RugbyRebels

well Fiji got Richie Gray on board..

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:46 am Anybody even excited about this Fiji game?

I suspect not. Looking at the ticketing website there’s a hell of a lot of unsold tickets. It’ll probably be the worst attended game for quite a few years.

I’m going because I have a season ticket, but I’m not so much excited as shitting it that we’ll play terribly and lose. This may not have been the best season to finally buy that season ticket.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:46 am I didn't manage to see the game and it was hard to bring myself to watch the full thing back after I'd seen the highlights. Any sings we're really making any strides in our attacking/supporting game? Sounds like our discipline was typically shonky.

Anybody even excited about this Fiji game?

Did Bennet do enough to hold on to the shirt? Is he trusted with the defence in the same way Harris has been? I can imagine if Townsend brings Redpath back that he may want to reintroduce Harris too.

The Smith try was encouraging in terms of attacking patterns. Good move, well executed.

Other than that, it didn't seem that our backs really got into the game that much somehow. As mentioned before, we didn't seem to really try to get the ball to our wings that much. Bennett didn't really do that much but I hope he gets picked again. No obvious weakness in defence and put in the hit for Kinghorn's try.

I get what you mean about the Fiji game but I don't really know how we have got into this gloomy place. We are ranked higher than almost anytime and were unlucky to lose to Australia (not a great Australia but still). I know the Six Nations was a let down but we still beat England and Italy. It should be a great year for a season ticket. Four good opponents and probs the best chance in a while to beat the All Blacks. Could really do with a performance just to cheer everyone up, but I gear expectations have risen beyond that justified by our player pool.

4 matches in a row is probs too many to be fair.

15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs) 93 caps
14. Darcy Graham (Edinburgh Rugby) 30 caps
13. Chris Harris – Vice Captain – (Gloucester Rugby) 36 caps
12. Cameron Redpath (Bath Rugby) 2 caps
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Edinburgh Rugby) 20 caps
10. Adam Hastings (Gloucester Rugby) 26 caps
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) 55 caps

1. Pierre Schoeman (Edinburgh Rugby) 13 caps
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) 28 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) 51 caps
4. Richie Gray (Glasgow Warriors) 67 caps
5. Grant Gilchrist – Vice Captain – (Edinburgh Rugby) 56 caps
6. Jamie Ritchie – Captain – (Edinburgh Rugby) 33 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) 52 caps
8. Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) 25 caps

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman (Sale Sharks) 4 caps
17. Rory Sutherland (Ulster Rugby) 20 caps
18. Murphy Walker (Glasgow Warriors) uncapped
19. Jonny Gray (Exeter Chiefs) 69 caps
20. Jack Dempsey (Glasgow Warriors) 1 cap
21. Ben White (London Irish) 6 caps
22. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Rugby) 35 caps
23. Sione Tuipulotu (Glasgow Warriors) 8 caps

Bennet dropped completely. Kinghorn to bench for Hastings. Richie Gray back in the starting team!!!

Not sure how Hastings is ahead of Russell, and that's a helluva return for Richie Gray.

Really pleased to see Redpath back at 12. Also pleased that he’s picked Hastings at 10 in the absence of Russell rather than continuing with Kinghorn. That 2nd row is not exactly dynamic though is it ?

Fine with the team. Main disappointment is no Bennett. Hard to know whether this is basically first choice or whether a few are being rested as not everyone can do 4 in a row.

BaldiePete wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:45 pm Really pleased to see Redpath back at 12. Also pleased that he’s picked Hastings at 10 in the absence of Russell rather than continuing with Kinghorn. That 2nd row is not exactly dynamic though is it ?

