have thought there was an element of being in a position of power in these situations, e.g. the Catholic church etc...

I doubt it is the opposite and certainly doesn't seem to be in my experience. People abuse those who they have access to or can engineer access to. Step-children, grandchildren, natural children, nieces, nephews etc.

[jared_7]

From memory the most senior "pillar of the community" charged was Lord Greville Janner who had the good sense to die before his trial could take place. He was a Labour cabinet minister the Lord. A friend of Prince Andrew's has been convicted.

There's little reason to suppose that there is any lower a rate of paedophilia in the higher echelons of society than at the lower.

Wouldn't it be the opposite? Well at least in terms of acting on your desires? I would have thought there was an element of being in a position of power in these situations, e.g. the Catholic church etc...

I doubt it is the opposite and certainly doesn't seem to be in my experience. People abuse those who they have access to or can engineer access to. Step-children, grandchildren, natural children, nieces, nephews etc.

Ahh yep, that's a good point.