RugbyRebels

I didn't expect to come away disappointed at losing that match, genuinely thinking our inexperience would result in a mullering. As it was, a combination at (at times) very good England defence, and their inexperience cost Wales the win.

Addressing a few points, not out of annoyance: Ford definitely leaned into Dyer after the ball was plainly lost. I don't think it would have materially affected the result but it was a penalty and probably a yellow. The pass to Dingwall for his try was probably forward. I'm not sure Wales would have been able to ground the ball for their penalty try as Itoje got under it. The yellow was justified though. The other yellow should have been a strsight red because he led with his shoulder.

Wales wasted too many opportunities that a more experienced team would have put away. Having said that, one of Wales's most experienced players, Adams, butchered an almost certain try by passing too late and inaccurately to Dyer.

These are the things that happen in rugby. It's over. Move on.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:20 pm We are missing LRZ just a little bit.

Swap in any two of LRZ, Morgan, Faletau, Lake, and Anscombe, and we're on 2/2.

This is the reality of "development"; defeat. I believe that the team is growing through all of this, but these aren't friendlies, and those Ls are never going to go away.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:20 pm We are missing LRZ just a little bit.

Totally. The sooner we can get him back the better. If ever

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:50 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:40 pm

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:13 pm ACTUAL TEAM

Thomas
Dee
Assirati
Jenkins
Beard
Mann
Reffell
Wainright
Williams
Lloyd
Dyer
Tompkins
North
Adams
Winnett
Bench
Elias Domachowski Griffin Rowlands Basham Hardy Evans Grady

I'm pretty pleased with that. Particularly the half backs, and the return of North. I would swap Adams and Grady, and maybe have Martin on the bench instead of Basham, but overall it looks strong.

I think we could win this.

Then again, Grady is just made to run at tired defenders when the game opens up. I expect Adams has had a rocket and is being backed to respond.

This grady comment scored -12 on my fantasy rugby team, I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious

The stats:

WALES Tackles, Missed Tackles, Passes, Runs, Metres Run
C WinnettFB 1 0 4 9 34
J AdamsW 2 0 1 3 46
G NorthC 1 1 1 9 22
N TompkinsC 5 4 14 10 5
R DyerW 4 2 3 4 28
I LloydFH 4 2 14 10 23
T WilliamsSH 9 1 65 3 14
G ThomasP 6 1 0 7 1
E DeeH 6 0 3 7 1
K AssirattiP 3 0 3 1 0
D JenkinsL 7 2 5 7 8
A BeardL 4 1 2 3 4
A MannFL 7 2 1 8 27
T ReffellFL 14 1 1 8 15
A WainwrightN8 9 0 6 13 5
R EliasR 5 1 0 4 2
C DomachowskiR 4 1 0 2 2
A GriffinR 5 1 0 3 0
W RowlandsR 1 0 0 2 4
T BashamR 3 0 1 4 0
K HardyR 2 1 21 1 7
C EvansR 0 0 0 0 0
M GradyR 0 0 0 1 4

Not many stand out figures. Reffell was top tackler (14 tackles, 1 missed), no one else in double figures. Quite a few missed tackles overall, Tompkins worst (5,4).

Match stats are pretty even because it was a pretty even match.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=180659

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:21 pm I didn't expect to come away disappointed at losing that match, genuinely thinking our inexperience would result in a mullering. As it was, a combination at (at times) very good England defence, and their inexperience cost Wales the win.

Addressing a few points, not out of annoyance: Ford definitely leaned into Dyer after the ball was plainly lost. I don't think it would have materially affected the result but it was a penalty and probably a yellow. The pass to Dingwall for his try was probably forward. I'm not sure Wales would have been able to ground the ball for their penalty try as Itoje got under it. The yellow was justified though. The other yellow should have been a strsight red because he led with his shoulder.

Wales wasted too many opportunities that a more experienced team would have put away. Having said that, one of Wales's most experienced players, Adams, butchered an almost certain try by passing too late and inaccurately to Dyer.

These are the things that happen in rugby. It's over. Move on.

Yep, I was not looking forward to this game, but it was very competitive and the team did us proud considering their inexperience. There are some positives emerging, Winnett at full back, Jenkins as lock and captain, Dyers continued good form, Lloyd is learning, Wainwright at no8.

