2024 Autumn Internationals

[Big D]

A lot to like about that performance and some of the usual frustrations.

The starting forwards went mostly well outside the scrum. Ashman had his best performance for Scotland, old and Gilchrist got throw a power of work. Williamson went well too. Centres looked great at times. Jordan looks at home too.

We need to take more of the chances we make.

I'd also say if we are going 6/2 v SA it's pointless having two backrowers on the bench. Needs a 2nd row/back row option. A fresh back rower is bugger all use in that sort of contest.

[BaldiePete]

Excruciating. Ref was utter dog shit, but it’s hard to complain about that when we blew about 10 chances. Final score line is cruel.

This. We panicked and lost any semblance of shape when we got near the line. Add to that some terrible passes that went to touch and our shocking performance under the high ball (did we win any?) we weren’t going to win, although a 17 point defeat seems like too much.

I was listening to Radio Scotland on the way home and Fraser Brown was commenting that when you get to the red zone, you either score in the first 3 phases or in phases 10 onwards but very rarely in phases 4 to 9. I’m not sure about that, with Scotland I feel that if we get into a high number of phases we’re more likely to fuck it up.

Also, at the game the crowd were very unhappy about the 2nd SA try, thinking the ball had gone forward at the lineout. No way I could tell from where I was sitting, any thoughts on that ?

[Cameo]

Bit confused by the Cummings red. I agree it was a high degree of danger but I didn't really see a rolling motion, the player went backwards not sideways. I think it became dangerous because Darge was also there and that prevented him falling away.

Anyway, glad it was only 20 mins. A full match down to 14 would have felt harsh.

[paddy no 11]

Excruciating. Ref was utter dog shit, but it’s hard to complain about that when we blew about 10 chances. Final score line is cruel.

This. We panicked and lost any semblance of shape when we got near the line. Add to that some terrible passes that went to touch and our shocking performance under the high ball (did we win any?) we weren’t going to win, although a 17 point defeat seems like too much.

I was listening to Radio Scotland on the way home and Fraser Brown was commenting that when you get to the red zone, you either score in the first 3 phases or in phases 10 onwards but very rarely in phases 4 to 9. I’m not sure about that, with Scotland I feel that if we get into a high number of phases we’re more likely to fuck it up.

Also, at the game the crowd were very unhappy about the 2nd SA try, thinking the ball had gone forward at the lineout. No way I could tell from where I was sitting, any thoughts on that ?

I thought the prop try was OK tbh. The penalty against fagerson for the 1st try and red were bad calls I thought. SA could have had a 2nd yellow straight after the 1st also

[paddy no 11]

I think toonie has taken Scotland from a 5/10 team to a consistent 7/10 team, the time to get there is probably a frustration for Scotland fans. A bit of luck and there's definitely a big scalp coming.

[Mikey Brown]

It felt like that in 2017 though.

[Cameo]

Excruciating. Ref was utter dog shit, but it’s hard to complain about that when we blew about 10 chances. Final score line is cruel.

This. We panicked and lost any semblance of shape when we got near the line. Add to that some terrible passes that went to touch and our shocking performance under the high ball (did we win any?) we weren’t going to win, although a 17 point defeat seems like too much.

I was listening to Radio Scotland on the way home and Fraser Brown was commenting that when you get to the red zone, you either score in the first 3 phases or in phases 10 onwards but very rarely in phases 4 to 9. I’m not sure about that, with Scotland I feel that if we get into a high number of phases we’re more likely to fuck it up.

Also, at the game the crowd were very unhappy about the 2nd SA try, thinking the ball had gone forward at the lineout. No way I could tell from where I was sitting, any thoughts on that ?

I thought the prop try was OK tbh. The penalty against fagerson for the 1st try and red were bad calls I thought. SA could have had a 2nd yellow straight after the 1st also

Yeah, SA try was fine (just unlucky). Agree on the others too.

[Cameo]

Fraser Brown making a fair point about our attack near the line. We seemed to split our attack every time which resulted in one out runners or runners with limited options. Against SA that just leads to you going backwards. I think we needed to either stick to pick and goes a bit longer or pull out the big sweeping attacks.

Against Portugal, I would like to see a mix of first choice and back up. Something like:

1. Sutherland
2. Richardson
3. Rae (realistically, Millar Mills)
4. Williamson
5. Craig
6. Brown (if fit)
7. Ritchie (thought he was good coming off the bench today)
8. Muncaster (if Brown isn't fit, then Muncaster at 6 and Bayliss at 8)
9. Dobie
10. Russell
11. Reid
12. McDowall
13. Hutchison
14. Graham
15. Kinghorn

16. Bhatti
17. Harrison (be tempted to start him)
18. Rae
19. Bayliss (between him and Brown can cover second row, or mayhe Johnson)
20. Crosbie
21. Horne
22. Jordan (want him to come on early at 10)
23. Paterson

[BaldiePete]

I don’t think we’ll see Russell against Portugal, so I’d start Hastings with Jordan on the bench (or possibly the other way round). It would be criminal to ignore George Horne during this series. I’d start him with Dobie on the bench. Townsend will probably pick Price to start . If he doesn’t want to risk Graham then play Dobie on the wing and put Price on the bench.

