RugbyRebels

Regulations state any England World Cup squad member should be rested for the two-Test trip, unless they have fewer than 20 match involvements this season.

A match involvement is defined as any appearance of more than 20 minutes in a game.

That should rule out a significant number of the WC squad, though i guess matters will get complicated if players are rested by their clubs or pick up an injury.

fivepointer wrote:Regulations state any England World Cup squad member should be rested for the two-Test trip, unless they have fewer than 20 match involvements this season.

A match involvement is defined as any appearance of more than 20 minutes in a game.

That should rule out a significant number of the WC squad, though i guess matters will get complicated if players are rested by their clubs or pick up an injury.

That puts a few on the plane, presumably: Billy, Watson, Wilson, Nowell, Coka? Props will be the big issue, perhaps. Does Mako qualify on those rules?

fivepointer wrote:Regulations state any England World Cup squad member should be rested for the two-Test trip, unless they have fewer than 20 match involvements this season.

A match involvement is defined as any appearance of more than 20 minutes in a game.

That should rule out a significant number of the WC squad, though i guess matters will get complicated if players are rested by their clubs or pick up an injury.

Where'd you see that? Excellent news if they stick to it.

Does the 20 match involvements this season include internationals (and the RWC itself, more pertinently)?

Puja

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51809786

Apparently it's all matches since August, international amd club combined, which I think rules out almost all of our starting XV, with the possible exception of BillyV.

Puja

Puja wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51809786

Apparently it's all matches since August, international amd club combined, which I think rules out almost all of our starting XV, with the possible exception of BillyV.

All stats courtesy of Statbunker

Watson's on 14 (almost certain to add another 9)
Billy's on 14 "involvements" in that case (no idea when he's due back)
McConnochie's on 12 (almost certain to add another 9) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible - but probably not, he's missed his RWC chance.
Slade is on 10 (almost certain to add another 11) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible
Nowell is on 10 (almost certain to add another 11) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible
Coka's on 5 (will be under, but may not be fit in time)

I don't think there's anyone else worth checking is there?

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51809786

Apparently it's all matches since August, international amd club combined, which I think rules out almost all of our starting XV, with the possible exception of BillyV.

All stats courtesy of Statbunker

Watson's on 14 (almost certain to add another 9)
Billy's on 14 "involvements" in that case (no idea when he's due back)
McConnochie's on 12 (almost certain to add another 9) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible - but probably not, he's missed his RWC chance.
Slade is on 10 (almost certain to add another 11) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible
Nowell is on 10 (almost certain to add another 11) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible
Coka's on 5 (will be under, but may not be fit in time)

I don't think there's anyone else worth checking is there?

Important ones for me:

Heinz: 14 so far
Youngs: 20
Ford: 20
Farrell: 19
Manu: 13
Daly: 20
Mako: 13
Underhil: 14
Launch: 10

As WT has said, most our starting XV is out, but there's a few there that might make it in.

We'll be taking new 9s which is good. New backrow, which maybe interesting, though it would be nice if we could have some senior members there too.

Backline is going to look very new, pack should still have some experience I reckon.

Wilson, too , no? He’s hardly played

Stom wrote:Wilson, too , no? He’s hardly played

Didn't really figure him as frontline, but he should definitely be involved, very useful experienced head there I reckon.

Are we in danger of underestimating or insulting Japan?

Raggs wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51809786

Apparently it's all matches since August, international amd club combined, which I think rules out almost all of our starting XV, with the possible exception of BillyV.

All stats courtesy of Statbunker

Watson's on 14 (almost certain to add another 9)
Billy's on 14 "involvements" in that case (no idea when he's due back)
McConnochie's on 12 (almost certain to add another 9) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible - but probably not, he's missed his RWC chance.
Slade is on 10 (almost certain to add another 11) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible
Nowell is on 10 (almost certain to add another 11) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible
Coka's on 5 (will be under, but may not be fit in time)

I don't think there's anyone else worth checking is there?

Important ones for me:

Heinz: 14 so far
Youngs: 20
Ford: 20
Farrell: 19
Manu: 13
Daly: 20
Mako: 13
Underhil: 14
Launch: 10

As WT has said, most our starting XV is out, but there's a few there that might make it in.

We'll be taking new 9s which is good. New backrow, which maybe interesting, though it would be nice if we could have some senior members there too.

Backline is going to look very new, pack should still have some experience I reckon.

Manu's actually pretty likely to go, I would say. Leicester have 9-11 games left in their season (depending on how we get on in the Challenge Cup). If we lose our quarter final to Castres combined with Manu getting a 4 match ban for his red, that leaves him on a maximum of 19 games for the season.

Puja

Oakboy wrote:Are we in danger of underestimating or insulting Japan?

I very much doubt it, but we can't stop clubs playing their players, and the 6N is more important.

Oakboy wrote:Are we in danger of underestimating or insulting Japan?

Yep. Although I am happier having it as a definite quantifiable rule rather than just the ineffable decision-making of Eddie, as that largely rules out deliberately insulting.

Still, we are blessed with incredible strength in depth and a similar shadow side took down Argentina three years ago, so we should at least be competitive in Japan.

Puja

It's frustrating that having been keen to rest both Farrell and Ford for a while, we really need to look at 9/12 options which is a far from ideal time to also test a new young fly-half. Once it becomes a full A side it doesn't seem like players are able to stake the same kind of claim to a starting shirt.