We need to build some depth particularly at prop and fly half. The game against Ireland will be a real indication of how we are progressing. I am expecting that to be a hard game to watch

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:39 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:50 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:40 pm
I'm pretty pleased with that. Particularly the half backs, and the return of North. I would swap Adams and Grady, and maybe have Martin on the bench instead of Basham, but overall it looks strong.

I think we could win this.

Then again, Grady is just made to run at tired defenders when the game opens up. I expect Adams has had a rocket and is being backed to respond.

This grady comment scored -12 on my fantasy rugby team, I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious

Grady is fast becoming a Campese type player. He always makes someone happy, but it might not be his own team and supporters.

Sourdust wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:27 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:20 pm We are missing LRZ just a little bit.

Swap in any two of LRZ, Morgan, Faletau, Lake, and Anscombe, and we're on 2/2.

This is the reality of "development"; defeat. I believe that the team is growing through all of this, but these aren't friendlies, and those Ls are never going to go away.

I doubt that Morgan would have done better than Reffell today (although in general I would pick Morgan), and I have doubts over Lake's lineout accuracy. But the others, definitely. And Liam Williams under the high ball, in the second half? Imagine. And Francis?? Jeez.

But yeah, no one remembers the personnel. Just the result.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:49 pm

Sourdust wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:27 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:20 pm We are missing LRZ just a little bit.

Swap in any two of LRZ, Morgan, Faletau, Lake, and Anscombe, and we're on 2/2.

This is the reality of "development"; defeat. I believe that the team is growing through all of this, but these aren't friendlies, and those Ls are never going to go away.

I doubt that Morgan would have done better than Reffell today (although in general I would pick Morgan), and I have doubts over Lake's lineout accuracy. But the others, definitely. And Liam Williams under the high ball, in the second half? Imagine. And Francis?? Jeez.

But yeah, no one remembers the personnel. Just the result.

The Cardiff/Iranian lad aswell. Will he ever be back

(Apologies can't remember his name)

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:44 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:21 pm I didn't expect to come away disappointed at losing that match, genuinely thinking our inexperience would result in a mullering. As it was, a combination at (at times) very good England defence, and their inexperience cost Wales the win.

Addressing a few points, not out of annoyance: Ford definitely leaned into Dyer after the ball was plainly lost. I don't think it would have materially affected the result but it was a penalty and probably a yellow. The pass to Dingwall for his try was probably forward. I'm not sure Wales would have been able to ground the ball for their penalty try as Itoje got under it. The yellow was justified though. The other yellow should have been a strsight red because he led with his shoulder.

Wales wasted too many opportunities that a more experienced team would have put away. Having said that, one of Wales's most experienced players, Adams, butchered an almost certain try by passing too late and inaccurately to Dyer.

These are the things that happen in rugby. It's over. Move on.

Yep, I was not looking forward to this game, but it was very competitive and the team did us proud considering their inexperience. There are some positives emerging, Winnett at full back, Jenkins as lock and captain, Dyers continued good form, Lloyd is learning, Wainwright at no8.

We need to build some depth particularly at prop and fly half. The game against Ireland will be a real indication of how we are progressing. I am expecting that to be a hard game to watch

I'm going to check if there's anything in my contract that says that I have to watch that one.

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:52 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:49 pm

Sourdust wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:27 pm

Swap in any two of LRZ, Morgan, Faletau, Lake, and Anscombe, and we're on 2/2.

This is the reality of "development"; defeat. I believe that the team is growing through all of this, but these aren't friendlies, and those Ls are never going to go away.

I doubt that Morgan would have done better than Reffell today (although in general I would pick Morgan), and I have doubts over Lake's lineout accuracy. But the others, definitely. And Liam Williams under the high ball, in the second half? Imagine. And Francis?? Jeez.

But yeah, no one remembers the personnel. Just the result.

The Cardiff/Iranian lad aswell. Will he ever be back

(Apologies can't remember his name)

Navidi. I don’t think he will now, in fact I think he as retired. We haven’t had a decent blindside since he was playing.

Gutted that we've lost narrowly 2 weeks on a row, but then I didn't expect us to be that close in either game.

The changes in the front row seemed to be significant, the lineout and scrum seemed to suffer after that. Still, another half when we didnt score.

But we are where we are, and at least we have something to build on.

Overall a positive outcome, the players will again have picked up some invauable experience, playing away at Twickenham is not easy for any team yet alone a group as raw as ours. I'm pleased with the the way the starting front row performed, solid against a strong Ebgland scrum, Reffell was easily MOM, several trunovers, 1 clean break, 3 defenders beaten, best tackler also and 15 metres gained the most of our forwards other than Mann, he has been imperious over the last two games for us.

