RugbyRebels

ouch, could be awks.

On the positive front, be good to see Freeman, Joe, Johnny back, and Smith with a lump alongside him at this level; also as Puja says, Alex Cunderhill will be interesting. Second row is well iffy.

Watching just so I can hear someone on daytime telly repeatedly say ‘bugger it’.

Banquo wrote:On the positive front, be good to see Freeman, Joe, Johnny back, and Smith with a lump alongside him at this level; also as Puja says, Alex Cunderhill will be interesting. Second row is well iffy.

If you’re calling Mark Atkinson a lump we could fall out.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:On the positive front, be good to see Freeman, Joe, Johnny back, and Smith with a lump alongside him at this level; also as Puja says, Alex Cunderhill will be interesting. Second row is well iffy.

If you’re calling Mark Atkinson a lump we could fall out.

slow lump but effective

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:On the positive front, be good to see Freeman, Joe, Johnny back, and Smith with a lump alongside him at this level; also as Puja says, Alex Cunderhill will be interesting. Second row is well iffy.

If you’re calling Mark Atkinson a lump we could fall out.

slow lump but effective

That’s better.

Would have been nice to see Arundell on the bench as opposed to giving Nowell the chance to injure himself pre tour.

Pack selection is all a bit meh really. Nothing new or exciting there. Would have liked to see some more youngsters given a go, particularly off the bench. It's great Willis is back but could have Clarke or Hill not taken Lawes spot. Not sure what we learn from having him there.

It all feels a bit safe like the RFU have told Eddie that they need a solid showing at HQ for blah blah inflate their ego blah blah prove they were right to stick with him. Call it an England development side and just let loose, outside of front row (maybe tight five) under 25s only and license to throw the ball around Baabaas style would have been far more fun.

Atkinson I just do not get in any way shape of form.

Puja wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Hooker is quite interesting. Walker comes from nowhere and starts. Blamire not even on the bench. I happen to think Walker deserves an opportunity but Jones hasnt even looked at him up until now.
No Stuart at tight head. Understand Collier being involved and he's better as a starter, but Schickerling on the bench is a bit of a surprise. Stuart injured perhaps?
Care's involvement signals to me he's going to Australia. Jones wants one experienced SH out there.
I think a half decent performance from Atkinson will see him tour.

In fairness, Walker was absolutely nowhere at the start of the season and was marked down in the Auterac mould of "Really promising, but is he really joining *another* club after failing to fulfil his potential again?" He's had a phenomenal season, but he is very new onto being anywhere near the international radar at all.

Hadn't spotted no Stuart at all. Very surprising - might be injured or might be paying the price for a rubbish Bath campaign.

Puja

I'd rather Ewels paid the price for that. Quite happy for him to pay the price for Worcester's and Newcastle's too, if I keeps him out of a few more squads.

Tom Moore wrote:

Puja wrote:Hadn't spotted no Stuart at all. Very surprising - might be injured or might be paying the price for a rubbish Bath campaign.

Puja

I'd rather Ewels paid the price for that. Quite happy for him to pay the price for Worcester's and Newcastle's too, if I keeps him out of a few more squads.

Good point, well made.

Puja

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Atkinson I just do not get in any way shape of form.

Good club 12, the sort of unit in his prime that would have helped Smith in a poor man's Esterhuizen sort of way- but he's well past his prime now, so no idea why he's been picked for this game. I understand why his type of player would be picked for Smith (and indeed Ford).

Puja wrote:Barbarians team out as well:

Spring; Penaud, Vakatawa, Botia, Niniashvili; Hastoy, Couilloud; Gros, Bourgarit, Gigashvili, Kruis, Skelton, Cretin, Ollivon (c), Tanga

Replacements: Priso, Tolofua, Falatea, Lavault, Le Garrec, Carbonel, Macalou, Vili

So Botia will play centre - would have liked to see him play 7, but may still do during the match. Laclayat, the shuffling prop with the dummy is now a travelling reserve.

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Atkinson I just do not get in any way shape of form.

Good club 12, the sort of unit in his prime that would have helped Smith in a poor man's Esterhuizen sort of way- but he's well past his prime now, so no idea why he's been picked for this game. I understand why his type of player would be picked for Smith (and indeed Ford).

Mind, if we're planning on playing a two fly-halves shape with Smith floating in behind Fazlet, why on earth are we playing Atkinson? Surely Bailey would be better for preparing us for the tour, even while not being a better player yet?

Puja

I think you're all very mean about Atkinson, he's got a great all round skill set, with both playmaking and boshing abilities. He's like a much, much less good Ma'a Nonu.

In other idle thoughts, why do England not hand out caps for these games? Other countries do or at least have done for games against the Baabaas in the past, so there's nothing to stop them within World Rugby's rules I imagine. I'm not saying they should as it's obviously not a proper international, but if they did then the likes of Haley, Sheedy, Tompkins and Williams would all be tied to England rather than pulling on the shirts of rival countries (although it's a chicken/egg situation for some I suspect - Sheedy I imagine was happy to play for England against the Baabaas as he knew it didn't tie him down but might have rejected the offer of a full cap).

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Atkinson I just do not get in any way shape of form.