[Mikey Brown]

I'm unsure about the approach for Portugal.

Why did our backs suddenly look like they'd never played together before? Yes there were errors in the forwards but the pack really fronted up. Then it seemed like our (very settled and experienced) backs just completely forgot how to execute basic skills. They were creating the chances and immediately following them up with poor decisions or execution. I'd really want to iron that out before the Australia game.

I was gutted for Jones in particular who has been so good the last year or two, making breaks and flinging the ball in to touch on a couple of occasions. Took a real hospital ball from Tuipulotu as well, who is normally so good at picking the correct passing option.

Kinghorn's flop on to WLR when we'd gone from our 22 to their's and White's horrendous panic pass to nobody really stood out as well.

Not sure Jordan is a 15 but he really has something at this level.

[septic 9]

Williamson, Dempsey and Brown have all left the squad injured

That's a lock, an no8 and a 4/6

Therefore Townsend has called up Mathews and Hepburn. A hooker and a loosehead. The loosehead even before his shall we say less than startling form would be 4th choice for Glasgow currently

[Mikey Brown]

Damn. I wonder if any of them make it back for Australia. I like the look of Williamson.

Who is next in line? Assuming Gray is still going to be unavailable, we’re looking at Craig, Samuel’s/Crosbie and maybe Bradbury as next up in those spots?

I’ve only just realised Cummings could actually be facing a ban, as tends to be routine now whether or not a ref was really deserved.

[Cameo]

I'm unsure about the approach for Portugal.

Why did our backs suddenly look like they'd never played together before? Yes there were errors in the forwards but the pack really fronted up. Then it seemed like our (very settled and experienced) backs just completely forgot how to execute basic skills. They were creating the chances and immediately following them up with poor decisions or execution. I'd really want to iron that out before the Australia game.

I was gutted for Jones in particular who has been so good the last year or two, making breaks and flinging the ball in to touch on a couple of occasions. Took a real hospital ball from Tuipulotu as well, who is normally so good at picking the correct passing option.

Kinghorn's flop on to WLR when we'd gone from our 22 to their's and White's horrendous panic pass to nobody really stood out as well.

Not sure Jordan is a 15 but he really has something at this level.

I didn't see it that way with the backs. Agree in the red zone and that there were a few big mistakes but I thought they generally played well in dealing with the rush defence and finding space. While the pack fronted up, it's not like they provided lots of good fast ball or clean ball from set pieces.

On the team next week, would be happy enough with Jordan starting at 10, my feeling was just that Finn can play three in a row and no need to rest him for the sake of it. Good for him to play with a different 9 and 12. At 9, I see Dobie as our next potential starter so lets get him in.

That's a shame re the injuries, especially to Williamson.

[septic 9]

I’ve only just realised Cummings could actually be facing a ban, as tends to be routine now whether or not a ref was really deserved.

that ref was not something we deserved, nor the TMO

In the SH under the 20min red card, bans automatic and no hearing, unless you appeal. No idea what happens here. Especially when there was no offence

[Cameo]

I think he will get 2 or 3 weeks. He landed on the leg and panel will accept he didn't mean to and there are mitigating circumstances, but won't want to overturn it.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, I’d have thought the SA 9 popping up from underneath him and then rolling over the top of the ruck from an offside position might have altered their view on Cummings’s heinous crime, but what do I know?

Good Matthews is in I guess, but Hepburn seems an odd call regardless of position. I suppose there might be two front rows with niggles.

I guess GT is happy we’ll get by with what we’ve got in the back 5 of the scrum. I think that’s Gilchrist, Craig, Samuel, Ritchie, Muncaster, Darge, Fagerson, Bayliss. Douglas is a flanker?

[BaldiePete]

Douglas is an open side. He hasn’t played a game of senior professional rugby yet but I think he might get a game for the A team against Chile.

[Mikey Brown]

1 week for Cummings. I’ll take it I guess.

[Cameo]

Probably as close to an admission that red was harsh as we will get. Back for Australia.

To me it shows the merit of the 20 min red card.

[septic 9]

Probably as close to an admission that red was harsh as we will get. Back for Australia.

To me it shows the merit of the 20 min red card.

it doesn't. It shows the effect of a really really poor decision by the officials. There was no foul play.

[Cameo]

Probably as close to an admission that red was harsh as we will get. Back for Australia.

To me it shows the merit of the 20 min red card.

it doesn't. It shows the effect of a really really poor decision by the officials. There was no foul play.

What I meant was that really poor decision didn't have as big an impact as it might.

On the other hand, 20 min red cards maybe make it more likely a red will be given (good in avoiding the cop outs we see on some clear headshots, less good if it leads to decisions like the one on Sunday).

