RugbyRebels

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:14 pm I've said it before that we have the resources to be just like SA,NZ, France and expect to win every game. Anything less is a mistake and Eddie's WC vanity project shame's us.

Do we? As in we currently have 23 players we could pick and prepare and expect to beat everyone? Or that we have so many players it must be possible to develop that base over a short period into guaranteed world beaters? Either way, I don't agree tbh.

That said, we should be trying to win every game- its by far the best way to develop sides. Putting new players or new tactics into a winning team is much easier than if you are permanently buggering about and defending losing matches.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:21 pm

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:14 pm I've said it before that we have the resources to be just like SA,NZ, France and expect to win every game. Anything less is a mistake and Eddie's WC vanity project shame's us.

Do we? As in we currently have 23 players we could pick and prepare and expect to beat everyone? Or that we have so many players it must be possible to develop that base over a short period into guaranteed world beaters? Either way, I don't agree tbh.

That said, we should be trying to win every game- its by far the best way to develop sides. Putting new players or new tactics into a winning team is much easier than if you are permanently buggering about and defending losing matches.

Yes I think we do. The Autumn series really isn't a good guide on the strength or potential in English rugby.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:38 pm Makes sense to plan around a WC cycle. Its perfectly logical to see a WC as a culmination of effort over a 4 year period. But that doesnt mean you can sacrifice results in pursuit of that sole aim. And nor do you need to. Those teams in pole position to win next year - SA, France, Ireland & NZ - are all winning games and playing far better rugby than we're managing.
Jones using poor performances/results on the basis that WC preparation is of paramount importance is just bullshit.

It's been some time - how did we do before the 2003 WC. Lost everything and kept our strategy hidden during the losses?

Christ!!! Hasn’t he had the decency to resign yet.

loudnconfident wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:52 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:38 pm Makes sense to plan around a WC cycle. Its perfectly logical to see a WC as a culmination of effort over a 4 year period. But that doesnt mean you can sacrifice results in pursuit of that sole aim. And nor do you need to. Those teams in pole position to win next year - SA, France, Ireland & NZ - are all winning games and playing far better rugby than we're managing.
Jones using poor performances/results on the basis that WC preparation is of paramount importance is just bullshit.

It's been some time - how did we do before the 2003 WC. Lost everything and kept our strategy hidden during the losses?

Also, why then aren't England at least countering the strategies of the top teams who have showed their hands early?

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:11 pm Christ!!! Hasn’t he had the decency to resign yet.

If you were due an alleged £800k pay out would you resign instead?

Eddie Jones' closest adviser accused Bill Sweeney, the Rugby Football Union chief executive, of leaking stories about the departures of England's backroom staff and described the Twickenham figurehead as "Slippery Bill".

David Pembroke, a former journalist based in Canberra who now advises Jones, posted comments which have now been deleted under articles in The Times accusing Sweeney of leaking information to a Times journalist regarding the departures of the England men's team doctor, Dr Richard Tingay, and the potential departure of the team's training coordinator, Danny Kerry MBE, suggesting in the comments that there was an agenda against Jones from within the governing body.

In the now deleted comment, Pembroke wrote: "There is only one question now and it is a question of governance. The chairman of the RFU must ask the CEO of the RFU did he or persons on his behalf leak the information published in the Times today about the hockey coach and the doctor? Simple. If answer [sic] is yes. "Slippery" Bill is a goner."

Pembroke confirmed to Telegraph Sport that he had made the comments and was a subscriber to The Times, and that he and Sweeney have since spoken with the RFU chief executive denying that the governing body was behind any of the leaks. Pembroke has subsequently apologised to Sweeney for calling him "Slippery", an apology which Sweeney accepted, with the matter now settled and the pair planning to catch up in the future.

Telegraph Sport also understands the RFU has previously asked Pembroke to stop commenting under articles.

Jones, who is currently in France on a pre-planned Rugby World Cup reconnaissance trip, is under increasing pressure to keep his job after England won only five out of 12 Tests in 2022, with an RFU review panel meeting over the next two weeks to assess England's performances.

If asked to give an opinion on who was worse at his job, Jones or Sweeney, I'd be hard-pushed to decide. Sacking both today might be the best option.

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:39 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:21 pm

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:14 pm I've said it before that we have the resources to be just like SA,NZ, France and expect to win every game. Anything less is a mistake and Eddie's WC vanity project shame's us.

