RugbyRebels

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:37 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:32 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:27 pm They can't give that as foul play. It's a push on the Saints player who's stood in the way of the Tigers players coming to the breakdown. There's nothing in that.

Plenty of sympathy with Chessum but the Saints player is trying to get back to breakdown - is he supposed to take a circuitous route - and, as with a high tackle and contact in the air, surely it’s about outcome and not intention.
Not that I actually think Chessum should be penalised but, for me, the thought process/logic to get to the decision is all wrong.

You must enter the tackle area from your own side. He's running back to his line via the tackle area to slow down the Tigers clear out. It's a cute move but doesn't work this time.

I know the laws and I stand by what I put. Regardless, he’s not ‘stood’ as you initially posted.

Poor Iyogun. Only on the field because of Chessum’s actions.

Fucking joke

That's a harsh yellow for Ioygen. Looked another case of them both trying to be clever.

Tigers find the space and and score.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:39 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:37 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:32 pm
Plenty of sympathy with Chessum but the Saints player is trying to get back to breakdown - is he supposed to take a circuitous route - and, as with a high tackle and contact in the air, surely it’s about outcome and not intention.
Not that I actually think Chessum should be penalised but, for me, the thought process/logic to get to the decision is all wrong.

You must enter the tackle area from your own side. He's running back to his line via the tackle area to slow down the Tigers clear out. It's a cute move but doesn't work this time.

I know the laws and I stand by what I put. Regardless, he’s not ‘stood’ as you initially posted.

Yes he's not stood, I stand corrected.

However, you can't run back towards the breakdown from the wrong side and block the clear out he's offside so can't complain about being cleared out.

Dickson by name, Dick by nature

Shame they didn't review the deliberate knock on at the start of the game so thoroughly

Saints clearly share a playing philosophy with Australia...

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:44 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:39 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:37 pm

You must enter the tackle area from your own side. He's running back to his line via the tackle area to slow down the Tigers clear out. It's a cute move but doesn't work this time.

I know the laws and I stand by what I put. Regardless, he’s not ‘stood’ as you initially posted.

Yes he's not stood, I stand corrected.

However, you can't run back towards the breakdown from the wrong side and block the clear out he's offside so can't complain about being cleared out.

You can run back towards the breakdown as long as you only join it from the correct side and don’t deliberately obstruct the oppo.
You can’t legally clear out a player who isn’t part of the ruck.

Aaargh so close to another try. Cokanasiga Jnr looks pretty classy, could be a very hand acquisition.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:47 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:44 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:39 pm
I know the laws and I stand by what I put. Regardless, he’s not ‘stood’ as you initially posted.

Yes he's not stood, I stand corrected.

However, you can't run back towards the breakdown from the wrong side and block the clear out he's offside so can't complain about being cleared out.

You can run back towards the breakdown as long as you only join it from the correct side and don’t deliberately obstruct the oppo.
You can’t legally clear out a player who isn’t part of the ruck.

He's within a metre of the tackle area he's already offside and obstructing Chessum hence the clear out.

Tigers offloading game in the second half has been as key as the scrum to this win. It's not very pretty but it is effective.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:52 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:47 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:44 pm

Yes he's not stood, I stand corrected.

However, you can't run back towards the breakdown from the wrong side and block the clear out he's offside so can't complain about being cleared out.

You can run back towards the breakdown as long as you only join it from the correct side and don’t deliberately obstruct the oppo.
You can’t legally clear out a player who isn’t part of the ruck.

He's within a metre of the tackle area he's already offside and obstructing Chessum hence the clear out.

I disagree with every element of that. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

I wish Leicester hadn't got that last one, selfish from Leibenberg. Pisses me off when people do that. How many times do they practice that a week?

Victory by attrition. Eeerrrggghh.

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:54 pm I wish Leicester hadn't got that last one, selfish from Leibenberg. Pisses me off when people do that. How many times do they practice that a week?

Given how they play, probably not enough.

What an absolute shit show of a second half from Saints. First 30 mins were great. As with last season, we need to learn to play for more than 30 to 40 mins a game

Adam_P wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:57 pm What an absolute shit show of a second half from Saints. First 30 mins were great. As with last season, we need to learn to play for more than 30 to 40 mins a game

It really went sideways for Saints when they couldn't stop the Tigers forwards from getting over the gain line. As soon as that started happening then Tigers could start passing and start creating more space for Nadolo.