Good club 12, the sort of unit in his prime that would have helped Smith in a poor man's Esterhuizen sort of way- but he's well past his prime now, so no idea why he's been picked for this game. I understand why his type of player would be picked for Smith (and indeed Ford).

Mind, if we're planning on playing a two fly-halves shape with Smith floating in behind Fazlet, why on earth are we playing Atkinson? Surely Bailey would be better for preparing us for the tour, even while not being a better player yet?

Puja

all true, though you don't need a two fly half shape to have Smith looping- Dingwall, say is a good enough passer to do this. I actually can't remember if Quins do this anyway, old age and all that; the shape of midfield is very Quinsy, obviously with two Quins and a poor man's Esterhuizen there. Must admit I much prefer that sort of midfield shape than the two fly half version, esp if fly half 2 is no running threat. May have mentioned before.

(Eddie is probably toying with alternate shapes, hoping Manu will be fit to play 12)

SDHoneymonster wrote:I think you're all very mean about Atkinson, he's got a great all round skill set, with both playmaking and boshing abilities. He's like a much, much less good Ma'a Nonu.

In other idle thoughts, why do England not hand out caps for these games? Other countries do or at least have done for games against the Baabaas in the past, so there's nothing to stop them within World Rugby's rules I imagine. I'm not saying they should as it's obviously not a proper international, but if they did then the likes of Haley, Sheedy, Tompkins and Williams would all be tied to England rather than pulling on the shirts of rival countries (although it's a chicken/egg situation for some I suspect - Sheedy I imagine was happy to play for England against the Baabaas as he knew it didn't tie him down but might have rejected the offer of a full cap).

Not sure about his playmaking- he does a good wraparound-, but he's a good bosher at club level, but years past his best and any intl sell by date. I like that sort of player, but need someone who is a bit quicker and more mobile.

I think Atkinson can play the 2nd 5/8th role if needs be. He played 10 at age grade, including Eng u20, and through his ‘senior’ career until he moved to 12 whilst at Bedford where, given its Rayer, his passing skills were his most used asset, and I’ve seen him used in that role at Glos…. granted others will have seen more. Whether he can do it at test level, albeit the Baabaas*, is another question.
He’s not the quickest or most agile so he can certainly replicate Farrell in those respects

Wtf, does my autocorrect turn Baabaas to Barbara’s but two to Te’o. Steve Jobs is a knob, may he burn in hell.

SDHoneymonster wrote:In other idle thoughts, why do England not hand out caps for these games? Other countries do or at least have done for games against the Baabaas in the past, so there's nothing to stop them within World Rugby's rules I imagine. I'm not saying they should as it's obviously not a proper international, but if they did then the likes of Haley, Sheedy, Tompkins and Williams would all be tied to England rather than pulling on the shirts of rival countries (although it's a chicken/egg situation for some I suspect - Sheedy I imagine was happy to play for England against the Baabaas as he knew it didn't tie him down but might have rejected the offer of a full cap).

TBH, at the time, I think all of those had legitimate ambitions to play for England and would've accepted full caps. I'd be in favour of it counting, but the eligibility rules on "next best teams" continue to be bananas.

Puja

And to think I used to do a little poo in my pants when I saw Sheridan running at me. At least I had my flanker to help, imagine trying to mark both of them one-on-one.

Mellsblue wrote:

And to think I used to do a little poo in my pants when I saw Sheridan running at me. At least I had my flanker to help, imagine trying to mark both of them one-on-one.

Thats cool.

but I'm not sure how marking 2 players one-on-one works...

Which Tyler wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

And to think I used to do a little poo in my pants when I saw Sheridan running at me. At least I had my flanker to help, imagine trying to mark both of them one-on-one.

Thats cool.

but I'm not sure how marking 2 players one-on-one works...

One centre marks his oppo centre and the second centre marks his oppo centre, those either side are then marking their oppo and can’t help, ie you’ve got mark Botia one on one knowing his mate next to him is also an athletic freak. Whereas I used to have the open side charged solely with helping me (attempt to) tackle Sheridan as he picked off the back of the scrum.

Mellsblue wrote: One centre marks his oppo centre and the second centre marks his oppo centre, those either side are then marking their oppo and can’t help, ie you’ve got mark Botia one on one knowing his mate next to him is also an athletic freak. Whereas I used to have the open side charged solely with helping me (attempt to) tackle Sheridan as he picked off the back of the scrum.

Two-on-two you mean?

Bloody pedants!

Which Tyler wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: One centre marks his oppo centre and the second centre marks his oppo centre, those either side are then marking their oppo and can’t help, ie you’ve got mark Botia one on one knowing his mate next to him is also an athletic freak. Whereas I used to have the open side charged solely with helping me (attempt to) tackle Sheridan as he picked off the back of the scrum.

Two-on-two you mean?

No. I’m talking about a single player’s experience, ie I used hate trying to tackle Sheridan with some help and without worrying about his teammates. Facing Botia one-on-one whilst also knowing Vaka could cut some ridiculous line and come into your channel…..

Mellsblue wrote: And to think I used to do a little poo in my pants when I saw Sheridan running at me. At least I had my flanker to help, imagine trying to mark both of them one-on-one.

Andrew Sheridan I assume? When did you play against him Mells?