Do we? As in we currently have 23 players we could pick and prepare and expect to beat everyone? Or that we have so many players it must be possible to develop that base over a short period into guaranteed world beaters? Either way, I don't agree tbh.

That said, we should be trying to win every game- its by far the best way to develop sides. Putting new players or new tactics into a winning team is much easier than if you are permanently buggering about and defending losing matches.

Yes I think we do. The Autumn series really isn't a good guide on the strength or potential in English rugby.

Which? You think we have 23 players we could pick now to confidently beat anyone in the world?
The autumn series may or may not be a good guide (the last three years are though), but what team would you be picking? I can see issues in every unit of the team, irrespective of who is coaching them.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:11 am If asked to give an opinion on who was worse at his job, Jones or Sweeney, I'd be hard-pushed to decide. Sacking both today might be the best option.

What's your beef with Sweeney, dors?

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:33 am

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:39 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:21 pm

Do we? As in we currently have 23 players we could pick and prepare and expect to beat everyone? Or that we have so many players it must be possible to develop that base over a short period into guaranteed world beaters? Either way, I don't agree tbh.

That said, we should be trying to win every game- its by far the best way to develop sides. Putting new players or new tactics into a winning team is much easier than if you are permanently buggering about and defending losing matches.

Yes I think we do. The Autumn series really isn't a good guide on the strength or potential in English rugby.

Which? You think we have 23 players we could pick now to confidently beat anyone in the world?
The autumn series may or may not be a good guide (the last three years are though), but what team would you be picking? I can see issues in every unit of the team, irrespective of who is coaching them.

I think we could pick a team where we could be confident of getting a result against anyone. That doesn’t mean we would, in fact I very much doubt we would, but building that confidence would be key. I know what kind of team I would go for…

The only issue is 12… we really don’t have one. So we’d need to get creative there, IMO.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Coles
Curry, Dombrandt, Willis
Anyone but Youngs, Ford
Murley/Arundell, ?, Marchant, Watson/Freeman
Steward

Mako, LCD, Stuart, Chessum, Simmonds, SH, Smith, one of the wings from above.

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:51 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:33 am

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:39 pm

Yes I think we do. The Autumn series really isn't a good guide on the strength or potential in English rugby.

Which? You think we have 23 players we could pick now to confidently beat anyone in the world?
The autumn series may or may not be a good guide (the last three years are though), but what team would you be picking? I can see issues in every unit of the team, irrespective of who is coaching them.

I think we could pick a team where we could be confident of getting a result against anyone. That doesn’t mean we would, in fact I very much doubt we would, but building that confidence would be key. I know what kind of team I would go for…

The only issue is 12… we really don’t have one. So we’d need to get creative there, IMO.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Coles
Curry, Dombrandt, Willis
Anyone but Youngs, Ford
Murley/Arundell, ?, Marchant, Watson/Freeman
Steward

Mako, LCD, Stuart, Chessum, Simmonds, SH, Smith, one of the wings from above.

So you'd expect to beat SA with the same front rows that were annhilated at the weekend, without a tighthead lock. no scrumhalf or midfield and perms in a back 3

The original point was about having a 15 we were confident would beat anyone, rather than a confident XV

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:33 am

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:39 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:21 pm

Do we? As in we currently have 23 players we could pick and prepare and expect to beat everyone? Or that we have so many players it must be possible to develop that base over a short period into guaranteed world beaters? Either way, I don't agree tbh.

That said, we should be trying to win every game- its by far the best way to develop sides. Putting new players or new tactics into a winning team is much easier than if you are permanently buggering about and defending losing matches.

Yes I think we do. The Autumn series really isn't a good guide on the strength or potential in English rugby.

Which? You think we have 23 players we could pick now to confidently beat anyone in the world?
The autumn series may or may not be a good guide (the last three years are though), but what team would you be picking? I can see issues in every unit of the team, irrespective of who is coaching them.

Who are we playing?

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:34 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:11 am If asked to give an opinion on who was worse at his job, Jones or Sweeney, I'd be hard-pushed to decide. Sacking both today might be the best option.

What's your beef with Sweeney, dors?

Carter. Never really looked a ladies man.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:01 am

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:51 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:33 am

Which? You think we have 23 players we could pick now to confidently beat anyone in the world?
The autumn series may or may not be a good guide (the last three years are though), but what team would you be picking? I can see issues in every unit of the team, irrespective of who is coaching them.

