England Training Squad - Now Featuring Both New and Old Messiahs

[Banquo]

We are playing Australia they aren't renowned for their tight five.

1. Genge - our best loosehead
2. McGuigan - been on stellar form for Newcastle, 14 tries with only Malins scoring more
3. Stuart - our second best tighthead
4. Launchbury - tried and tested international
5. Isiekwe - lineout technician - admittedly he'd be the one most likely dropped in a shake up of back/second row.

Are we likely to see a pacey game in Australia? It's their winter the weather can be pretty changeable. The backrow should be fine and we could adjust the bench options to give us more pace there for the second half.

Back three should be fine. Steward is rock solid, May is rapid and Big Joe is a try scoring unit. May has the experience and knows Steward so they should be able to cover well enough.

As it stands I'd expect us to take Farrell and George with us to Australia minimum. I think Eddie will want to work on the Smith/Farrell combination and George will add significantly to the tight five. Whether Itoje and Lawes go I don't know, there is an argument for them having the summer to prepare for next season given they've both had issues post 6N.

....'our best/our second best' still aren't frightening anyone- which was the point, Aus or otherwise; that back row you have picked definitely lack pace/mobility at test level, as good as they are individually, and yes, I'd think Aus would want it pacy. On the back three, again it wasn't about the individuals but about their cohesiveness- imo it would lack leadership at the back......and pretty iffy kicking ability, and two aren't match fit. Just looks bang average as a team, frankly. Guts maybe, gas, less so

Moot argument for me though, as I wouldn't leave George, Sinckler, Itoje or Curry behind.

Wouldn't scare anybody? Well I doubt any pro player is scared. Genge and Stuart would walk into the Aussie front row tomorrow. Particularly Genge on current form.

Who would you add to the back three for experience? Where's the experienced wingers lining up to step in?

For me one of the major issues Eddie found when Sarries went down was the lack of options within the squad when the go to options aren't match fit. Second row is a major issue currently because it's Itoje and A N Other. We have no idea who that other is. Flankers behind Lawes and Curry is a complete guessing game. 15 man teams don't win a world cup, squads win world cups. You need depth and you can't just keep relying on the same players particularly when some of them look like they are taped together coming into the end of the season.

Think you are taking it a tad literally on the front five....its just not a unit that is going to dominate anyone, prob even Australia. One out of five walking into the Aus time says much
Where did I say 'experience' in the back three was lacking? I said leadership, back three skills and cohesiveness. May has improved, but his all round rugby ability is still a little lacking, and ditto Joe C....and both have been out for a long time. I would concede the list isn't huge, but the balance of skills doesn't look right to me. I think you need another 'footballer', as it were, with Steward, and Daly would still be an option for me. I'd actually like to see Arundell get a go, running against the tide of my other thinking .
on your last point I agree, but don't chuck em in at the same time as ditching Itoje, Curry, George, and Sinckler, say; Willis must be next in line, plus you have Underhill, Billy V hanging about as well.
Genge, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury/Lawes/Hill, Curry, Willis, Dombrandt/Billy, I agree the backs is harder

[FKAS]

I see Daly as a considerable step down on either May or Big Joe to be honest. He's a good versatile player but the other two are much better wingers. May developed a good all round game and the only question for me would be his fitness but it he can play the next two games he should be fine. Cokanasiga is match fit and scoring tries behind a beaten Bath pack he'll be fine. Personally I'd back that combination to work.

Arundell I'd got on the bench, he's an unpolished diamond currently so starting him might not be the best idea but his footwork Vs tired opposition is very effective or at least has been with LI so far.

I don't think we have to ditch any of the forwards but currently we have some positions where there's a big drop off in experience between starter and back up. If Sinckler picks up a long term injury before the world cup Stuart has a handful of starts just about and Heyes has a couple of caps Vs international minnows. This is the last time to really address that before we have to start prepping for a world cup season. This summer matters little in the grand scheme, next summer has to be the focus.