I'm also liking Daff Jankins as Captain, I think I'd keep him as Captain now what with Lake and Morgan being regular casualties of injury.

Cam Winnett is coming along nisely and Lloyd made a few errors but also put in some excellent crossfield kicks and a great pass to put Winnett through, he has been criticsied for running it from his own line but you can see him screaming to Tomos Williams and opiting to the other side of the ruck before he basicaly gives him a hospital pass and he gets turned over by Itoje, you would hyave thought that Williams being the vastly more experienced player would have put the ball into the stands or given it to a forward to setup that option. I'd still have Costelow in, if fit, for the next game as he has far more experience at this level. I thought Adams was better but he doesn#'t look the same threat in attack at the moment so maybe a chance for Grady to get a run out (I think it's a little harsh critcising him for the knock-on as it was pretty much a nailed on England try had he not knocked it on.) Tompkins for all his endeavour is not having a great deal of impact so far this championships, we don't have a great deal of options tho at 12, it's a shame Llewellyn is no longer in contention tho he hasn't been starting for Gloucester anyway, Harri Ackerman looks like he could be good enough maybe next season.

Anyway, all in all I was pleasantly surprised by the performance we put on, the weight of expectation is always high but that has to be tempered with some realism sometimes.

Daff...... Jesus wept. Its Daf (single F pronounced as a V) Why can't people get this right?

Also i used to play rugby with Tommy Reffell dad. Its pronounced Reffle as in Waffle not REF FELL ffs even Shane Williams gets it right! ..... ran't over

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:25 am Daff...... Jesus wept. Its Daf (single fF pronounced as a V) Why can't people get this right?

Also i used to play rugby with Tommy Reffell dad. Its pronounced Reffle as in Waffle not REF FELL ffs even Shane Williams gets it right! ..... ran't over

Great insight as usual, anything to comment on about the rugby?

Daff (sic) to remain captain after two games over Jac Morgan....... Costellow in if fit...... Ackerman in next season....

I am still trying to get my head around these pearls of wisdom a minute.

Can't believe I'm saying it but fair point from Woodward:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-28614689

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:12 pm Daff (sic) to remain captain after two games over Jac Morgan....... Costellow in if fit...... Ackerman in next season....

I am still trying to get my head around these pearls of wisdom a minute.

Jenkins has more experience as a Captain tho doesn't he and doesn't get injured every 5 minutes, Costelow is first choice 10 at the Scarlets in front of Lloyd and Ackerman shows promise.

How about putting together a counter argument?

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:50 pm Can't believe I'm saying it but fair point from Woodward:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-28614689

I'd say that it's a fair point regarding Dee but Assiratti was blowing out of his arse and Genge had just come on.

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:07 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:50 pm Can't believe I'm saying it but fair point from Woodward:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-28614689

I'd say that it's a fair point regarding Dee but Assiratti was blowing out of his arse and Genge had just come on.

I know the papers have been assuming Asseratti was tiring because he was taken off, but I didn't notice it myself. And is putting on a totally green, lifted-from-obscurity prop for 25 vital minutes at Twickenham a wise move (especially when we could have had Dillon Lewis on the bench)?

Jac Morgan has been absolutely outstanding in his role as captain of Wales, he had a fantastic World Cup. (I am not sure he is injured every five minutes) A real leader who has been lauded from all corners of the rugby globe. Not disrespecting Daff (sic) he has come into a Wales side which is inexperienced, and he is still finding his own way at test level, he has done ok but, lets not sugar coat this, he has presided over two losses which could and should have been wins. Not his fault per se but at his tender age i think he needs to be left to his own game . That said, he will probably become a great captain of Wales, but not yet for me, and certainly not at the expense of Jac Morgan.

Costellow, I have never been a fan. His defensive game is poor, and he kicks aimlessly and makes unforced errors, no game control either. Reminds me of a Colin Stephens, not convinced by Lloyd either but for me he is the best of a bad bunch. Scarlets are poor and have been for a number of seasons and both of theses lads play there. That said the cupboard seems to be bare atm.

Ackerman, done ok for20's v Scotland and was part of a poor effort v England last Friday (although Wales scrum was like an MFI wardrobe). Nothing there to say he can step up.

No agenda from me - just call it as i see it. I do not support any of the regions although want them all to do well.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:48 pm

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:07 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:50 pm Can't believe I'm saying it but fair point from Woodward:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... g-28614689

I'd say that it's a fair point regarding Dee but Assiratti was blowing out of his arse and Genge had just come on.