[Big D]

Twenty min red cards are rubbish. A poor refereeing decision doesn't vindicate the use of them.

If we were Welsh I would be furious about the game at the weekend. A deserved red card and would have been 60 minutes against 14 men when crying out for a win.

[septic 9]

Probably as close to an admission that red was harsh as we will get. Back for Australia.

To me it shows the merit of the 20 min red card.

it doesn't. It shows the effect of a really really poor decision by the officials. There was no foul play.

What I meant was that really poor decision didn't have as big an impact as it might.

On the other hand, 20 min red cards maybe make it more likely a red will be given (good in avoiding the cop outs we see on some clear headshots, less good if it leads to decisions like the one on Sunday).

I very much doubt that. It is more likely that refs cop out of a decision they would otherwise make regarding a decision. Let someone else take the flak

Always remember where this is coming from. The SH who frankly are still in the last century regarding high hits and player welfare. This is not about better decision, its about quicker decisions on field so that the Aussies in particular can continue their push towards RL and hope to get better audiences

We certainly should not judge the value of 20min red cards on whether it benefited us this time - and the impact on the rest of the team playing a man short lasts all game, not 20mins

The only criteria to judge it by is player welfare. Does this encourage lower tackles more than a full red card. No fucking way

[Mikey Brown]

I'm unsure about the approach for Portugal.

Why did our backs suddenly look like they'd never played together before? Yes there were errors in the forwards but the pack really fronted up. Then it seemed like our (very settled and experienced) backs just completely forgot how to execute basic skills. They were creating the chances and immediately following them up with poor decisions or execution. I'd really want to iron that out before the Australia game.

I was gutted for Jones in particular who has been so good the last year or two, making breaks and flinging the ball in to touch on a couple of occasions. Took a real hospital ball from Tuipulotu as well, who is normally so good at picking the correct passing option.

Kinghorn's flop on to WLR when we'd gone from our 22 to their's and White's horrendous panic pass to nobody really stood out as well.

Not sure Jordan is a 15 but he really has something at this level.

I didn't see it that way with the backs. Agree in the red zone and that there were a few big mistakes but I thought they generally played well in dealing with the rush defence and finding space. While the pack fronted up, it's not like they provided lots of good fast ball or clean ball from set pieces.

Fair enough. I should stress they did really well to make those chances, but it was gutting for the execution to fail so many times. Most were hot and cold.

The pack weren't dominant, I guess I'm past expecting anybody to dominate South Africa up front, but they did provide enough of a platform for those 7 or 8 scoring opportunities.

This one reminds me a bit of the loss to New Zealand in 2017. Hard to picture many better opportunities to beat these guys, though I'm massively encouraged to see a (somewhat depleted) forward pack really take them on in the tackle area and breakdown. Lineout was surprisingly good.

I don't know if SA's scrum is truly that incredible or they've created such an aura around it referees can't resist, but even parity feels like a win against these guys.

[septic 9]

I'm unsure about the approach for Portugal.

Why did our backs suddenly look like they'd never played together before? Yes there were errors in the forwards but the pack really fronted up. Then it seemed like our (very settled and experienced) backs just completely forgot how to execute basic skills. They were creating the chances and immediately following them up with poor decisions or execution. I'd really want to iron that out before the Australia game.

I was gutted for Jones in particular who has been so good the last year or two, making breaks and flinging the ball in to touch on a couple of occasions. Took a real hospital ball from Tuipulotu as well, who is normally so good at picking the correct passing option.

Kinghorn's flop on to WLR when we'd gone from our 22 to their's and White's horrendous panic pass to nobody really stood out as well.

Not sure Jordan is a 15 but he really has something at this level.

I didn't see it that way with the backs. Agree in the red zone and that there were a few big mistakes but I thought they generally played well in dealing with the rush defence and finding space. While the pack fronted up, it's not like they provided lots of good fast ball or clean ball from set pieces.

Fair enough. I should stress they did really well to make those chances, but it was gutting for the execution to fail so many times. Most were hot and cold.

The pack weren't dominant, I guess I'm past expecting anybody to dominate South Africa up front, but they did provide enough of a platform for those 7 or 8 scoring opportunities.

This one reminds me a bit of the loss to New Zealand in 2017. Hard to picture many better opportunities to beat these guys, though I'm massively encouraged to see a (somewhat depleted) forward pack really take them on in the tackle area and breakdown. Lineout was surprisingly good.

I don't know if SA's scrum is truly that incredible or they've created such an aura around it referees can't resist, but even parity feels like a win against these guys.

it is very good, especially with the 2 giant heavyweights (Estebeth and Snyman) at lock. But as ever refs do go with reputation and as ever the Bok scrum tends to run it round if they get the slightest nudge. Sadly refs buy it.
For us Millar-Mills simply not up to the job in the scrum last week, and if that did not cost us the match it certainly gave them the flattering final score