We might not have a lot of choice what with Curry, Lawes and Itoje missing chunks pre 6N with injury. They might need minor ops or rest in the summer. Sinckler isn't playing for Bristol currently so we might not have much choice. I think with Genge and Launchbury on there you've got enough international experience and class to bring on the others. Those around them can be tweaked.

[Banquo]

I see Daly as a considerable step down on either May or Big Joe to be honest. He's a good versatile player but the other two are much better wingers. May developed a good all round game and the only question for me would be his fitness but it he can play the next two games he should be fine. Cokanasiga is match fit and scoring tries behind a beaten Bath pack he'll be fine. Personally I'd back that combination to work.

Arundell I'd got on the bench, he's an unpolished diamond currently so starting him might not be the best idea but his footwork Vs tired opposition is very effective or at least has been with LI so far.

I don't think we have to ditch any of the forwards but currently we have some positions where there's a big drop off in experience between starter and back up. If Sinckler picks up a long term injury before the world cup Stuart has a handful of starts just about and Heyes has a couple of caps Vs international minnows. This is the last time to really address that before we have to start prepping for a world cup season. This summer matters little in the grand scheme, next summer has to be the focus.

We might not have a lot of choice what with Curry, Lawes and Itoje missing chunks pre 6N with injury. They might need minor ops or rest in the summer. Sinckler isn't playing for Bristol currently so we might not have much choice. I think with Genge and Launchbury on there you've got enough international experience and class to bring on the others. Those around them can be tweaked.

I disagree on British Lion Daly being a 'considerable step down' on an aging May and a just returned Coka, but hey ho. Obviously you'd back that combo to work as you've picked them, but I have the same reservations as when we started. Arundell I agree on, and as before, not really compelling options in the 'back five' backs.

...but this is all irrelevant unless the pack is up to it, and I want to make sure they are and the front five you've gone with just doesn't look good enough to me, even for Aus. We MAY not have choice, but we need to put our strongest forwards out so the marginals have the best opportunity to do well. Not sure Genge and Launchbury offer enough class to compensate for heft or ability around them.

Fundamentally we differ on the principle of selecting the best available for the tour tests and that's fine.

[BenHK]

We are playing Australia they aren't renowned for their tight five.

1. Genge - our best loosehead
2. McGuigan - been on stellar form for Newcastle, 14 tries with only Malins scoring more
3. Stuart - our second best tighthead
4. Launchbury - tried and tested international
5. Isiekwe - lineout technician - admittedly he'd be the one most likely dropped in a shake up of back/second row.

Are we likely to see a pacey game in Australia? It's their winter the weather can be pretty changeable. The backrow should be fine and we could adjust the bench options to give us more pace there for the second half.

Back three should be fine. Steward is rock solid, May is rapid and Big Joe is a try scoring unit. May has the experience and knows Steward so they should be able to cover well enough.

As it stands I'd expect us to take Farrell and George with us to Australia minimum. I think Eddie will want to work on the Smith/Farrell combination and George will add significantly to the tight five. Whether Itoje and Lawes go I don't know, there is an argument for them having the summer to prepare for next season given they've both had issues post 6N.

....'our best/our second best' still aren't frightening anyone- which was the point, Aus or otherwise; that back row you have picked definitely lack pace/mobility at test level, as good as they are individually, and yes, I'd think Aus would want it pacy. On the back three, again it wasn't about the individuals but about their cohesiveness- imo it would lack leadership at the back......and pretty iffy kicking ability, and two aren't match fit. Just looks bang average as a team, frankly. Guts maybe, gas, less so

Moot argument for me though, as I wouldn't leave George, Sinckler, Itoje or Curry behind.

Wouldn't scare anybody? Well I doubt any pro player is scared. Genge and Stuart would walk into the Aussie front row tomorrow. Particularly Genge on current form.

Who would you add to the back three for experience? Where's the experienced wingers lining up to step in?

