Page 4 of 11
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:32 am
by Puja
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:43 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:13 pm
fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:36 pm
SB missed a trick by not having a look at Atkinson or Kelly, hence the shoehorning of players into 12 that are more naturally suited to 13.
Its where we are. If Porter comes good, then he makes himself an option for the final squad.
I'm really not sure either of them are ready for primetime yet. We're so keen to have a natural 12 that we see the best in everything they do and elide the bad moments.
Puja
what's a natural 12, out of interest?
In this instance, someone who plays there for his club and counts it as their position, rather than the latest in the line of "Sure, I bet he *could* do it. He's got the basic skills for it."
Puja
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:44 am
by Banquo
Puja wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:32 am
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:43 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:13 pm
I'm really not sure either of them are ready for primetime yet. We're so keen to have a natural 12 that we see the best in everything they do and elide the bad moments.
Puja
what's a natural 12, out of interest?
In this instance, someone who plays there for his club and counts it as their position, rather than the latest in the line of "Sure, I bet he *could* do it. He's got the basic skills for it."
Puja
Definitely a start

.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:07 pm
by Mikey Brown
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:37 am
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George Martin.
Agreed it’s a big day for the Harlequins 8-9-10 combo. We all know Marchant can’t defend like big Sladesey-o so there’s a bit less drama there.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:02 pm
by Puja
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:07 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:37 am
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George Martin.
From watching him play in his biggest step up so far - Leinster away - it's a little underwhelming but pleasing - he's not got an ego to making big tackles, so he's very unlikely to try and outmasculine a big runner and risk getting bounced. Much more likely to just take his legs away from him.
Puja
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:56 pm
by jngf
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:07 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:37 am
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:06 pm
by FKAS
Puja wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:02 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:07 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:37 am
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George Martin.
From watching him play in his biggest step up so far - Leinster away - it's a little underwhelming but pleasing - he's not got an ego to making big tackles, so he's very unlikely to try and outmasculine a big runner and risk getting bounced. Much more likely to just take his legs away from him.
Puja
I rather like having a big tackling player that prefers to cut the opposition in half and use leg drive to take them backwards than follow the rugby league style hit them at chest level, target the ball and knock them into next week approach. Given the tightening up on high tackles it really is more sensible.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:07 pm
by FKAS
jngf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:56 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:07 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:37 am
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)
Morgan is primarily an openside. Think Hamish Watson style pin ball carries. Wainwright is playing 8 for Wales at the weekend.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:51 pm
by Mikey Brown
jngf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:56 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:07 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:37 am
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)
This is a fantastic illustration of why people tend to base their opinions on the actions of players on the pitch, rather than the heights and weights that you read about online.
Would you rather tackle Billy Twelvetrees or Scott Gibbs?
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:07 pm
by jngf
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:51 pm
jngf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:56 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:07 pm
I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)
This is a fantastic illustration of why people tend to base their opinions on the actions of players on the pitch, rather than the heights and weights that you read about online.
Would you rather tackle Billy Twelvetrees or Scott Gibbs?
I think all I’m stating is Jac Morgan doesn’t have anything like the power of George Martin and it’s hard to divorce that from their respective vital statistics
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:39 pm
by Mellsblue
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:51 pm
jngf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:56 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:07 pm
I’d quite like to see what happens if Jac Morgan runs at George