Thankfully the majority of the kicking finished in the second half. Saints having kicked once more than Tigers in the first half was a slight shock at half time. I have wondered previously whether Borthwick has found some stats about kicking heavy in the first half to tire the opposition and then turning up the physical pressure once they see that happening.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:54 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:52 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:47 pm
You can run back towards the breakdown as long as you only join it from the correct side and don’t deliberately obstruct the oppo.
You can’t legally clear out a player who isn’t part of the ruck.

He's within a metre of the tackle area he's already offside and obstructing Chessum hence the clear out.

I disagree with every element of that. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Forums like this would be boring if we all agreed all the time.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:01 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:54 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:52 pm

He's within a metre of the tackle area he's already offside and obstructing Chessum hence the clear out.

I disagree with every element of that. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Forums like this would be boring if we all agreed all the time.

No they wouldn't! You're wrong!

Adam_P wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:11 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:01 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:54 pm
I disagree with every element of that. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Forums like this would be boring if we all agreed all the time.

No they wouldn't! You're wrong!

On the Chessum "clear out" on Moon. Thats foul play all day long. You cannot just shove someone into another player irrespective of where they are on the pitch.
Overall Saints will be dismayed that they crumbled so badly in the 2nd half. Until they can add some solidity in the scrum and resilience generally they wont advance. Shame, as some of their attacking play is a joy to watch.

As a Saints fan I’m a bit lost for words at the farcical farce we have just seen.

Does Mitchell normally play the full 80 for Saints? It was a fault of Saints for parts of last season and their upturn in form towards the end of the season seemed to be when they started using James off the bench to keep the momentum high in the second half. Must be really tough to try and play that Mitchell tempo for a full game.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:20 pm On the Chessum "clear out" on Moon. Thats foul play all day long. You cannot just shove someone into another player irrespective of where they are on the pitch.
Overall Saints will be dismayed that they crumbled so badly in the 2nd half. Until they can add some solidity in the scrum and resilience generally they wont advance. Shame, as some of their attacking play is a joy to watch.

Yeah, I have to say I think we got away with one there. FKAS is right in one respect that Moon changes direction so that he's running towards Leicester's side of the ruck rather than trying to go around it - he'd have to hurdle it anyway if he wasn't pushed - but you can't give someone a full-blooded shove like that. A bit of a nudge you can argue that he was trying to keep his balance after Moon cut him up like he was driving a BMW, but not when he absolutely launches him.

Penalty for Moon for obstruction, penalty reversed against Chessum for reckless play, to my mind.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:02 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:20 pm On the Chessum "clear out" on Moon. Thats foul play all day long. You cannot just shove someone into another player irrespective of where they are on the pitch.
Overall Saints will be dismayed that they crumbled so badly in the 2nd half. Until they can add some solidity in the scrum and resilience generally they wont advance. Shame, as some of their attacking play is a joy to watch.

Yeah, I have to say I think we got away with one there. FKAS is right in one respect that Moon changes direction so that he's running towards Leicester's side of the ruck rather than trying to go around it - he'd have to hurdle it anyway if he wasn't pushed - but you can't give someone a full-blooded shove like that. A bit of a nudge you can argue that he was trying to keep his balance after Moon cut him up like he was driving a BMW, but not when he absolutely launches him.

Penalty for Moon for obstruction, penalty reversed against Chessum for reckless play, to my mind.

Puja

Going to be a lot more penalties every week if that's the case or are we only going to penalise players when someone gets injured? If you put yourself in a position you shouldn't don't be shocked if you get cleared out. Accelerating Moon's momentum will make any contact look worse but Chessum doesn't really have much in the way of options. He doesn't drop the shoulder in, he doesn't tackle him into the probe players which would have been more dangerous. If he tries to go round the Moon will ensure he's enough of an obstacle so that Saints are over the ball and at that point Tigers are chasing the game, would you want to be the international second row in the debrief on Monday explaining how you let your opposite number obstruct you from getting to the breakdown?

If Waller doesn't get injured then no one looks twice at the incident and in most games something like this happens and everybody is fine and no one bats and eyelid.