I know the papers have been assuming Asseratti was tiring because he was taken off, but I didn't notice it myself. And is putting on a totally green, lifted-from-obscurity prop for 25 vital minutes at Twickenham a wise move (especially when we could have had Dillon Lewis on the bench)?

Asiiratti was blowing up and a fresh Genge would have been a big ask. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and Dillon Lewis couldn't push my granny off a greasy bed! I think Dee could have stayed for longer but by all accounts Elias is a very strong scrummager so i see the rationale of putting him on with Archie G.

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:53 pm Jac Morgan has been absolutely outstanding in his role as captain of Wales, he had a fantastic World Cup. (I am not sure he is injured every five minutes) A real leader who has been lauded from all corners of the rugby globe. Not disrespecting Daff (sic) he has come into a Wales side which is inexperienced, and he is still finding his own way at test level, he has done ok but, lets not sugar coat this, he has presided over two losses which could and should have been wins. Not his fault per se but at his tender age i think he needs to be left to his own game . That said, he will probably become a great captain of Wales, but not yet for me, and certainly not at the expense of Jac Morgan.

Costellow, I have never been a fan. His defensive game is poor, and he kicks aimlessly and makes unforced errors, no game control either. Reminds me of a Colin Stephens, not convinced by Lloyd either but for me he is the best of a bad bunch. Scarlets are poor and have been for a number of seasons and both of theses lads play there. That said the cupboard seems to be bare atm.

Ackerman, done ok for20's v Scotland and was part of a poor effort v England last Friday (although Wales scrum was like an MFI wardrobe). Nothing there to say he can step up.

No agenda from me - just call it as i see it. I do not support any of the regions although want them all to do well.

I'm not disputing Jac Morgan's obvious talents, the fact of the matter is Jenkins captains Exeter week in week out and does a very good job of it, he is also rarely injured, I think it's about consistency as much as anything else, I am also referring to Lake when I refer to injuries, as we can see at the moment neither of them are available.

You say he has presided over two losses, two losses where 90% of the welsh public thought we'd lose by a great deal more..

Costelow is a very good player which is plain to see for most people, Lloyd hasn't had enough time in the 10 shirt to get the hang of the position at the top level, he's only had a handful of regional games at 10 when Costelow was injured and next to no game time at 10 for Bristol for 2 years. I think soem perspective may be required with this, they both play for the Scarlets behind a beaten pack most weeks so I'm not sure how you expect them to shine, the same goes for Wales to a slightly lesser extent.

Ackerman shows promise and has played for the Dragons this season and didn't look out of depth at regional level, he's a big strong lad and obviously has a decent rugby brain if he is the U20s captain, I'm not suggesting putting him to play against Ireland ffs.

I have no agenda regarding players or clubs just that I'd like to see our strongest team on the pitch and I can tell you now that Costelow is (quite obviously) further down the path than Lloyd, that's not to say Lloyd couldn't overtake him in the future but not at the moment.

Serious question. What does Costellow offer which makes him "a very good player which is plain to see to most people" I have played a decent level and coached successfully so like to think i know a bit about the game.... I think he is erratic, weak in defence and cannot control a game. I have not seen a lot of Lloyd if i am being honest but Costellow is miles off it in my opinion and Lloyd, although not the answer, offers more in respect of getting the backline going. Obv has flaws but he does offer something.

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:48 pm Serious question. What does Costellow offer which makes him "a very good player which is plain to see to most people" I have played a decent level and coached successfully so like to think i know a bit about the game.... I think he is erratic, weak in defence and cannot control a game. I have not seen a lot of Lloyd if i am being honest but Costellow is miles off it in my opinion and Lloyd, although not the answer, offers more in respect of getting the backline going. Obv has flaws but he does offer something.

His defence is very good for his size, he gets stuck in, he takes the ball to the attacking line very well, his kicking has improved immeasurably over the last two seasons both from hand and from the tee and he can make a break with excellent acceleration and a decent step. He can control a game better than Lloyd who wants to do something special everytime he has the ball, Lloyd has made a good fist of the 10 role at regional level but he doesn't have much in the way of game management at the moment which is required for test level.

There's not a huge amount in it, but as can be seen from both the regional and international coaches selections he is the preferred option at 10 over Lloyd, I don't purport to know more than professional coaches about this.

Here are some highlights for you: