England vs Wales - minute-by-minute

[Mellsblue]

Selecting B-B probably cost France that game.

Before the 6N Freeman had played four times for England, including one game against the Baabaas, he wasn't a known quantity at international level.

I'm not a Daly fan and if you look back I wouldn't have picked him for the Italy or Wales games but he played well against Wales and Borthwick's decision is reasonable in the context of the backline.

If we can get the set up sorted so the team is playing more cohesively then hopefully we can transition on some of the younger guys over the summer.

Probably but I’ve already said I think it’s a red herring so, imo, isn’t a relevant point for debate.

Yes, I know Freeman only has a handful of caps - I did allude to it in my post - but it was clear he was a test player just from those caps.

He may have played well but I’ll repeat my point that against Italy and a crap version of Wales we shouldn’t need an end career Daly on the wing to help us win. Imo, it’s a bit like the pyrrhic victory in the 2020 autumn comp in microcosm. It got us a win at the time but stunted development long term.

I wouldn’t change the team now but, as above, I wouldn’t have started where we did.

Then we agree. We'd have both picked someone else but the Borthwick selection does make sense.

I don’t think it made sense. That’s my entire point.

[Oakboy]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.
- The attack still has moments of incohesion, but we are creating chances and actually trying things. I'm willing to give it a bit more time.
- The defensive system is coming together and looks to be an absolute weapon. Still got plenty of errors in it, but if we can get that right, it's going to be a menace.
- Stuart, Dingwall, Care, and Daly all had much better games than reported, although I would still replace the latter on the basis that IFW is the young thruster available to take over.
- CCS is going to be some player. I don't know if I'd start him yet, but he's a weapon to bring off the bench and is certainly looking to the manner born. Good selection call by Straw Berryman.

Puja

Puja, do you see our overall game plan as too regimented? Mercer's performance yesterday left so many questions and it's tempting to wonder if he simply does not fit a play-it-by-numbers regime.

My other question - only a minor issue - is the lack of anything original from first phase. It somehow seems a contradiction in terms to discourage flair on the one hand but not have some slick and different routine from the training ground.

That leads to the last question. Will we see substantial improvement following a two week stint in training? I think fans are entitled to expect that.

[Puja]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.
- The attack still has moments of incohesion, but we are creating chances and actually trying things. I'm willing to give it a bit more time.
- The defensive system is coming together and looks to be an absolute weapon. Still got plenty of errors in it, but if we can get that right, it's going to be a menace.
- Stuart, Dingwall, Care, and Daly all had much better games than reported, although I would still replace the latter on the basis that IFW is the young thruster available to take over.
- CCS is going to be some player. I don't know if I'd start him yet, but he's a weapon to bring off the bench and is certainly looking to the manner born. Good selection call by Straw Berryman.

Puja

Puja, do you see our overall game plan as too regimented? Mercer's performance yesterday left so many questions and it's tempting to wonder if he simply does not fit a play-it-by-numbers regime.

My other question - only a minor issue - is the lack of anything original from first phase. It somehow seems a contradiction in terms to discourage flair on the one hand but not have some slick and different routine from the training ground.

That leads to the last question. Will we see substantial improvement following a two week stint in training? I think fans are entitled to expect that.

It does seem very regimented - a lot of the times the backs are falling into set plays and patterns. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does require them to be accurate and requires more cohesion than we've seen so far. I wonder what a more mercurial talent like Smith would've added to the situation, given that he was allegedly Strict Ballhandling's first choice.

I would agree that we need to see substantial improvement for the Scotland game. They'll've been in camp for nearly 5 weeks and played 2 games - if they're not able to bring out a performance at that point, then there's something seriously wrong. No excuses.

Puja

[p/d]

Great news on the attacking rucks. Just a shame we have conceded more tries than scored against the 2 weakest sides.

I don’t believe our backs are creating many opportunities without the boot

[Puja]

We have made a good number of clean breaks though. The opportunities are coming - we've just lacked the composure to finish them off.

Puja

[Banquo]

We have made a good number of clean breaks though. The opportunities are coming - we've just lacked the composure to finish them off.

Puja

... and/or skill?