I'm with you on all these points. Is Young injured? I thought he did well last weekend and would have been happy with him being retained in the squad. I always have high hopes for Redpath, he's shown in a number of cameos how high quality a 12 he is. Actually creates space for the players outside him and uses them very well. I'd still have liked to see Kinghorn at 12 though, just to see if it's an experiment that has any merit. I can't help but feel he has all the natural strengths for a great 12 and whenever Redpath is injured we really struggle to generate anything much through midfield. I expect to see the ball in Duhan and Grahams hands much more often this weekend

stevedog1980 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:59 am

BaldiePete wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:45 pm Really pleased to see Redpath back at 12. Also pleased that he’s picked Hastings at 10 in the absence of Russell rather than continuing with Kinghorn. That 2nd row is not exactly dynamic though is it ?

I'm with you on all these points. Is Young injured? I thought he did well last weekend and would have been happy with him being retained in the squad. I always have high hopes for Redpath, he's shown in a number of cameos how high quality a 12 he is. Actually creates space for the players outside him and uses them very well. I'd still have liked to see Kinghorn at 12 though, just to see if it's an experiment that has any merit. I can't help but feel he has all the natural strengths for a great 12 and whenever Redpath is injured we really struggle to generate anything much through midfield. I expect to see the ball in Duhan and Grahams hands much more often this weekend

Young did okay but we shouldn't ignore the held up, the card and the lineout issues. The lineout issues weren't all
(or even mainly) his fault of course but it was a major cause of us losing and he is part of the machine. The held up annoyed me. I think lanky second rows need to be very careful picking and going near the line. They should almost be told not to do it if it is going to involve going over bodies as there is too much of a risk of being held up.

I'd be reasonably curious about Kinghorn at 12 but don't see why that experiment should be carried out at international level.

‘Same old shit’ doesn’t really do it justice. Feel lucky to be even be in the game, let alone ahead.

Back home after the game and slowly getting more annoyed about it. They had 14 men for 26+ minutes of that game. Over a quarter of a game.

Fiji looked the better coached side. Which is interesting given their coach.

Scotland forwards were mostly powder puff in open field even if set piece was decent. The backs didn't get a huge amount of good attacking ball but aren't offering a huge amount.

The penalties, oh the penalties. Poor discipline is often a reflection of the coaching.

ABZ has offered nothing since we paid him out his contract.

Yeah we just aren’t making an sort of progress in attack. I don’t even know what Zondagh is trying to do. Passive static carriers, unbelievably obvious where we’re going with every single play, slow and inaccurate support play, putting needless pressure on ourselves at every breakdown and it all feeds in to the cycle of poor discipline.

Fiji provided basically all the entertainment today. Massively physical and exciting with the ball, but were let down by some truly awful moments of poor discipline or simply switching off. The score line was very flattering to Scotland.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:45 pm Yeah we just aren’t making an sort of progress in attack. I don’t even know what Zondagh is trying to do. Passive static carriers, unbelievably obvious where we’re going with every single play, slow and inaccurate support play, putting needless pressure on ourselves at every breakdown and it all feeds in to the cycle of poor discipline.

Fiji provided basically all the entertainment today. Massively physical and exciting with the ball, but were let down by some truly awful moments of poor discipline or simply switching off. The score line was very flattering to Scotland.

Yeah, agree with all that. We have some good players and some good moments but we look a bit directionless at the moment.

As a plus, I tough Matt Fagerson stood out in defence. He is hugely physical and just keeps driving people back. Richie Gray also had some good moments.

Ach well, at least there`s next Sunday to look forward to.

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:57 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:45 pm Yeah we just aren’t making an sort of progress in attack. I don’t even know what Zondagh is trying to do. Passive static carriers, unbelievably obvious where we’re going with every single play, slow and inaccurate support play, putting needless pressure on ourselves at every breakdown and it all feeds in to the cycle of poor discipline.

Fiji provided basically all the entertainment today. Massively physical and exciting with the ball, but were let down by some truly awful moments of poor discipline or simply switching off. The score line was very flattering to Scotland.

Yeah, agree with all that. We have some good players and some good moments but we look a bit directionless at the moment.

As a plus, I tough Matt Fagerson stood out in defence. He is hugely physical and just keeps driving people back. Richie Gray also had some good moments.

