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I still say (boring, I know) that it should be salary cap reduction/limit OR a ban on France-based players - not both together. It's like English rugby has a death wish.
Nothing like piling on the pressure for the RFU to bring in hybrid contracts. £400k a year plus £20k a time to play for England isn't exactly poor remuneration.fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:40 am "Maro Itoje is facing a major career dilemma, after being offered a new contract by Saracens worth around 50 per cent of his current deal, which is due to expire at the end of this season.
The 29-year-old England lock is believed to earn approximately £800,000 per year, as one of the highest-paid players in the country, but Mail Sport understands that his club have only been able to offer him £400,000-£425,000 per year to extend his stay.
This is because a change to the salary cap regulations means clubs can now only designate one ‘marquee’ player, rather than the previous two, and Owen Farrell – also out of contract in the summer – will retain that category at Saracens"
Itoje is a top player and one that Saracens would be very foolish to lose, but 800K a year to play rugby?
He has indeed been sacked and to be replaced by Patrice Collazo, who's just been sacked by Brive!francoisfou wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:53 am Richard Cockerill's days as head coach of Montpellier may be numbered.
Montpellier, who were Top14 champions in 2022, won their first match of this season but have lost the last six and are sitting two points adrift at the bottom of the table.
Bernard Laporte, who was handed a two-year suspended prison sentence for corruption in December 2022, has been appointed Director of Rugby by Montpellier President Mohed Altrad, who simultaneously was given an 18-month suspended sentence in the same affair of an allegedly crooked shirt sponsor deal for the French XV!
Altrad has called a club meeting for this afternoon, presumably to confirm the appointment of Laporte, and maybe the departure of Cockerill?
For the record, there are three Brits in the squad, Harry Williams, Sam Simmonds and Elliot Stooke, who'll is due to rejoin Bath in the near future.
Madness by Saracens, and not just for the fact that they've looked at a binary choice between Fazlet and Itoje and decided to keep Fazlet. They've known full-well that this was coming up and still kept both TWillis and BillyV, signed in Gonzalez and Cinti. They should've been stockpiling salary cap to keep both - hells, if they'd gone to £650k, that'd probably have been enough, but offering half is an insult for a player of Itoje's quality.fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:40 am "Maro Itoje is facing a major career dilemma, after being offered a new contract by Saracens worth around 50 per cent of his current deal, which is due to expire at the end of this season.
The 29-year-old England lock is believed to earn approximately £800,000 per year, as one of the highest-paid players in the country, but Mail Sport understands that his club have only been able to offer him £400,000-£425,000 per year to extend his stay.
This is because a change to the salary cap regulations means clubs can now only designate one ‘marquee’ player, rather than the previous two, and Owen Farrell – also out of contract in the summer – will retain that category at Saracens"
Itoje is a top player and one that Saracens would be very foolish to lose, but 800K a year to play rugby?
BillyV is out of contract next summer.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:26 pmMadness by Saracens, and not just for the fact that they've looked at a binary choice between Fazlet and Itoje and decided to keep Fazlet. They've known full-well that this was coming up and still kept both TWillis and BillyV, signed in Gonzalez and Cinti. They should've been stockpiling salary cap to keep both - hells, if they'd gone to £650k, that'd probably have been enough, but offering half is an insult for a player of Itoje's quality.fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:40 am "Maro Itoje is facing a major career dilemma, after being offered a new contract by Saracens worth around 50 per cent of his current deal, which is due to expire at the end of this season.
The 29-year-old England lock is believed to earn approximately £800,000 per year, as one of the highest-paid players in the country, but Mail Sport understands that his club have only been able to offer him £400,000-£425,000 per year to extend his stay.
This is because a change to the salary cap regulations means clubs can now only designate one ‘marquee’ player, rather than the previous two, and Owen Farrell – also out of contract in the summer – will retain that category at Saracens"
Itoje is a top player and one that Saracens would be very foolish to lose, but 800K a year to play rugby?
Puja
It will be interesting to see if all their current back rowers are still there then.FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:04 pmBillyV is out of contract next summer.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:26 pmMadness by Saracens, and not just for the fact that they've looked at a binary choice between Fazlet and Itoje and decided to keep Fazlet. They've known full-well that this was coming up and still kept both TWillis and BillyV, signed in Gonzalez and Cinti. They should've been stockpiling salary cap to keep both - hells, if they'd gone to £650k, that'd probably have been enough, but offering half is an insult for a player of Itoje's quality.fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:40 am "Maro Itoje is facing a major career dilemma, after being offered a new contract by Saracens worth around 50 per cent of his current deal, which is due to expire at the end of this season.
