Page 4 of 9
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:31 pm
by fivepointer
Losing all 3 with a weakened squad may not bring about much outrage as long as we play decently and are competitive in all 3 games. If we lose all 3 badly, then pressure may come on but Eddie still has some credit in the bank.
But its the AI's that will really focus attention and establish just where we are.
If we play poorly then, with a full strength squad, then people are going to have every right to feel very jittery.
I think for now we are going to have to hope that we can find some form, that the team can put together 3 effective performances and that a few players emerge the better for the trip.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:04 pm
by Oakboy
fivepointer wrote:Losing all 3 with a weakened squad may not bring about much outrage as long as we play decently and are competitive in all 3 games. If we lose all 3 badly, then pressure may come on but Eddie still has some credit in the bank.
But its the AI's that will really focus attention and establish just where we are.
If we play poorly then, with a full strength squad, then people are going to have every right to feel very jittery.
I think for now we are going to have to hope that we can find some form, that the team can put together 3 effective performances and that a few players emerge the better for the trip.
Well argued but is there much reason to think that the availability position will be that different for the AIs? Injuries are injuries and I don't think many absentees are having elective surgery. Have any/many players been genuinely rested?
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:29 pm
by Mellsblue
Oakboy wrote:fivepointer wrote:Losing all 3 with a weakened squad may not bring about much outrage as long as we play decently and are competitive in all 3 games. If we lose all 3 badly, then pressure may come on but Eddie still has some credit in the bank.
But its the AI's that will really focus attention and establish just where we are.
If we play poorly then, with a full strength squad, then people are going to have every right to feel very jittery.
I think for now we are going to have to hope that we can find some form, that the team can put together 3 effective performances and that a few players emerge the better for the trip.
Well argued but is there much reason to think that the availability position will be that different for the AIs? Injuries are injuries and I don't think many absentees are having elective surgery. Have any/many players been genuinely rested?
Off the top of my head:
Rested- Care and Cole
Elective surgery - Kruis and Nowell
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:39 pm
by Which Tyler
Isn't the mighty Wigglesworth being rested?
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:42 pm
by Oakboy
Mellsblue wrote:Oakboy wrote:fivepointer wrote:Losing all 3 with a weakened squad may not bring about much outrage as long as we play decently and are competitive in all 3 games. If we lose all 3 badly, then pressure may come on but Eddie still has some credit in the bank.
But its the AI's that will really focus attention and establish just where we are.
If we play poorly then, with a full strength squad, then people are going to have every right to feel very jittery.
I think for now we are going to have to hope that we can find some form, that the team can put together 3 effective performances and that a few players emerge the better for the trip.
Well argued but is there much reason to think that the availability position will be that different for the AIs? Injuries are injuries and I don't think many absentees are having elective surgery. Have any/many players been genuinely rested?
Off the top of my head:
Rested- Care and Cole
Elective surgery - Kruis and Nowell
Well remembered! Is it fair to say none of those four are likely starters if everyone is available? Perhaps Cole is still the best TH scrummager? All are solid squad members but maybe all four are vulnerable to good performances in SA by rivals. It is also arguable that Care was simply dropped.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:42 pm
by Oakboy
Which Tyler wrote:Isn't the mighty Wigglesworth being rested?
Permanently, hopefully.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:55 pm
by Mellsblue
Oakboy wrote:Mellsblue wrote:Oakboy wrote:
Well argued but is there much reason to think that the availability position will be that different for the AIs? Injuries are injuries and I don't think many absentees are having elective surgery. Have any/many players been genuinely rested?
Off the top of my head:
Rested- Care and Cole
Elective surgery - Kruis and Nowell
Well remembered! Is it fair to say none of those four are likely starters if everyone is available? Perhaps Cole is still the best TH scrummager? All are solid squad members but maybe all four are vulnerable to good performances in SA by rivals. It is also arguable that Care was simply dropped.
I’d say that all would almost certainly be in Jones’s 1st XXIII. Cole, Care and Nowell definitely. Kruis fighting for one of three places; and only three, I hope.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:22 pm
by richy678
WaspInWales wrote:A whitewash will give the media all the ammo they need to start an 'Eddie must go' campaign.
We've been dreadful of late. Leaked points, chasing games, injuries, poor home form, poor away form, missed tackles, lack of attack...
The bubble will have certainly burst and you know the press will intensify their attacks. There's nothing they would love more than the RFU needing to replace the head coach so close to the RWC.
Tbh, I'm struggling to see positives for the 3 tests against SA. The first 2 tests are at altitude so that will count against us and the 3rd test could be about saving face or capitulating.
I suppose we'll see what kinda form SA are in against Wales...but we've already seen where we're at and what we're unable to do, so we're kinda boned already.
Absolutley. Lets see how they go against Wales. We know were playing shite....but there is always that frisson of first test...new series....blank sheet of paper. The pysch coaching will be crucial. lets just hope EJ does the the pysch a bit better than calling them all a bunch of c**ts.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:46 pm
by Puja
I don't think the Wales game will give us much of a guideline - it's going to be a shadow side and Wales should really beat them without too much trouble.
Puja
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:36 am
by Oakboy
'Bath owner Bruce Craig calls Eddie Jones 'cynical' as training methods dispute gets ugly.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... g-methods/
I think Jones has lost the plot. He is really backing himself into a corner where winning is his only defence.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:34 am
by Mellsblue
RFU are claiming that their analysis shows Eng training is leading to no more injuries than Prem club training. Bath do seem to be on the wrong end of it numbers wise so I can see Craig’s point.