5 clean breaks to wales 4 btw (both are better than Scotland v France). The metres ball in hand is a concern. for me

[Scrumhead]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.
- The attack still has moments of incohesion, but we are creating chances and actually trying things. I'm willing to give it a bit more time.
- The defensive system is coming together and looks to be an absolute weapon. Still got plenty of errors in it, but if we can get that right, it's going to be a menace.
- Stuart, Dingwall, Care, and Daly all had much better games than reported, although I would still replace the latter on the basis that IFW is the young thruster available to take over.
- CCS is going to be some player. I don't know if I'd start him yet, but he's a weapon to bring off the bench and is certainly looking to the manner born. Good selection call by Straw Berryman.

Puja

Puja, do you see our overall game plan as too regimented? Mercer's performance yesterday left so many questions and it's tempting to wonder if he simply does not fit a play-it-by-numbers regime.

My other question - only a minor issue - is the lack of anything original from first phase. It somehow seems a contradiction in terms to discourage flair on the one hand but not have some slick and different routine from the training ground.

That leads to the last question. Will we see substantial improvement following a two week stint in training? I think fans are entitled to expect that.

Why does Mercer’s performance against a hotch potch Exeter side in the Mickey Mouse cup make any difference to anything?

Earl has done well at 8. However, Scotland are a far bigger challenge so it will be a good acid test to see where we’re up to.

As per Puja’s review, I think there are aspects of promise and it doesn’t feel like we’re too far off putting in a more complete performance. If we can do that against Scotland at Murrayfield it could be a seminal moment for Borthwick’s reign.

[Banquo]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.
- The attack still has moments of incohesion, but we are creating chances and actually trying things. I'm willing to give it a bit more time.
- The defensive system is coming together and looks to be an absolute weapon. Still got plenty of errors in it, but if we can get that right, it's going to be a menace.
- Stuart, Dingwall, Care, and Daly all had much better games than reported, although I would still replace the latter on the basis that IFW is the young thruster available to take over.
- CCS is going to be some player. I don't know if I'd start him yet, but he's a weapon to bring off the bench and is certainly looking to the manner born. Good selection call by Straw Berryman.

Puja

Puja, do you see our overall game plan as too regimented? Mercer's performance yesterday left so many questions and it's tempting to wonder if he simply does not fit a play-it-by-numbers regime.

My other question - only a minor issue - is the lack of anything original from first phase. It somehow seems a contradiction in terms to discourage flair on the one hand but not have some slick and different routine from the training ground.

That leads to the last question. Will we see substantial improvement following a two week stint in training? I think fans are entitled to expect that.

Why does Mercer’s performance against a hotch potch Exeter side in the Mickey Mouse cup make any difference to anything?

Earl has done well at 8. However, Scotland are a far bigger challenge so it will be a good acid test to see where we’re up to.

As per Puja’s review, I think there are aspects of promise and it doesn’t feel like we’re too far off putting in a more complete performance. If we can do that against Scotland at Murrayfield it could be a seminal moment for Borthwick’s reign.

Whilst I agree on yesterday's performance, I do think Mercer should be around the squad, and Earl plus Mercer plus proper job 6 would be very interesting and suit the looser game I think we COULD play with the personnel we have; a tight game isn't going to suit at present.

But it seems he didn't fit either Everlasting Joke or Sloppy Blowjob's plans.

[Puja]

I don't get the fascination with moving Earl to 7. He's not looked convincing to me there for Sarries or England, certainly not that I've watched him play and thought, "Wow, that's who I want as my specialist 7". Whereas at 8, he's doing a superb job and looks like a genuine international.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.
- The attack still has moments of incohesion, but we are creating chances and actually trying things. I'm willing to give it a bit more time.
- The defensive system is coming together and looks to be an absolute weapon. Still got plenty of errors in it, but if we can get that right, it's going to be a menace.
- Stuart, Dingwall, Care, and Daly all had much better games than reported, although I would still replace the latter on the basis that IFW is the young thruster available to take over.
- CCS is going to be some player. I don't know if I'd start him yet, but he's a weapon to bring off the bench and is certainly looking to the manner born. Good selection call by Straw Berryman.

Puja

Puja, do you see our overall game plan as too regimented? Mercer's performance yesterday left so many questions and it's tempting to wonder if he simply does not fit a play-it-by-numbers regime.

My other question - only a minor issue - is the lack of anything original from first phase. It somehow seems a contradiction in terms to discourage flair on the one hand but not have some slick and different routine from the training ground.

That leads to the last question. Will we see substantial improvement following a two week stint in training? I think fans are entitled to expect that.

Why does Mercer’s performance against a hotch potch Exeter side in the Mickey Mouse cup make any difference to anything?

Earl has done well at 8. However, Scotland are a far bigger challenge so it will be a good acid test to see where we’re up to.

As per Puja’s review, I think there are aspects of promise and it doesn’t feel like we’re too far off putting in a more complete performance. If we can do that against Scotland at Murrayfield it could be a seminal moment for Borthwick’s reign.

I’m guessing it’s less the quality of his overall performance but rather the temerity to run with ball in his own half. Sacre Bleu would not like that.

[Oakboy]

I don't get the fascination with moving Earl to 7. He's not looked convincing to me there for Sarries or England, certainly not that I've watched him play and thought, "Wow, that's who I want as my specialist 7". Whereas at 8, he's doing a superb job and looks like a genuine international.

Puja

Will he play there regularly for his club? I think the extra bulk might lead to him being more vulnerable to injury. At 8, he's OK. Now that he's comfortable in an international shirt, why can't he up his game at 7?

[p/d]

If Earl is a mediocre 7 then drop him for Evans or The Dr and bring in Mercer.

Simples

[Oakboy]

Puja, do you see our overall game plan as too regimented? Mercer's performance yesterday left so many questions and it's tempting to wonder if he simply does not fit a play-it-by-numbers regime.

My other question - only a minor issue - is the lack of anything original from first phase. It somehow seems a contradiction in terms to discourage flair on the one hand but not have some slick and different routine from the training ground.

That leads to the last question. Will we see substantial improvement following a two week stint in training? I think fans are entitled to expect that.

Why does Mercer’s performance against a hotch potch Exeter side in the Mickey Mouse cup make any difference to anything?

Earl has done well at 8. However, Scotland are a far bigger challenge so it will be a good acid test to see where we’re up to.

As per Puja’s review, I think there are aspects of promise and it doesn’t feel like we’re too far off putting in a more complete performance. If we can do that against Scotland at Murrayfield it could be a seminal moment for Borthwick’s reign.

I’m guessing it’s less the quality of his overall performance but rather the temerity to run with ball in his own half. Sacre Bleu would not like that.

Exeter did not have a bad back row out but Mercer looked up a level. I rate Fisilau but Mercer showed acceleration off the base of the scrum that Fisilau and the rest of the contenders can't match currently, I'd suggest.

[Puja]

If Earl is a mediocre 7 then drop him for Evans or The Dr and bring in Mercer.

Simples

Based on a Premeirship Cup game?

Puja

[p/d]

If Earl is a mediocre 7 then drop him for Evans or The Dr and bring in Mercer.

Simples

Based on a Premeirship Cup game?

Puja

I assume he was told to go and work on his kicking game. Prem Cup game or not that was a delicious kick

[Banquo]

I don't get the fascination with moving Earl to 7. He's not looked convincing to me there for Sarries or England, certainly not that I've watched him play and thought, "Wow, that's who I want as my specialist 7". Whereas at 8, he's doing a superb job and looks like a genuine international.

Puja

I think its worth thinking about though. Maybe now he's found his feet at intl level...

part of the fascination is likely driven by the fact that the backrow has scope for improvement.

(he's also been very good at 7 for sarries, albeit in a very much a loose linking role)

[Mellsblue]

If Earl is a mediocre 7 then drop him for Evans or The Dr and bring in Mercer.

Simples

Based on a Premeirship Cup game?

Puja

I assume he was told to go and work on his kicking game. Prem Cup game or not that was a delicious kick

And he chased it. He covered both bases: kick and chase. He’ll be captain for the summer tour if he keeps it up.

[Crash Hamster]

If Earl is a mediocre 7 then drop him for Evans or The Dr and bring in Mercer.

Simples

Based on a Premeirship Cup game?

Puja

To be fair, Mercer was quite good in France, didn't make the WC squad due to the presence of under-committed red card magnet Billy Vunipola, meaning that well-known flank forward Ben Earl got the gig in dubious circumstances and grabbed his chance most effectively.

Is being petulant in interviews but also letting your rugby do the talking such a terrible thing? Can only play what's in front of you, but yesterday's game did remind me of school rugby, where the talented kid boshes through the whole opposing side without breaking sweat.

My conclusion is that, whether he gets the 8 shirt or not, Mercer really should be in the squad; certainly, other 8s have recently been included off far worse form.

[p/d]

Based on a Premeirship Cup game?

Puja

I assume he was told to go and work on his kicking game. Prem Cup game or not that was a delicious kick

And he chased it. He covered both bases: kick and chase. He’ll be captain for the summer tour if he keeps it up.

you know it Mells. Short arms or not he should be introducing Anne to his soldiers!!

[FKAS]

If Earl is a mediocre 7 then drop him for Evans or The Dr and bring in Mercer.

Simples

Based on a Premeirship Cup game?

Puja

To be fair, Mercer was quite good in France, didn't make the WC squad due to the presence of under-committed red card magnet Billy Vunipola, meaning that well-known flank forward Ben Earl got the gig in dubious circumstances and grabbed his chance most effectively.

Is being petulant in interviews but also letting your rugby do the talking such a terrible thing? Can only play what's in front of you, but yesterday's game did remind me of school rugby, where the talented kid boshes through the whole opposing side without breaking sweat.

My conclusion is that, whether he gets the 8 shirt or not, Mercer really should be in the squad; certainly, other 8s have recently been included off far worse form.

Borthwick told him what we wanted to see and Mercer doesn't appear to have addressed that.

If I was to guess it would probably be his work rate in defence where he's generally pretty quiet.

Borthwick opted to drop Billy V at the world cup for Earl who tends to be towards the top in carries and tackles. It looks like Borthwick wants an all action 8, high work rate on both sides of the ball.

[p/d]

Based on a Premeirship Cup game?

Puja

To be fair, Mercer was quite good in France, didn't make the WC squad due to the presence of under-committed red card magnet Billy Vunipola, meaning that well-known flank forward Ben Earl got the gig in dubious circumstances and grabbed his chance most effectively.

Is being petulant in interviews but also letting your rugby do the talking such a terrible thing? Can only play what's in front of you, but yesterday's game did remind me of school rugby, where the talented kid boshes through the whole opposing side without breaking sweat.

My conclusion is that, whether he gets the 8 shirt or not, Mercer really should be in the squad; certainly, other 8s have recently been included off far worse form.

Borthwick told him what we wanted to see and Mercer doesn't appear to have addressed that.

If I was to guess it would probably be his work rate in defence where he's generally pretty quiet.

.

So you think it was work rate in defence.

[FKAS]

To be fair, Mercer was quite good in France, didn't make the WC squad due to the presence of under-committed red card magnet Billy Vunipola, meaning that well-known flank forward Ben Earl got the gig in dubious circumstances and grabbed his chance most effectively.

Is being petulant in interviews but also letting your rugby do the talking such a terrible thing? Can only play what's in front of you, but yesterday's game did remind me of school rugby, where the talented kid boshes through the whole opposing side without breaking sweat.

My conclusion is that, whether he gets the 8 shirt or not, Mercer really should be in the squad; certainly, other 8s have recently been included off far worse form.

Borthwick told him what we wanted to see and Mercer doesn't appear to have addressed that.

If I was to guess it would probably be his work rate in defence where he's generally pretty quiet.

.

So you think it was work rate in defence.

As a rough guess, number of or number of dominant tackles. I don't have the stats and game analysis that Borthwick will at his finger tips. Could be something left field though like Murley said Borthwick had told him to go looking for work and increase the number of times he had hands on ball during a game as his area to improve which probably isn't what most of us would have guessed.

[p/d]

Or, as Ed Slater comments;
‘In other words, they want to use players that have come through the 20s pathway irrespective of whether those guys are playing or not. Sounds like the pathway from age group rugby trumps form to me. Who comes up with these ridiculous ideas…"

[Banquo]

Sadly Bereft also told Ribbans he needed to be more physical. er...lol

[Stom]

Is there anywhere you can find these kind of stats for Prem games anymore? As Statsguru doesn't seem to work anymore.

My guess on Mercer is that he was told to do something that would "harm" the game that got him recognition as a great 8. And he tried, but then told SB to stuff it, he wasn't going to make himself a "worse" player.

Which is fair, but also means he can't mouth off about not being given a chance when he's not doing what he's been asked to do.

I don't agree with Slarty Bartfarst's system, but when the head coach tells you that he wants X and you do Y...yeah maybe you shouldn't be playing for England.

Dombrandt has obviously worked on his work-ons, but not hard enough. So he gets into the squad but doesn't get into the 23.