The 29-year-old England lock is believed to earn approximately £800,000 per year, as one of the highest-paid players in the country, but Mail Sport understands that his club have only been able to offer him £400,000-£425,000 per year to extend his stay.
This is because a change to the salary cap regulations means clubs can now only designate one ‘marquee’ player, rather than the previous two, and Owen Farrell – also out of contract in the summer – will retain that category at Saracens"
Itoje is a top player and one that Saracens would be very foolish to lose, but 800K a year to play rugby?
Puja
I'd have thought BillyV would head over to France for a chunky deal whilst he can still land one. 32 and with a reputation for attritional, relentless carrying should land him a nice deal with a mid to low table French side. Land a three year deal and that'll see him into retirement.Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:26 pmIt will be interesting to see if all their current back rowers are still there then.FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:04 pmBillyV is out of contract next summer.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:26 pm
Madness by Saracens, and not just for the fact that they've looked at a binary choice between Fazlet and Itoje and decided to keep Fazlet. They've known full-well that this was coming up and still kept both TWillis and BillyV, signed in Gonzalez and Cinti. They should've been stockpiling salary cap to keep both - hells, if they'd gone to £650k, that'd probably have been enough, but offering half is an insult for a player of Itoje's quality.
Puja
Then how in the name of gods are they having to lowball Itoje?! Surely they can fit him in, if they don't renew either Vunipolae?FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:04 pmBillyV is out of contract next summer.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:26 pmMadness by Saracens, and not just for the fact that they've looked at a binary choice between Fazlet and Itoje and decided to keep Fazlet. They've known full-well that this was coming up and still kept both TWillis and BillyV, signed in Gonzalez and Cinti. They should've been stockpiling salary cap to keep both - hells, if they'd gone to £650k, that'd probably have been enough, but offering half is an insult for a player of Itoje's quality.fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:40 am "Maro Itoje is facing a major career dilemma, after being offered a new contract by Saracens worth around 50 per cent of his current deal, which is due to expire at the end of this season.
The 29-year-old England lock is believed to earn approximately £800,000 per year, as one of the highest-paid players in the country, but Mail Sport understands that his club have only been able to offer him £400,000-£425,000 per year to extend his stay.
This is because a change to the salary cap regulations means clubs can now only designate one ‘marquee’ player, rather than the previous two, and Owen Farrell – also out of contract in the summer – will retain that category at Saracens"
Itoje is a top player and one that Saracens would be very foolish to lose, but 800K a year to play rugby?
Puja
To be fair where are you going to replace Farrell on the open market? £400k might get you a good flyhalf but the top tier ones tend to be over £500k. There's no readymade replacement at Sarries or young tyro that's obviously available in the Prem for them to go and acquire.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:54 pmThen how in the name of gods are they having to lowball Itoje?! Surely they can fit him in, if they don't renew either Vunipolae?FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:04 pmBillyV is out of contract next summer.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:26 pm
Madness by Saracens, and not just for the fact that they've looked at a binary choice between Fazlet and Itoje and decided to keep Fazlet. They've known full-well that this was coming up and still kept both TWillis and BillyV, signed in Gonzalez and Cinti. They should've been stockpiling salary cap to keep both - hells, if they'd gone to £650k, that'd probably have been enough, but offering half is an insult for a player of Itoje's quality.
Puja
Just feels like a bizarre choice - you cannot acquire a player of Itoje's quality on the open market without spending a heck of a lot more, and it's not like they have a young thruster ready to replace him.
Puja
Problem is every player due for renewal knows that. Sarries have also used the loophole and still have two marquee players. With Itoje rumoured to be on north of £800k that would immediately eat through most of the cap increase before they look after anybody else.
I wasn't so much thinking of replacing Farrell, as much as the impossibility of replacing Itoje and therefore you should aim to keep both. There's few enough top-class players out there and Saracens could afford to lose some of their squad quality and still be more than covered, especially with the quality of players without a contract. They don't *need* TWillis, Earl, BillyV, Gonzalez, McFarland, and Christie all competing for 3 starting back row spaces.FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:36 pmTo be fair where are you going to replace Farrell on the open market? £400k might get you a good flyhalf but the top tier ones tend to be over £500k. There's no readymade replacement at Sarries or young tyro that's obviously available in the Prem for them to go and acquire.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:54 pmThen how in the name of gods are they having to lowball Itoje?! Surely they can fit him in, if they don't renew either Vunipolae?