For me one of the major issues Eddie found when Sarries went down was the lack of options within the squad when the go to options aren't match fit. Second row is a major issue currently because it's Itoje and A N Other. We have no idea who that other is. Flankers behind Lawes and Curry is a complete guessing game. 15 man teams don't win a world cup, squads win world cups. You need depth and you can't just keep relying on the same players particularly when some of them look like they are taped together coming into the end of the season.

If Tom Curry were to be rested, why not replace him with his twin?

[Puja]

I disagree on British Lion Daly being a 'considerable step down' on an aging May and a just returned Coka, but hey ho.

I would take a moment to note that there's all of 2 and a bit years between 32 year old May and 30 this year Daly. It does all depend on how May comes back from his injury and I don't want to count any chickens, but I'd take May every day of the week if he's properly recovered.

Interesting that no-one's mentioned Watson, who is several weeks ahead of May in recovery and has the virtue of being fit to play now, rather than May's "just returned to full training" status. I'd say he's more likely than May, just on sheer timescales.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Big Joe is one of those players who gets better the less he plays.

[Mikey Brown]

....'our best/our second best' still aren't frightening anyone- which was the point, Aus or otherwise; that back row you have picked definitely lack pace/mobility at test level, as good as they are individually, and yes, I'd think Aus would want it pacy. On the back three, again it wasn't about the individuals but about their cohesiveness- imo it would lack leadership at the back......and pretty iffy kicking ability, and two aren't match fit. Just looks bang average as a team, frankly. Guts maybe, gas, less so

Moot argument for me though, as I wouldn't leave George, Sinckler, Itoje or Curry behind.

Wouldn't scare anybody? Well I doubt any pro player is scared. Genge and Stuart would walk into the Aussie front row tomorrow. Particularly Genge on current form.

Who would you add to the back three for experience? Where's the experienced wingers lining up to step in?

For me one of the major issues Eddie found when Sarries went down was the lack of options within the squad when the go to options aren't match fit. Second row is a major issue currently because it's Itoje and A N Other. We have no idea who that other is. Flankers behind Lawes and Curry is a complete guessing game. 15 man teams don't win a world cup, squads win world cups. You need depth and you can't just keep relying on the same players particularly when some of them look like they are taped together coming into the end of the season.

If Tom Curry were to be rested, why not replace him with his twin?

He's shit.

[Mikey Brown]

No wait, he wasn't good in training or he's not physical enough or something. I would have thought Eddie could get him at least close to what Tom offers, but who knows.

[Banquo]

I disagree on British Lion Daly being a 'considerable step down' on an aging May and a just returned Coka, but hey ho.

I would take a moment to note that there's all of 2 and a bit years between 32 year old May and 30 this year Daly. It does all depend on how May comes back from his injury and I don't want to count any chickens, but I'd take May every day of the week if he's properly recovered.

Interesting that no-one's mentioned Watson, who is several weeks ahead of May in recovery and has the virtue of being fit to play now, rather than May's "just returned to full training" status. I'd say he's more likely than May, just on sheer timescales.

Puja

Nearly 2.67 years or 9.2% of Daly's life to date - and on a serious note, that's a big difference in a backs age once they are over about 28- and I was putting him alongside FKAS's comments on both May and Joe. I'd also note that May was playing pretty poorly for England when he was last fit. As above, its a bit bald men fighting over a comb.....but one shouldnt allow Daly's iffiness at 15 cloud the fact that he is an excellent wing, albeit offering both more (skill) and less (mercurialness/pace) than May. Given the amount of kicking we now see, Daly offers a bit more help to Steward or Arundell.

I thought I'd mentioned watson, if not, I meant to . I guess a fit Nowell will be in the frame, ditto Malins; not that I'd pick the latter in the back 3.

[twitchy]

Aussie squad news.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 5aln4.html

The Wallabies’ campaign against England has been given a major boost with news that Japan-based trio Quade Cooper, Samu Kerevi and Marika Koroibete will be on deck for the July series.

[FKAS]

I disagree on British Lion Daly being a 'considerable step down' on an aging May and a just returned Coka, but hey ho.

I would take a moment to note that there's all of 2 and a bit years between 32 year old May and 30 this year Daly. It does all depend on how May comes back from his injury and I don't want to count any chickens, but I'd take May every day of the week if he's properly recovered.

Interesting that no-one's mentioned Watson, who is several weeks ahead of May in recovery and has the virtue of being fit to play now, rather than May's "just returned to full training" status. I'd say he's more likely than May, just on sheer timescales.

Puja

Nearly 2.67 years or 9.2% of Daly's life to date - and on a serious note, that's a big difference in a backs age once they are over about 28- and I was putting him alongside FKAS's comments on both May and Joe. I'd also note that May was playing pretty poorly for England when he was last fit. As above, its a bit bald men fighting over a comb.....but one shouldnt allow Daly's iffiness at 15 cloud the fact that he is an excellent wing, albeit offering both more (skill) and less (mercurialness/pace) than May. Given the amount of kicking we now see, Daly offers a bit more help to Steward or Arundell.

I thought I'd mentioned watson, if not, I meant to . I guess a fit Nowell will be in the frame, ditto Malins; not that I'd pick the latter in the back 3.

If Watson is back sooner than May that would be good for England and I'd have him in instead. Daly is often talked up but rarely delivers perhaps not helped by the fact he's been shifted between 13, wing and fullback. An ideal option for the 23 shirt but I think we have better wingers and Daly didn't shine in the 6N. If fit May is one of those and ditto Watson though Watson might be best served having a full pre season.

Mells, Big Joe has 5 tries in 7 games since coming back from injury and that's for Bath the worst team in the league by a distance. England need both another finishing option out wide and more power in the backs and he handily covers both.

[Banquo]

I would take a moment to note that there's all of 2 and a bit years between 32 year old May and 30 this year Daly. It does all depend on how May comes back from his injury and I don't want to count any chickens, but I'd take May every day of the week if he's properly recovered.

Interesting that no-one's mentioned Watson, who is several weeks ahead of May in recovery and has the virtue of being fit to play now, rather than May's "just returned to full training" status. I'd say he's more likely than May, just on sheer timescales.

Puja

Nearly 2.67 years or 9.2% of Daly's life to date - and on a serious note, that's a big difference in a backs age once they are over about 28- and I was putting him alongside FKAS's comments on both May and Joe. I'd also note that May was playing pretty poorly for England when he was last fit. As above, its a bit bald men fighting over a comb.....but one shouldnt allow Daly's iffiness at 15 cloud the fact that he is an excellent wing, albeit offering both more (skill) and less (mercurialness/pace) than May. Given the amount of kicking we now see, Daly offers a bit more help to Steward or Arundell.

I thought I'd mentioned watson, if not, I meant to . I guess a fit Nowell will be in the frame, ditto Malins; not that I'd pick the latter in the back 3.

If Watson is back sooner than May that would be good for England and I'd have him in instead. Daly is often talked up but rarely delivers perhaps not helped by the fact he's been shifted between 13, wing and fullback. An ideal option for the 23 shirt but I think we have better wingers and Daly didn't shine in the 6N. If fit May is one of those and ditto Watson though Watson might be best served having a full pre season.

Mells, Big Joe has 5 tries in 7 games since coming back from injury and that's for Bath the worst team in the league by a distance. England need both another finishing option out wide and more power in the backs and he handily covers both.

I think Daly gets a pretty unfair hard time, for the same reasons you highlight. He really was superb on the wing for the Lions, and in this kicking era offers a lot in a back three as a starter. Shining in the 6N....lol...who did. Anyway, I'd certainly have him in the squad, and it depends what you are looking for in your starters and who is playing inside them; for me, as before, May and Joe lack the skill between them I'd like to see in well rounded wingers...I'm a fan of both of them to be clear. If fit and firing Joe would be starting for me because of the power he'd bring, but then I think you need some more all round ability in the back three; in another era, I'd be much more about having one gas one power winger....but even then would still be looking at the all round skill levels.
BTW, tries aside- possibly meaningless given the nature of Baths play and what isn't on the line- how has Joe actually been playing; he seems to have been switching between starting and bench quite a bit.

[Tom Moore]

Without the Lions we can put out an alright side, the issue would be hooker with both George and LCD touring last summer. Eddie will want to work on the Smith and Faz 10/12 combination as well. If we went without any Lions then something like;

1. Genge
2. McGuigan
3. Stuart
4. Launchbury
5. Isiekwe
6. Chessum
7. J Willis
8. Dombrandt
9. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. May
12. Tuilagi
13. Marchant
14. J Cokanasiga
15. Steward

Bench - Blamire, Marler, Heyes, Ewels, Barbeary, Randall, Ford, Arundell

Perhaps could see a Ted Hill or a George Martin come in at 6 so that Chessum can go into the second row. Radwan or Hassell-Collins could come in if May isn't fit in time.

Any reason you're not going Underhillis in the back row so you could put Chessum in at lock? Or is it just assumption of Underhill inevitably injuring himself before the tests?

Puja

I'd completely forgotten he was fit again to be honest. That paired with Eddie's preference for a lock/6 hybrid on blindside swayed the backrow selection. Sort of makes sense if Launchbury is at 4 as he's not a particularly good lineout jumper so having both Isiekwe and Chessum jumping means that we can use Launchbury as a lifter, at the front or central to the mail drive. Lineout flexibility.

I suppose we could drop Ewels off the bench and go two backrow on there move Chessum into the second row in the second half and as the game breaks up have a more dynamic backrow having hopefully sapped the legs of the Aussie pack in the first with the power game.

To be honest you could drop Ewels off the bench, not replace him, and it'd be an improvement.

[Mellsblue]

Mells, Big Joe has 5 tries in 7 games since coming back from injury and that's for Bath the worst team in the league by a distance. England need both another finishing option out wide and more power in the backs and he handily covers both.

How’s his defence and ability under the high ball because, IMO, they were both way below test standard before he was perma-crocked. Plus, two of those tries were against Newcastle who, if memory serves, are in worse form than Bath.

[Spiffy]

Nearly 2.67 years or 9.2% of Daly's life to date - and on a serious note, that's a big difference in a backs age once they are over about 28- and I was putting him alongside FKAS's comments on both May and Joe. I'd also note that May was playing pretty poorly for England when he was last fit. As above, its a bit bald men fighting over a comb.....but one shouldnt allow Daly's iffiness at 15 cloud the fact that he is an excellent wing, albeit offering both more (skill) and less (mercurialness/pace) than May. Given the amount of kicking we now see, Daly offers a bit more help to Steward or Arundell.

I thought I'd mentioned watson, if not, I meant to . I guess a fit Nowell will be in the frame, ditto Malins; not that I'd pick the latter in the back 3.

If Watson is back sooner than May that would be good for England and I'd have him in instead. Daly is often talked up but rarely delivers perhaps not helped by the fact he's been shifted between 13, wing and fullback. An ideal option for the 23 shirt but I think we have better wingers and Daly didn't shine in the 6N. If fit May is one of those and ditto Watson though Watson might be best served having a full pre season.

Mells, Big Joe has 5 tries in 7 games since coming back from injury and that's for Bath the worst team in the league by a distance. England need both another finishing option out wide and more power in the backs and he handily covers both.

I think Daly gets a pretty unfair hard time, for the same reasons you highlight. He really was superb on the wing for the Lions, and in this kicking era offers a lot in a back three as a starter. Shining in the 6N....lol...who did. Anyway, I'd certainly have him in the squad, and it depends what you are looking for in your starters and who is playing inside them; for me, as before, May and Joe lack the skill between them I'd like to see in well rounded wingers...I'm a fan of both of them to be clear. If fit and firing Joe would be starting for me because of the power he'd bring, but then I think you need some more all round ability in the back three; in another era, I'd be much more about having one gas one power winger....but even then would still be looking at the all round skill levels.
BTW, tries aside- possibly meaningless given the nature of Baths play and what isn't on the line- how has Joe actually been playing; he seems to have been switching between starting and bench quite a bit.

To be fair to May, I think he developed some skills later in his career that were missing in the early days. He's been much less of a headless chicken in recent years than the mark 1 version. But apart from that, I regard him as a very good wing with real pace and a nose for the line. He has scored superb tries for England that I don't think any other wing would have managed (e.g. v. NZ, France and Ireland.) He's probably still close to being England's fastest wing and a proven finisher. I don't think his age means much if he can get fully fit. (For comparison, Keith Earls is recording great sprint times at 34.)

[Banquo]

If Watson is back sooner than May that would be good for England and I'd have him in instead. Daly is often talked up but rarely delivers perhaps not helped by the fact he's been shifted between 13, wing and fullback. An ideal option for the 23 shirt but I think we have better wingers and Daly didn't shine in the 6N. If fit May is one of those and ditto Watson though Watson might be best served having a full pre season.

Mells, Big Joe has 5 tries in 7 games since coming back from injury and that's for Bath the worst team in the league by a distance. England need both another finishing option out wide and more power in the backs and he handily covers both.

I think Daly gets a pretty unfair hard time, for the same reasons you highlight. He really was superb on the wing for the Lions, and in this kicking era offers a lot in a back three as a starter. Shining in the 6N....lol...who did. Anyway, I'd certainly have him in the squad, and it depends what you are looking for in your starters and who is playing inside them; for me, as before, May and Joe lack the skill between them I'd like to see in well rounded wingers...I'm a fan of both of them to be clear. If fit and firing Joe would be starting for me because of the power he'd bring, but then I think you need some more all round ability in the back three; in another era, I'd be much more about having one gas one power winger....but even then would still be looking at the all round skill levels.
BTW, tries aside- possibly meaningless given the nature of Baths play and what isn't on the line- how has Joe actually been playing; he seems to have been switching between starting and bench quite a bit.

To be fair to May, I think he developed some skills later in his career that were missing in the early days. He's been much less of a headless chicken in recent years than the mark 1 version. But apart from that, I regard him as a very good wing with real pace and a nose for the line. He has scored superb tries for England that I don't think any other wing would have managed (e.g. v. NZ, France and Ireland.) He's probably still close to being England's fastest wing and a proven finisher. I don't think his age means much if he can get fully fit. (For comparison, Keith Earls is recording great sprint times at 34.)

As I said, I'm a fan, and noted he had developed his all round skills to the level of adequate. He's a good wing- not in Earls class skill wise, but probably quicker- but he looked quite ropy on his last few times out for england (not alone to be fair). Age will mean a lot to May, as he's had a few injuries and relies more on gas; are Earls' time relatively good, and is he still Ireland's first choice? My point in any case was not solely v May, but the combo of he and Joe, as in fact you have highlighted! I guess the other point is how useful is a finisher to this England- creating opportunities is also an issue.

Again not really a long list of answers in fairness

[Timbo]

I suppose what will stand to May’s benefit is the fact that he is, by all accounts, absurdly professional in everything he does. Like, slightly deranged in terms of his prep, recovery, diet etc. I’d actually be pretty surprised if he didn’t come back in really incredible shape. Obviously that doesn’t necessarily mean his on pitch form will be as impressive, we’ll have to see.