Unless I’m missing something here? Jac Morgan (at 5’11” and 16 stone) is no more of a livathon 8 than Sam Simmonds is… and nowhere near the physical size of Martin (6’6” and 19 stone or thereabouts)
This is a fantastic illustration of why people tend to base their opinions on the actions of players on the pitch, rather than the heights and weights that you read about online.
Would you rather tackle Billy Twelvetrees or Scott Gibbs?
Scott Gibbs in his 50s now so… 12T.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:41 pm
by MrK
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:37 am
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
It’s not that mobile a pack- and outside of Stuart the Welsh front 5 is heavier than the England opposite number (on paper)
I’m not a size = power advocate, but out front row has been picked for scrummaging, not mobility.
Be interesting to see how it goes. Tshiunza needs a big game to make the 33.
Looking forward to seeing Llewelyn and hopefully Grady at some point.
For us it’s more about trying to find combinations and a game plan that at least gets us out of the group following a terrible 12 months.
I know it’s easy to say, and of course I always want to win, but if we put in a competitive performance and the new caps look comfortable I’ll take that .. if we get a dicking of course, i don’t know where we go
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:49 pm
by FKAS
MrK wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:41 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:37 am
This is where Care and Smith need to stake their claim. Wales have a mobile pack but we should be able to exert pressure at the set piece. Keep Wales in their half so their big midfield can't get them quick ball in dangerous areas, pile pressure on the young flyhalf Costelow.
Show their skill set at the right time and that they can manage an international game.
I do hope we have been practising with Martin stood out to line up big ball carriers coming down Smith's channel. It's a favourite Gatland Ball tactic and he's got the technique to stop it.
It’s not that mobile a pack- and outside of Stuart the Welsh front 5 is heavier than the England opposite number (on paper)
I’m not a size = power advocate, but out front row has been picked for scrummaging, not mobility.
Be interesting to see how it goes. Tshiunza needs a big game to make the 33.
Looking forward to seeing Llewelyn and hopefully Grady at some point.
For us it’s more about trying to find combinations and a game plan that at least gets us out of the group following a terrible 12 months.
I know it’s easy to say, and of course I always want to win, but if we put in a competitive performance and the new caps look comfortable I’ll take that .. if we get a dicking of course, i don’t know where we go
I was basing the mobile thing on seeing Rowlands, Jenkins and Christ play in the Prem. Happy to be corrected on the props, don't know much about them. Interesting if Wales target the scrum as England's tight five is pretty hefty for us. I'd expect them to be fairly secure at scrum time. If they aren't then we're going to have problems.
I think England will be more looking for some form and ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch as opposed to particular combinations.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:28 am
by 16th man
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:49 pm
ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch
Hang on, aren't we supposed to hide those things so that no one can think about them?
Anything more advanced than one out then boot it in the air is tantamount to giving a full press conference on all our backs moves.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:38 am
by Puja
16th man wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:28 am
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:49 pm
ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch
Hang on, aren't we supposed to hide those things so that no one can think about them?
Anything more advanced than one out then boot it in the air is tantamount to giving a full press conference on all our backs moves.
That's why Eddie's ahead of the game in losing all four of his pre-RWC matches - he ain't shown nobody nuffink.
Puja
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:46 am
by FKAS
Puja wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:38 am
16th man wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:28 am
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:49 pm
ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch
Hang on, aren't we supposed to hide those things so that no one can think about them?
Anything more advanced than one out then boot it in the air is tantamount to giving a full press conference on all our backs moves.
That's why Eddie's ahead of the game in losing all four of his pre-RWC matches - he ain't shown nobody nuffink.
Puja
When the Aussies come out playing like the rugby equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters we're all going to look rather silly for thinking he was past his best and merely talking shite to the media to try and explain away years of (at best) average rugby.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 1:03 pm
by Mellsblue
16th man wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:28 am
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:49 pm
ideas from training camp coming together on the pitch
Hang on, aren't we supposed to hide those things so that no one can think about them?
Anything more advanced than one out then boot it in the air is tantamount to giving a full press conference on all our backs moves.
That is our backs move…
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:06 pm
by 16th man
The French appear to have contracted whatever brain malaise it is we have that makes us kick through every time we're within 10 metres of the line.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:22 pm
by Mellsblue
Fark me. The Habana Sage advert is back.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:24 pm
by Mr Mwenda
C'mon England, take it to 'em!
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:24 pm
by Danno
Andy Goode

Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:33 pm
by Mr Mwenda
The simple England kit is good.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:34 pm
by 16th man
Bloody hell, blocking a chaser getting pinged.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:42 pm
by 16th man
Ribbans not trying to catch it we can forgive, no idea what Porter thought he was doing.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:48 pm
by jngf
Ludlam & Pearson playing left and right flanker system. Ribbans at tighthead lock and Martin at loose head lock. Good looking combinations so far.
Re: Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:54 pm
by Mellsblue
Coka still shoite under the high ball then