I thought Fagerson was incredibly brave and should have been our MOTM, but what the fuck are we doing just standing still on the gainline watching multiple 20 stone forwards get a full head of steam before smashing in to us. Fagerson must be absolutely battered today (among others) and we’re taking our passive defence to ridiculous extremes.

Thoughts on Argentina after that game? Reckon we will get nothing out of their midfield defence and the back three are really good. But we can take them on at the set piece and grind something out with a really disciplined performance - so that's us screwed.

Off to catch up on the Fiji game now... The comments do not make me optimistic.

switchskier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:12 pm Thoughts on Argentina after that game? Reckon we will get nothing out of their midfield defence and the back three are really good. But we can take them on at the set piece and grind something out with a really disciplined performance - so that's us screwed.

Off to catch up on the Fiji game now... The comments do not make me optimistic.

… and they have an outstandingly reliable kicker while our discipline is shocking.

BaldiePete wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:20 pm

switchskier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:12 pm Thoughts on Argentina after that game? Reckon we will get nothing out of their midfield defence and the back three are really good. But we can take them on at the set piece and grind something out with a really disciplined performance - so that's us screwed.

Off to catch up on the Fiji game now... The comments do not make me optimistic.

… and they have an outstandingly reliable kicker while our discipline is shocking.

He may be my current favourite player however, so I'll forgive him in advance. Nice happy interview too

switchskier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:21 pm

BaldiePete wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:20 pm

switchskier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:12 pm Thoughts on Argentina after that game? Reckon we will get nothing out of their midfield defence and the back three are really good. But we can take them on at the set piece and grind something out with a really disciplined performance - so that's us screwed.

Off to catch up on the Fiji game now... The comments do not make me optimistic.

… and they have an outstandingly reliable kicker while our discipline is shocking.

He may be my current favourite player however, so I'll forgive him in advance. Nice happy interview too

As an Edinburgh supporter I love the Boff so I’m with you there.

I hope Edinburgh have him signed on a long contract because some rich clubs are likely to come calling soon.

switchskier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:12 pm Thoughts on Argentina after that game? Reckon we will get nothing out of their midfield defence and the back three are really good. But we can take them on at the set piece and grind something out with a really disciplined performance - so that's us screwed.

Off to catch up on the Fiji game now... The comments do not make me optimistic.

I’m also reassessing our recent series against them. Outside of the Ire/Fra/NZ, and not even so much NZ these days, it is so hard to judge the relative quality of any of the top teams. Are Arg and Aus a lot better than we gave them credit for? Who knows?

It’s just so painful switching between thinking we’re a tier 3 side, and feeling like we’re a good coach away from being a properly threatening one.

We can obviously beat Argentina on paper, but who knows what we’ll actually look like on the pitch. They just look so much more fired up, or at least they seem to know what they want to do with their passion and aggression.

We just look inefficient in everything that we do. Which now I think about it is probably one of the worst things I could say about a coach.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:02 pm

switchskier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:12 pm Thoughts on Argentina after that game? Reckon we will get nothing out of their midfield defence and the back three are really good. But we can take them on at the set piece and grind something out with a really disciplined performance - so that's us screwed.

Off to catch up on the Fiji game now... The comments do not make me optimistic.

I’m also reassessing our recent series against them. Outside of the Ire/Fra/NZ, and not even so much NZ these days, it is so hard to judge the relative quality of any of the top teams. Are Arg and Aus a lot better than we gave them credit for? Who knows?

It’s just so painful switching between thinking we’re a tier 3 side, and feeling like we’re a good coach away from being a properly threatening one.

We can obviously beat Argentina on paper, but who knows what we’ll actually look like on the pitch. They just look so much more fired up, or at least they seem to know what they want to do with their passion and aggression.

We just look inefficient in everything that we do. Which now I think about it is probably one of the worst things I could say about a coach.

The thing is, half the time you could say that about Argentina's performances. I don't know what it is at the moment. So many teams are so inconsistent and look aimless when it isn't working.