Jones does have a point that Craig is hardly an expert in the subject.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:22 pm
by morepork
Aren't the Eng training injuries more down to people tripping over Eddies shyty little dog?
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:08 pm
by Raggs
Some look like they were potentially reckless, like Sam Jones. Others look like it's just one of those things, like Marcus Smith kicking the ground during kicking practice...
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:34 pm
by Which Tyler
Given Bath's injury list over the last 2 seasons, Bruce needs to shut his hole
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:36 pm
by Puja
Which Tyler wrote:Given Bath's injury list over the last 2 seasons, Bruce needs to shut his hole
I was just thinking that. Bath have had an awful lot of injuries of late and very few of them were with England, so I don't really think Craig is in a position to be criticising someone else's training regimen.
Incidentally, it turns out that Billy V's hamstring was due neither to his innate body shape nor Eddie's training, but to f*cking about with an Aussie Rules ball:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44333688
Puja
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:05 am
by Spiffy
Puja wrote:Which Tyler wrote:Given Bath's injury list over the last 2 seasons, Bruce needs to shut his hole
I was just thinking that. Bath have had an awful lot of injuries of late and very few of them were with England, so I don't really think Craig is in a position to be criticising someone else's training regimen.
Incidentally, it turns out that Billy V's hamstring was due neither to his innate body shape nor Eddie's training, but to f*cking about with an Aussie Rules ball:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44333688
Puja
Why would playing about with an Auzzie Rules ball be any different to playing about with any other kind of ball? Billy is about 20 st and built like a brick shiithouse. This is not a case of the princess and the pea. Are these lads made of paper or what?
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:33 am
by Puja
Spiffy wrote:Puja wrote:Which Tyler wrote:Given Bath's injury list over the last 2 seasons, Bruce needs to shut his hole
I was just thinking that. Bath have had an awful lot of injuries of late and very few of them were with England, so I don't really think Craig is in a position to be criticising someone else's training regimen.
Incidentally, it turns out that Billy V's hamstring was due neither to his innate body shape nor Eddie's training, but to f*cking about with an Aussie Rules ball:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44333688
Puja
Why would playing about with an Auzzie Rules ball be any different to playing about with any other kind of ball? Billy is about 20 st and built like a brick shiithouse. This is not a case of the princess and the pea. Are these lads made of paper or what?
Depends. Was he doing what's known in my club as "aimless kicking" where the forwards punt a ball as hard as they can with little to no technique and without having warmed up or stretched? If so, I can completely see how a hamstring strain might have occurred.
Puja
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:36 am
by twitchy
I didn't realise quite how bad our record was.
My main interest will be in seeing some progress in attack and hopefully keeping key players fit and healthy. I'm not expecting any thing other than a loss for the series.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:05 am
by Oakboy
twitchy wrote:I didn't realise quite how bad our record was.
My main interest will be in seeing some progress in attack and hopefully keeping key players fit and healthy. I'm not expecting any thing other than a loss for the series.
So, looking ahead, what do you think of our RWC chances? At least we haven't peaked too soon!
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:34 am
by Which Tyler
Oakboy wrote:twitchy wrote:I didn't realise quite how bad our record was.
My main interest will be in seeing some progress in attack and hopefully keeping key players fit and healthy. I'm not expecting any thing other than a loss for the series.
So, looking ahead, what do you think of our RWC chances? At least we haven't peaked too soon!
For me, that depends on whether Eddie's beating now, to peak later actually works (which it should if they were getting rested at the right time) or just makes them jaded and injury prone - it's a delicate balancing act, and we won't know until the RWC warm-ups.
Get that right, and we've a good shot at reaching the final; get it wrong and we won't make the semi.s
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:44 pm
by Mikey Brown
Oakboy wrote:twitchy wrote:I didn't realise quite how bad our record was.
My main interest will be in seeing some progress in attack and hopefully keeping key players fit and healthy. I'm not expecting any thing other than a loss for the series.
So, looking ahead, what do you think of our RWC chances? At least we haven't peaked too soon!
Unless it turns out we peaked in early 2016.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:00 pm
by Oakboy
Mikey Brown wrote:Oakboy wrote:twitchy wrote:I didn't realise quite how bad our record was.
My main interest will be in seeing some progress in attack and hopefully keeping key players fit and healthy. I'm not expecting any thing other than a loss for the series.
So, looking ahead, what do you think of our RWC chances? At least we haven't peaked too soon!
Unless it turns out we peaked in early 2016.
That is no joke. Whatever Jones did to establish an exceptional team spirit such that tight games were won he appears not to be able to reproduce it. What I saw in the 6N was a team that had lost its total belief in the cause. Instead of winning games that we should have lost, we lost games that we should have won.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:52 pm
by Mikey Brown
You could argue before kickoff we should have won some of them, but I can’t think of many where you’d say that once you saw how they were performing.
That’s not to disagree with anything else you’ve said. But there is this rather odd sense of entitlement to beating every except NZ (and maybe Ireland) without breaking a sweat.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:06 pm
by Oakboy
I would not say 'without breaking sweat' but our pool of players should produce a team capable of beating everyone except those two - IF well prepared and coached.
Re: What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:13 pm
by I R Geech
Contrast the intensity and surety of purpose that England played with around the time of the series in Straya to the aimless and mindless faffing that they have shown recently. What has happened?