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It didn't seem especially egregious IMO.Puja wrote:Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?
Puja
It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the compPuja wrote:Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?
Puja
It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.paddy no 11 wrote:It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the compPuja wrote:Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?
Puja
In which case, I've lost some sympathy for them. If the ref stops the clock and actively warns you about timewasting, then you kick the fucking ball straight away. Apart from anything else, you can timewaste some more on the way to the lineout and, worst case scenario, better to give away the scrum 40m out than 5m from your line.Peej wrote:It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.paddy no 11 wrote:It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the compPuja wrote:Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?
Puja
Aussie attempts at gamesmanship cost them the game.
I was watching with the sound off so haven't heard the details of the warnings but I think Aussie arguments are hugely undermined by the site of Foley's own teammate behind him screaming at him to kick it.Puja wrote:In which case, I've lost some sympathy for them. If the ref stops the clock and actively warns you about timewasting, then you kick the fucking ball straight away. Apart from anything else, you can timewaste some more on the way to the lineout and, worst case scenario, better to give away the scrum 40m out than 5m from your line.Peej wrote:It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.paddy no 11 wrote:
It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp
Aussie attempts at gamesmanship cost them the game.
Puja
Seen the clip of Raynal explaining hid decision to White rather than "running away" as was reported. Fair play to him for that.Mikey Brown wrote:I was unsure at first. Possibly slightly confusing that he does say “time off” amongst his initial directions, but my sympathy for Aus has been reduced to absolute zero after seeing this angle.
Kicks at goal have a time limit. Free kicks and penalties must be taken without delay according to the laws with free kick the sanction for time wasting.32nd Man wrote:Does anyone believe he'd have made that call against the ABs in NZ though?
Limited sympathy because of the Swain cheap shot, but, having seen the time elapsed on at least one of the AB kicks at goal, it really does smack of calling one for the assessor, where something that's been happening all game gets pulled up in the last few minutes.
It has actually been bugging me that he gave the wrong punishment by immediately awarding a scrum. While the Kiwis would probably have opted for a scrum anyway if they'd been given a free kick, it bothers me that he's made such a dramatic and game-deciding decision and then got it wrong.Big D wrote:Free kicks and penalties must be taken without delay according to the laws with free kick the sanction for time wasting.
Rugby union refereeing.morepork wrote:The Wobbalies were cynical at the pointy end of proceedings. If the decision was technically correct, how is the decision defined as subjective?
You are advocating for subjective interpretation of laws by different refs?
Not advocating, more noting that it already exists. Someone like Matthew Carley would never have given that decision (and that's not necessarily a compliment to him). I'd also not expect Owens to give that decision (he would absolutely have stopped time until the lineout was formed or insisted that time was rewound, plus given some saucy commentary to White). Whereas if you'd told me this happened and asked me to guess the ref, Raynal would've been pretty high on the list (probably level with Barnes? Although Barnes's communication would've been a lot better and would've likely involved calling time off and saying, "If you don't take it, I'm going to free-kick you.").
I do get that point and would be equally annoyed if it were done against my team. However, I've gone and rewatched the video and Australia waste a maximum of 25 seconds of actual gametime after the earliest point at which a team playing quickly could've kicked it (and practically only 10 seconds after a team not in a hurry would've kicked it). That feels like an awfully small amount of actual time wasted for the punishment of a 5m scrum in the middle of the pitch to be appropriate, especially since they could be recouped by calling time off while the lineout was being formed.morepork wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:42 pm Dramatic circumstances is exactly why the decision matters. This is inherent in the distinction between being an annoying prick and to bend the rules to gain an advantage and just being a Kok when the situation is not so dramatic. Both should be penalty worthy, but the former more so because it impacts on the ability to compete as per the rules of the game.
That was my first instinct, but reviewing the footage, the ref gives plenty of warnings which are all ignored. Foley's team mates are screaming for him to kick the ball, but he knows his team is at a player disadvantage and wants to chew up as many seconds as possible. I think its the right call, as frustrating as that is for Aussies right now.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:07 amI do get that point and would be equally annoyed if it were done against my team. However, I've gone and rewatched the video and Australia waste a maximum of 25 seconds of actual gametime after the earliest point at which a team playing quickly could've kicked it (and practically only 10 seconds after a team not in a hurry would've kicked it). That feels like an awfully small amount of actual time wasted for the punishment of a 5m scrum in the middle of the pitch to be appropriate, especially since they could be recouped by calling time off while the lineout was being formed.morepork wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:42 pm Dramatic circumstances is exactly why the decision matters. This is inherent in the distinction between being an annoying prick and to bend the rules to gain an advantage and just being a Kok when the situation is not so dramatic. Both should be penalty worthy, but the former more so because it impacts on the ability to compete as per the rules of the game.
If it'd been on the halfway and NZ had taken that possession and scored from a distance, I'd have a lot less sympathy, but changing a penalty to clear the lines, into probably the best attacking position on the pitch is a big turnaround and, while technically correct, it changed the result of the game, which I don't think the 25 seconds would have done.
Puja