I wonder if a lot more of it comes down to the breakdown and the drive for quick ball than we recognise. I know we comment on it sometimes (mainly when it results in penalties), but is slightly quickee actually the key difference between a backs move that looks sleek and one that looks predictable, stilted, and pointless?

Cameo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:19 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:02 pm

switchskier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:12 pm Thoughts on Argentina after that game? Reckon we will get nothing out of their midfield defence and the back three are really good. But we can take them on at the set piece and grind something out with a really disciplined performance - so that's us screwed.

Off to catch up on the Fiji game now... The comments do not make me optimistic.

I’m also reassessing our recent series against them. Outside of the Ire/Fra/NZ, and not even so much NZ these days, it is so hard to judge the relative quality of any of the top teams. Are Arg and Aus a lot better than we gave them credit for? Who knows?

It’s just so painful switching between thinking we’re a tier 3 side, and feeling like we’re a good coach away from being a properly threatening one.

We can obviously beat Argentina on paper, but who knows what we’ll actually look like on the pitch. They just look so much more fired up, or at least they seem to know what they want to do with their passion and aggression.

We just look inefficient in everything that we do. Which now I think about it is probably one of the worst things I could say about a coach.

The thing is, half the time you could say that about Argentina's performances. I don't know what it is at the moment. So many teams are so inconsistent and look aimless when it isn't working.

I wonder if a lot more of it comes down to the breakdown and the drive for quick ball than we recognise. I know we comment on it sometimes (mainly when it results in penalties), but is slightly quickee actually the key difference between a backs move that looks sleek and one that looks predictable, stilted, and pointless?

It always has been. But watching yesterday the big thing for me was less about the breakdown itself but the lack of dominant carrys going into it. We don't have a monster brusing ball caller so we need to be hitting sift shoulders and slight angles to give a breakdown for forwards to attack. Too much seems passive and square and therefore easy to defend at the minute.

switchskier wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:58 am

Cameo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:19 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:02 pm

I’m also reassessing our recent series against them. Outside of the Ire/Fra/NZ, and not even so much NZ these days, it is so hard to judge the relative quality of any of the top teams. Are Arg and Aus a lot better than we gave them credit for? Who knows?

It’s just so painful switching between thinking we’re a tier 3 side, and feeling like we’re a good coach away from being a properly threatening one.

We can obviously beat Argentina on paper, but who knows what we’ll actually look like on the pitch. They just look so much more fired up, or at least they seem to know what they want to do with their passion and aggression.

We just look inefficient in everything that we do. Which now I think about it is probably one of the worst things I could say about a coach.

The thing is, half the time you could say that about Argentina's performances. I don't know what it is at the moment. So many teams are so inconsistent and look aimless when it isn't working.

I wonder if a lot more of it comes down to the breakdown and the drive for quick ball than we recognise. I know we comment on it sometimes (mainly when it results in penalties), but is slightly quickee actually the key difference between a backs move that looks sleek and one that looks predictable, stilted, and pointless?

It always has been. But watching yesterday the big thing for me was less about the breakdown itself but the lack of dominant carrys going into it. We don't have a monster brusing ball caller so we need to be hitting sift shoulders and slight angles to give a breakdown for forwards to attack. Too much seems passive and square and therefore easy to defend at the minute.

I agree. Two sides of the same coin to an extent though. A lot easier to find slight gaps and soft shoulders if the defence has had a split second less to organise. In those circumstances, I can imagine us saying that Schoeman, Turner, and Fagerson(s) are coming into their own as carriers.

Cameo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:19 am
I wonder if a lot more of it comes down to the breakdown and the drive for quick ball than we recognise. I know we comment on it sometimes (mainly when it results in penalties), but is slightly quickee actually the key difference between a backs move that looks sleek and one that looks predictable, stilted, and pointless?

its 100% that.
As has been said we don't have the plethora of huge ball carriers, but we have enough. More important though is the soft shoulder and support player(s). On Sat the support was lethargic to put it mildly especially first half. Lazy almost, similar to Edinburgh on off days

Also helps if ball carrier runs on to the ball at pace, rather than standing still or trundling