RugbyRebels

Smith already going to Saints pretty much from the word on the street.

From local Worcester news reporter Marcello Cossali-Francis on twitter -

Warriors update: so it sounds very much as if the club will go into administration, likely to be public knowledge on Monday morning.
There remains concern about the fact Warriors the club and land are now separate businesses. Makes it tricky for a buyer if that’s the case.
There are people within the club who no longer are on side with the owners & there is a big worry for staff over their jobs.
Question make over salaries for all at the club. They want a sale of all assets but that might not be what the owners want anymore.
Tax bill is big.
I believe we’ve hit a point where there is serious unrest as the club and a real worry about the future of it.
What needs to happen now is a full sale of all assets to ensure the club do not go bust. But what buyer would take the club and not the land?
Its a real mess folks.
They have split the land into separate businesses from the club. Set up three new ones in the last couple of months.
Sixways Property Limited (July 2022)
Sixways Stadium Limited (June 2022)
Sixways Medical Limited (March 2022)
All separate from WRFC Trading Limited.

fivepointer wrote:From local Worcester news reporter Marcello Cossali-Francis on twitter -

Warriors update: so it sounds very much as if the club will go into administration, likely to be public knowledge on Monday morning.
There remains concern about the fact Warriors the club and land are now separate businesses. Makes it tricky for a buyer if that’s the case.
There are people within the club who no longer are on side with the owners & there is a big worry for staff over their jobs.
Question make over salaries for all at the club. They want a sale of all assets but that might not be what the owners want anymore.
Tax bill is big.
I believe we’ve hit a point where there is serious unrest as the club and a real worry about the future of it.
What needs to happen now is a full sale of all assets to ensure the club do not go bust. But what buyer would take the club and not the land?
Its a real mess folks.
They have split the land into separate businesses from the club. Set up three new ones in the last couple of months.
Sixways Property Limited (July 2022)
Sixways Stadium Limited (June 2022)
Sixways Medical Limited (March 2022)
All separate from WRFC Trading Limited.

Stinks

pandion wrote:

fivepointer wrote:From local Worcester news reporter Marcello Cossali-Francis on twitter -

Warriors update: so it sounds very much as if the club will go into administration, likely to be public knowledge on Monday morning.
There remains concern about the fact Warriors the club and land are now separate businesses. Makes it tricky for a buyer if that’s the case.
There are people within the club who no longer are on side with the owners & there is a big worry for staff over their jobs.
Question make over salaries for all at the club. They want a sale of all assets but that might not be what the owners want anymore.
Tax bill is big.
I believe we’ve hit a point where there is serious unrest as the club and a real worry about the future of it.
What needs to happen now is a full sale of all assets to ensure the club do not go bust. But what buyer would take the club and not the land?
Its a real mess folks.
They have split the land into separate businesses from the club. Set up three new ones in the last couple of months.
Sixways Property Limited (July 2022)
Sixways Stadium Limited (June 2022)
Sixways Medical Limited (March 2022)
All separate from WRFC Trading Limited.

Stinks

That does look dodgy. I haven't got time to look it up at the minute but I'd be interested to see who owns those companies and at what value the assets were transferred at.

fivepointer wrote:From local Worcester news reporter Marcello Cossali-Francis on twitter -

Warriors update: so it sounds very much as if the club will go into administration, likely to be public knowledge on Monday morning.
There remains concern about the fact Warriors the club and land are now separate businesses. Makes it tricky for a buyer if that’s the case.
There are people within the club who no longer are on side with the owners & there is a big worry for staff over their jobs.
Question make over salaries for all at the club. They want a sale of all assets but that might not be what the owners want anymore.
Tax bill is big.
I believe we’ve hit a point where there is serious unrest as the club and a real worry about the future of it.
What needs to happen now is a full sale of all assets to ensure the club do not go bust. But what buyer would take the club and not the land?
Its a real mess folks.
They have split the land into separate businesses from the club. Set up three new ones in the last couple of months.
Sixways Property Limited (July 2022)
Sixways Stadium Limited (June 2022)
Sixways Medical Limited (March 2022)
All separate from WRFC Trading Limited.

Jesus, that is filthy. No doubt all perfectly legal, but morally utter theft and completely despicable.

My thoughts to the Worcester supporters, poor sods. Can't see any result but the death of the professional club.

Puja

FKAS wrote:

pandion wrote:

fivepointer wrote:From local Worcester news reporter Marcello Cossali-Francis on twitter -

Warriors update: so it sounds very much as if the club will go into administration, likely to be public knowledge on Monday morning.
There remains concern about the fact Warriors the club and land are now separate businesses. Makes it tricky for a buyer if that’s the case.
There are people within the club who no longer are on side with the owners & there is a big worry for staff over their jobs.
Question make over salaries for all at the club. They want a sale of all assets but that might not be what the owners want anymore.
Tax bill is big.
I believe we’ve hit a point where there is serious unrest as the club and a real worry about the future of it.
What needs to happen now is a full sale of all assets to ensure the club do not go bust. But what buyer would take the club and not the land?
Its a real mess folks.
They have split the land into separate businesses from the club. Set up three new ones in the last couple of months.
Sixways Property Limited (July 2022)
Sixways Stadium Limited (June 2022)
Sixways Medical Limited (March 2022)
All separate from WRFC Trading Limited.

Stinks

That does look dodgy. I haven't got time to look it up at the minute but I'd be interested to see who owns those companies and at what value the assets were transferred at.

C&P from another site.

There are 3 new companies that Colin Goldring is a director of.

Sixways Medical ltd

Sixways Property ltd

Sixways Stadium ltd

pandion wrote:

FKAS wrote:

pandion wrote:
Stinks

That does look dodgy. I haven't got time to look it up at the minute but I'd be interested to see who owns those companies and at what value the assets were transferred at.

C&P from another site.

There are 3 new companies that Colin Goldring is a director of.

Sixways Medical ltd

Sixways Property ltd

Sixways Stadium ltd

Looks like the club owns Property and Stadium Ltd. Well I say club, Worcester Sports Ltd. Looks like they've got a slightly complex structure going on with various bits of the business separated off. Had to see much as the accounts are overdue so the most recent stuff isn't filed at Companies House.

FKAS wrote:

pandion wrote:

FKAS wrote:
That does look dodgy. I haven't got time to look it up at the minute but I'd be interested to see who owns those companies and at what value the assets were transferred at.

C&P from another site.

There are 3 new companies that Colin Goldring is a director of.

Sixways Medical ltd

Sixways Property ltd

Sixways Stadium ltd

Looks like the club owns Property and Stadium Ltd. Well I say club, Worcester Sports Ltd. Looks like they've got a slightly complex structure going on with various bits of the business separated off. Had to see much as the accounts are overdue so the most recent stuff isn't filed at Companies House.

Feels like a shell game being set up.

Puja

Puja wrote:

FKAS wrote:

pandion wrote: C&P from another site.

There are 3 new companies that Colin Goldring is a director of.

Sixways Medical ltd

Sixways Property ltd

Sixways Stadium ltd

Looks like the club owns Property and Stadium Ltd. Well I say club, Worcester Sports Ltd. Looks like they've got a slightly complex structure going on with various bits of the business separated off. Had to see much as the accounts are overdue so the most recent stuff isn't filed at Companies House.

Feels like a shell game being set up.

Puja

Very much so. Feels like they'll break those away from the company facing the winding up petition. Might then try and buy the club image rights from the administrators for a nominal fee and phoenix the club back into existence leaving behind the debt. I suspect a law suit or two might come from that. Worcester's owner has got previous for iffy transactions.

Rumours going round it's as much as £6m owed to HMRC.

Raggs wrote:

Jesus. While I hold a low level of respect for Diamond and any public utterances he makes, he must be really f*cked off to be making that bold a public statement. Can't see any result but the end of the club as a professional entity if things have reached that stage.

Makes Wasps' situation much more parlous. If they were in trouble on their own, the RFU might reasonably have considered them "too big to fail", given their history, brand, fanbase, squad quality, and the assets underpinning them (especially with all the non-rugby revenue streams coming back after COVID), and stepped in to steady the ship.

Worcester are very definitely not too big to fail, especially a freshly asset-stripped Worcester. But if they go first, can the RFU realistically justify rescuing one club out of two in trouble?

I suppose we could end up with a London Irish Richmond Scottish situation where the two are merged and the Worcester brand is remembered with a blue line on the kit for a season before being quietly forgotten about.

Puja

Great listen with Mark Evans on the state of the game here. Several bullseyes hit. Recommended.

I feel a bit sorry for Diamond. He's a bit confrontational in how he operates but he comes across as the type of leader who will back his players to the hilt if they give everything for the team back. His interviews after leaving Sale were actually quite endearing as he came across as a genuine bloke.