[Banquo]

I suppose what will stand to May’s benefit is the fact that he is, by all accounts, absurdly professional in everything he does. Like, slightly deranged in terms of his prep, recovery, diet etc. I’d actually be pretty surprised if he didn’t come back in really incredible shape. Obviously that doesn’t necessarily mean his on pitch form will be as impressive, we’ll have to see.

interesting and good for him- his Hartbury peers talk of his less than cerebral persona, which is a juxtaposition to think about.....he's had a great career of careering, kudos

[Scrumhead]

Mells, Big Joe has 5 tries in 7 games since coming back from injury and that's for Bath the worst team in the league by a distance. England need both another finishing option out wide and more power in the backs and he handily covers both.

How’s his defence and ability under the high ball because, IMO, they were both way below test standard before he was perma-crocked. Plus, two of those tries were against Newcastle who, if memory serves, are in worse form than Bath.

Sometimes stats can be misleading. If you watch Big Joe’s tries this season, they’re all pretty much walk-ins in the corner that a decent Championship winger would have scored, not tries he’s done anything outstanding for.

He still looks ponderous to me and a few easy tries don’t actually equate to him being in good form. His defence and ability under the high ball are still below test standard.

I really wouldn’t dismiss Jonny May and TBH. As Timbo said, he’s super professional and really looks after himself. I also don’t think Keith Earls is superior in anything other than kicking? Unless we’re counting snarling aggression as a good quality?

[Banquo]

Mells, Big Joe has 5 tries in 7 games since coming back from injury and that's for Bath the worst team in the league by a distance. England need both another finishing option out wide and more power in the backs and he handily covers both.

How’s his defence and ability under the high ball because, IMO, they were both way below test standard before he was perma-crocked. Plus, two of those tries were against Newcastle who, if memory serves, are in worse form than Bath.

Sometimes stats can be misleading. If you watch Big Joe’s tries this season, they’re all pretty much walk-ins in the corner that a decent Championship winger would have scored, not tries he’s done anything outstanding for.

He still looks ponderous to me and a few easy tries don’t actually equate to him being in good form. His defence and ability under the high ball are still below test standard.

I really wouldn’t dismiss Jonny May and TBH. As Timbo said, he’s super professional and really looks after himself. I also don’t think Keith Earls is superior in anything other than kicking? Unless we’re counting snarling aggression as a good quality?

Well he is a miles better passer and creator, but equally not dismissing May, just describing pros and cons. Who said Earls was better anyway different styles entirely

[twitchy]

If we are giving ewels a pass as "captain" of that bath team then we should certainly allow JC to be just scoring some walk in tries after a 2 year lay off. If he has proper coaching and direction with england he can be put back on track.

[FKAS]

If we are giving ewels a pass as "captain" of that bath team then we should certainly allow JC to be just scoring some walk in tries after a 2 year lay off. If he has proper coaching and direction with england he can be put back on track.

Cokanasiga is still a young player with a lot of upside. For me this tour is the ideal opportunity to see where he's at after his injury and off field tough time. If he's in the right head space to really push his development then you can invest time next season heading into the world cup. If he's not quite there then you move on. Eddie wants his wingers to offer more than hugging the wing, Nowell and Malins were selected on that basis in the 6N, didn't work but if the idea is play with less structure then you want players that will help Smith by going to look for work.

[32nd Man]

I'm hoping that Manu's call up is a keep in touch thing and he gets the summer off.

I'd say the same for all the guys who were Lions.

16 games in 12 months.

Logic that could have been applied before the AIs.

He needs a properly managed phased return. He will probably be chucked in as Eddie is desperate for a few results. I

[32nd Man]

I see the benefit of building team cohesion. However if you're building that by using guys who didn't get a summer break last season, then it comes at the risk of that going out of the window when they start to break down towards the end of next season. At which point you have pretty much no time to address the gaps that opens up.

[Mellsblue]

I'm hoping that Manu's call up is a keep in touch thing and he gets the summer off.

I'd say the same for all the guys who were Lions.

16 games in 12 months.

Logic that could have been applied before the AIs.

He needs a properly managed phased return. He will probably be chucked in as Eddie is desperate for a few results. I

Sanderson is on record saying that the training session in which Tuilagi last broke down for England was above the intensity agreed by their S&C dept…..