I'd really like to have seen the pack look something like Genge, LCD, Stuart, Launch, Ewels, Wilson, Willis/Curry, Dombrandt/Mercer/Simmonds but I'm not sure that front row will be possible?

Mikey Brown wrote:It's frustrating that having been keen to rest both Farrell and Ford for a while, we really need to look at 9/12 options which is a far from ideal time to also test a new young fly-half. Once it becomes a full A side it doesn't seem like players are able to stake the same kind of claim to a starting shirt.

I'd really like to have seen the pack look something like Genge, LCD, Stuart, Launch, Ewels, Wilson, Willis/Curry, Dombrandt/Mercer/Simmonds but I'm not sure that front row will be possible?

Genge is the one I'm most concerned about, but has Eddie actually brought him on with more than 20 minutes in any of this 6N?

Puja

That's a good point. You'd like to think Eddie has thought about all this ahead of time.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:It's frustrating that having been keen to rest both Farrell and Ford for a while, we really need to look at 9/12 options which is a far from ideal time to also test a new young fly-half. Once it becomes a full A side it doesn't seem like players are able to stake the same kind of claim to a starting shirt.

I'd really like to have seen the pack look something like Genge, LCD, Stuart, Launch, Ewels, Wilson, Willis/Curry, Dombrandt/Mercer/Simmonds but I'm not sure that front row will be possible?

Genge is the one I'm most concerned about, but has Eddie actually brought him on with more than 20 minutes in any of this 6N?

Puja

Don’t forget Genge has his hands full as the Team’s Director of Communications and Media Relations

Marler can take care of that. I think he'll be available.

Mikey Brown wrote:That's a good point. You'd like to think Eddie has thought about all this ahead of time.

He has not. Genge has come on to play over 20 minutes in all of our games, with the exception of Wales where his yellow excused him. He's on 14 games, so unless Leicester actively hold him back, there's no way he's going to Japan.

LCD likewise is probably out, with 18 games this season.

Although I note that the story on Ben Youngs has now been updated to note that "the relevant parties [RFU, RPA, Prem] are able to make 'individual exceptions' to the welfare policy." Laying the groundwork for Farrell's selection, I see.

Puja

Ben Youngs specifically? WTF? Are we just going to continue pretending 9 isn't an issue?

That's a shame for Genge, and I'd say a black mark against EJ.

Mikey Brown wrote:Ben Youngs specifically? WTF? Are we just going to continue pretending 9 isn't an issue?

That's a shame for Genge, and I'd say a black mark against EJ.

I don't believe it's being specifically invoked for Youngs; it's just a throwaway paragraph in the BBC article. Although, if Uncle Eddie still doesn't believe any of the young 9s can be trusted, who knows...?

Genge's problem is less Eddie this 6N and more Leicester refusing to rotate, combined with him being a big feature in the RWC warmups.

ETA. Ludlam's another fringe player likely to get caught - currently on 18 games this season.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:All stats courtesy of Statbunker

Watson's on 14 (almost certain to add another 9)
Billy's on 14 "involvements" in that case (no idea when he's due back)
McConnochie's on 12 (almost certain to add another 9) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible - but probably not, he's missed his RWC chance.
Slade is on 10 (almost certain to add another 11) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible
Nowell is on 10 (almost certain to add another 11) May be worth considering holding back from a couple to keep him eligible
Coka's on 5 (will be under, but may not be fit in time)

I don't think there's anyone else worth checking is there?

Important ones for me:

Heinz: 14 so far
Youngs: 20
Ford: 20
Farrell: 19
Manu: 13
Daly: 20
Mako: 13
Underhil: 14
Launch: 10

As WT has said, most our starting XV is out, but there's a few there that might make it in.

We'll be taking new 9s which is good. New backrow, which maybe interesting, though it would be nice if we could have some senior members there too.

Backline is going to look very new, pack should still have some experience I reckon.

Manu's actually pretty likely to go, I would say. Leicester have 9-11 games left in their season (depending on how we get on in the Challenge Cup). If we lose our quarter final to Castres combined with Manu getting a 4 match ban for his red, that leaves him on a maximum of 19 games for the season.

Puja

I wouldn't take Manu, some more conditioning over the summer would keep him in good shape for the next couple of years.

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Raggs wrote:
Important ones for me:

Heinz: 14 so far
Youngs: 20
Ford: 20
Farrell: 19
Manu: 13
Daly: 20
Mako: 13
Underhil: 14
Launch: 10

As WT has said, most our starting XV is out, but there's a few there that might make it in.

We'll be taking new 9s which is good. New backrow, which maybe interesting, though it would be nice if we could have some senior members there too.

Backline is going to look very new, pack should still have some experience I reckon.

Manu's actually pretty likely to go, I would say. Leicester have 9-11 games left in their season (depending on how we get on in the Challenge Cup). If we lose our quarter final to Castres combined with Manu getting a 4 match ban for his red, that leaves him on a maximum of 19 games for the season.

Puja

I wouldn't take Manu, some more conditioning over the summer would keep him in good shape for the next couple of years.

I wouldn't either (not least because it's an ideal opportunity to play Marchant), but do we trust Eddie?

Puja

Being slightly unrealistic/facetious but I wouldn't complain if we took the squad that played the babas in the summer. That match was a ton of fun to watch and had a good few players that will make the national side in years to come

Ah yes. Remember being excited that Dombrandt absolutely nailed his audition for the RWC squad.

Russ Petty seems to suggest that the warm-ups don't count?