Worcester seem to be really up against it. Problem for their players is that not many teams will have any cash to sign up any of their players, particularly the high earners. Any promising youngsters or those that are on salaries maybe below market rate like Hatherall could be targeted though.

Dicks.

Rumour of a potential white knight though:



Very unsourced rumour has it that Diamond is leading a consortium to buy the club out of administration. Possible, given his ccontacts and his time on Sale's board, but might be just speculation from fans' wishful thinking and hope. If Diamond does ride in like the cavalry, I'll take back... most of the things I've said about him - it'd be an amazing manouevre.

Puja

DT suggesting automatic relegation if administration occurs after season kicks off and 35 point deduction if it happens before. Is that right?

Then, there is talk of raising the salary cap for the other clubs if Worcester fold to keep their players employed. That is some sort of inverse morality. As a general principle, surely 'white knights' are deterred by salary caps since their interventions must be artificially limited in ambition.

Thing is, without the stadium, the car park, the training ground etc, what's the actual warriors team worth with all the debt, and how likely is it to be a decent investment?

Also Charlie Morgan has posted a section from the regs saying if it can be shown to be due to a pandemic then no punishment is required.

The guidelines suggest a 35 point deduction for an insolvency event but there is a get out where there is a "no fault" event such as one incurred due to the pandemic.

Prem clubs unlikely to increase salary cap to accommodate Wuss players.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/play ... 53de1935cf

From the beeb

"The day after Warriors were hit by legal action for unpaid taxes, the directors used another of their companies to purchase the club's car park, for just £50,000.

As well as being directors of WRFC Trading Limited, Colin Goldring and Jason Whittingham are also directors of a number of other companies, including Mq Property Ltd.

On Wednesday, 17 August Mq Property Ltd completed the purchase of the freehold of the club's car park. This was paid for with a loan from another company, Triangle Estate & Petroleum Ltd.

Separately in June, training pitches owned and used by Warriors were sold to a newly-created real estate company, Worcester Capital Investments Ltd, for £350,000.

The car park and pitches are sizeable parts of the Sixways site.

Warriors' accounts for 2020 state that as a whole the site had been independently valued at £16.7m. That estimate includes Sixways stadium; the freehold of which also now belongs to Mq Property Ltd.

Unlike indebted WRFC Trading Ltd, Mq Property Ltd is not known to face a winding-up petition, yet it now owns the bulk of the land the club sits on.

It's unclear whether the £50,000 purchase of the car park was an undervaluation. Its value - and that of the training pitches - will depend on what restrictions are in place on the land, as well as how easy it is to develop.

Warriors' 2020 accounts describe how the planning potential for the Sixways site had been 'significantly improved'."

So, unless there is some clever shell company activity going on that I don't understand, Worcester have been asset stripped. Looks like the players and supporters have been screwed to me....

Sounds like baffling with bullshit to buy time while the silverware is fenced to me, but we'll see what comes of this.

Puja

That is categorically not true. I cannot say more than that until an official announcement.

Danno wrote:That is categorically not true. I cannot say more than that until an official announcement.

Sorry, which bit's not true? The administration not imminent or them robbing the silverware?

Official statement from the shysters owners: https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/20 ... situation/

“We continue to work closely with HMRC, Premiership Rugby, the RFU and DCMS to find the best solution to the situation.

“We are very grateful for the support these organisations have shown to the club.

“We are now working through a number of options with our advisors.

“These include solutions for keeping rugby at Sixways and we will communicate further as soon as a decision has been finalised.

That is not an encouraging turn of phrase.

Puja

Late stage capitalism operating in the daylight created by people's interest in their sports teams generally tends to be an eye opener for a lot of people who don't see this kind of thing happening in their normal lives.

Puja wrote:

Danno wrote:That is categorically not true. I cannot say more than that until an official announcement.

Sorry, which bit's not true? The administration not imminent or them robbing the silverware?

Official statement from the shysters owners: https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/20 ... situation/

“We continue to work closely with HMRC, Premiership Rugby, the RFU and DCMS to find the best solution to the situation.

“We are very grateful for the support these organisations have shown to the club.

“We are now working through a number of options with our advisors.

“These include solutions for keeping rugby at Sixways and we will communicate further as soon as a decision has been finalised.

That is not an encouraging turn of phrase.

Puja

The Admin. Sorry for the ambiguity