Just feels like a bizarre choice - you cannot acquire a player of Itoje's quality on the open market without spending a heck of a lot more, and it's not like they have a young thruster ready to replace him.
Puja
Ben Healy, Joe Simmonds, Handre Pollard, George Ford, Marcus Smith, Finn Russell, Fin Smith and Libbok are all under contract. French and Irish flyhalfs won't head over, Kiwi flyhalfs seemingly only go to Japan now. What does that leave? Bringing Anscombe back to the UK, Hastings from Glaws, Paddy Jackson the PR nightmare, Garbisi might be available not sure.
Getting a direct replacement for Itoje is almost impossible but for £400k you could acquire a good one or possibly two. For instance Jacques du Plessis would be available next summer and there's a guy who's quality (he'd have 50 odd caps if he was English) and could suit Sarries down to the ground.
Yeah I'd cut both Vunipolas loose with a view to using the spare cap on Itoje personally. They have cover at 8 with TWillis and Earl. Loosehead they've got West, Mawi and Adams-Hale. Depth in the squad is there.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:58 pmI wasn't so much thinking of replacing Farrell, as much as the impossibility of replacing Itoje and therefore you should aim to keep both. There's few enough top-class players out there and Saracens could afford to lose some of their squad quality and still be more than covered, especially with the quality of players without a contract. They don't *need* TWillis, Earl, BillyV, Gonzalez, McFarland, and Christie all competing for 3 starting back row spaces.FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:36 pmTo be fair where are you going to replace Farrell on the open market? £400k might get you a good flyhalf but the top tier ones tend to be over £500k. There's no readymade replacement at Sarries or young tyro that's obviously available in the Prem for them to go and acquire.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:54 pm
Then how in the name of gods are they having to lowball Itoje?! Surely they can fit him in, if they don't renew either Vunipolae?
Just feels like a bizarre choice - you cannot acquire a player of Itoje's quality on the open market without spending a heck of a lot more, and it's not like they have a young thruster ready to replace him.
Puja
Ben Healy, Joe Simmonds, Handre Pollard, George Ford, Marcus Smith, Finn Russell, Fin Smith and Libbok are all under contract. French and Irish flyhalfs won't head over, Kiwi flyhalfs seemingly only go to Japan now. What does that leave? Bringing Anscombe back to the UK, Hastings from Glaws, Paddy Jackson the PR nightmare, Garbisi might be available not sure.
Getting a direct replacement for Itoje is almost impossible but for £400k you could acquire a good one or possibly two. For instance Jacques du Plessis would be available next summer and there's a guy who's quality (he'd have 50 odd caps if he was English) and could suit Sarries down to the ground.
Puja
Don’t think he’s been in the Lyon match day squad recently. He may be injured?
No matter how you analyse it, for any player to be offered half his current salary by his employer is quite an insulting smack in the chops,especially one of Itoje's quality.FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:42 pm What's also worth noting that if Itoje is on between £400k and £450k on his new deal then once you add on the £200k he'd get from 10 internationals it's £600k to £650k. Inconvenience of moving he's going to be telling his agent he'll want minimum £700k a season that's 800k in Euros, still less than he earns now. He's going to be one of the highest paid players in the world irrelevant of what league. How many clubs have the spare cap to fit in that kind of cost?
You presume Racing will be eying up a flyhalf next summer. Montpellier are a basket case he'd be mad to go there. Toulouse don't tend to go in for many big signings as they use their budget to keep what they have together, La Rochelle are similar. So Toulon maybe. Japan might be an option.
It's true. You wouldn't blame him for telling his agent to go out and see what teams elsewhere are offering.Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:06 pmNo matter how you analyse it, for any player to be offered half his current salary by his employer is quite an insulting smack in the chops,especially one of Itoje's quality.FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:42 pm What's also worth noting that if Itoje is on between £400k and £450k on his new deal then once you add on the £200k he'd get from 10 internationals it's £600k to £650k. Inconvenience of moving he's going to be telling his agent he'll want minimum £700k a season that's 800k in Euros, still less than he earns now. He's going to be one of the highest paid players in the world irrelevant of what league. How many clubs have the spare cap to fit in that kind of cost?
You presume Racing will be eying up a flyhalf next summer. Montpellier are a basket case he'd be mad to go there. Toulouse don't tend to go in for many big signings as they use their budget to keep what they have together, La Rochelle are similar. So Toulon maybe. Japan might be an option.