I think we could pick a team where we could be confident of getting a result against anyone. That doesn’t mean we would, in fact I very much doubt we would, but building that confidence would be key. I know what kind of team I would go for…

The only issue is 12… we really don’t have one. So we’d need to get creative there, IMO.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Coles
Curry, Dombrandt, Willis
Anyone but Youngs, Ford
Murley/Arundell, ?, Marchant, Watson/Freeman
Steward

Mako, LCD, Stuart, Chessum, Simmonds, SH, Smith, one of the wings from above.

So you'd expect to beat SA with the same front rows that were annhilated at the weekend, without a tighthead lock. no scrumhalf or midfield and perms in a back 3

The original point was about having a 15 we were confident would beat anyone, rather than a confident XV

Just don’t drop the bloody ball.

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:20 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:01 am

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:51 am

I think we could pick a team where we could be confident of getting a result against anyone. That doesn’t mean we would, in fact I very much doubt we would, but building that confidence would be key. I know what kind of team I would go for…

The only issue is 12… we really don’t have one. So we’d need to get creative there, IMO.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Coles
Curry, Dombrandt, Willis
Anyone but Youngs, Ford
Murley/Arundell, ?, Marchant, Watson/Freeman
Steward

Mako, LCD, Stuart, Chessum, Simmonds, SH, Smith, one of the wings from above.

So you'd expect to beat SA with the same front rows that were annhilated at the weekend, without a tighthead lock. no scrumhalf or midfield and perms in a back 3

The original point was about having a 15 we were confident would beat anyone, rather than a confident XV

Just don’t drop the bloody ball.

Is this aimed at the England team, literally, or the RFU, metaphorically?

pandion wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:46 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:33 am

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:39 pm

Yes I think we do. The Autumn series really isn't a good guide on the strength or potential in English rugby.

Which? You think we have 23 players we could pick now to confidently beat anyone in the world?
The autumn series may or may not be a good guide (the last three years are though), but what team would you be picking? I can see issues in every unit of the team, irrespective of who is coaching them.

Who are we playing?

South Africa
France
New Zealand
Ireland

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:05 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:34 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:11 am If asked to give an opinion on who was worse at his job, Jones or Sweeney, I'd be hard-pushed to decide. Sacking both today might be the best option.

What's your beef with Sweeney, dors?

Carter. Never really looked a ladies man.

True. He could make it good for you though.

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:20 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:01 am

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:51 am

I think we could pick a team where we could be confident of getting a result against anyone. That doesn’t mean we would, in fact I very much doubt we would, but building that confidence would be key. I know what kind of team I would go for…

The only issue is 12… we really don’t have one. So we’d need to get creative there, IMO.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Coles
Curry, Dombrandt, Willis
Anyone but Youngs, Ford
Murley/Arundell, ?, Marchant, Watson/Freeman
Steward

Mako, LCD, Stuart, Chessum, Simmonds, SH, Smith, one of the wings from above.

So you'd expect to beat SA with the same front rows that were annhilated at the weekend, without a tighthead lock. no scrumhalf or midfield and perms in a back 3

The original point was about having a 15 we were confident would beat anyone, rather than a confident XV

Just don’t drop the bloody ball.

must confess I didn't entirely see that as the root cause of issues v SA.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:08 pm

pandion wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:46 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:33 am

Which? You think we have 23 players we could pick now to confidently beat anyone in the world?
The autumn series may or may not be a good guide (the last three years are though), but what team would you be picking? I can see issues in every unit of the team, irrespective of who is coaching them.

Who are we playing?

South Africa
France
New Zealand
Ireland

A Barbarians side, interesting

pandion wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:35 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:08 pm

pandion wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:46 am

Who are we playing?

South Africa
France
New Zealand
Ireland

A Barbarians side, interesting

Interesting way of dodging the question.

I reckon after 4 years with any other coach that team of 12 would not be booed off the pitch

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:44 pm I reckon after 4 years with any other coach that team of 12 would not be booed off the pitch

not even Gatland?

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:48 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:44 pm I reckon after 4 years with any other coach that team of 12 would not be booed off the pitch

not even Gatland?

Gatland would be getting booed in 4 matches, not 4 years

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:48 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:44 pm I reckon after 4 years with any other coach that team of 12 would not be booed off the pitch

not even Gatland?

Not even Gatland.

Just think Jones is out of his depth, like he was at the Queensland Reds.