England vs New Zealand - Saturday

[Mellsblue]

Only two vice-captains. Amateurs.

Puja

Agreed. Clueless. We’ve already won the mental battle.

[FKAS]

Aumua, Finau, Roigard, McKenzie off the bench is a lot of dynamism to deal with.

It also made me laugh to see comments happy (from an NZ perspective) that Gardner is ref. Is he known for any particular style or something that would favour NZ specifically?

He is very much a laissez-faire referee - will generally always go with the forward moving team at scrums (regardless of how they got there) and lets a lot go at the breakdown, both things which I think the Kiwis will fancy give them an advantage.

Puja

Yeah the scrum is definitely a concern. We saw in the summer that the ABs were happy to just throw the big boys in there and try to make it a physical battle rather than a technical one. De Groot in particular getting away with some shenanigans. Genge and Stuart isn't a prop selection that's likely to give us a scrum masterclass.

[FKAS]

Only two vice-captains. Amateurs.

Puja

Agreed. Clueless. We’ve already won the mental battle.

That's surely going to play on the ABs minds as the match goes on. Especially with England having a VC they can bring off the bench, talk about bench impact.

[Puja]

Aumua, Finau, Roigard, McKenzie off the bench is a lot of dynamism to deal with.

It also made me laugh to see comments happy (from an NZ perspective) that Gardner is ref. Is he known for any particular style or something that would favour NZ specifically?

He is very much a laissez-faire referee - will generally always go with the forward moving team at scrums (regardless of how they got there) and lets a lot go at the breakdown, both things which I think the Kiwis will fancy give them an advantage.

Puja

Yeah the scrum is definitely a concern. We saw in the summer that the ABs were happy to just throw the big boys in there and try to make it a physical battle rather than a technical one. De Groot in particular getting away with some shenanigans. Genge and Stuart isn't a prop selection that's likely to give us a scrum masterclass.

De Groot being dropped is a massive surprise. Everything else is pretty much as expected, but you'd've thought they'd want to hammer the idea into Gardener's mind early on that they have superiority at the scrum.

Mind, I do think Stuart is underrated. He's a good prop for this type of game, because he knows how to be circumspect and defend, rather than trying to outman his opposite number. Somewhat undercut by having Genge on the other side who is the polar opposite, but there we are.

Puja

[FKAS]

He is very much a laissez-faire referee - will generally always go with the forward moving team at scrums (regardless of how they got there) and lets a lot go at the breakdown, both things which I think the Kiwis will fancy give them an advantage.

Puja

Yeah the scrum is definitely a concern. We saw in the summer that the ABs were happy to just throw the big boys in there and try to make it a physical battle rather than a technical one. De Groot in particular getting away with some shenanigans. Genge and Stuart isn't a prop selection that's likely to give us a scrum masterclass.

De Groot being dropped is a massive surprise. Everything else is pretty much as expected, but you'd've thought they'd want to hammer the idea into Gardener's mind early on that they have superiority at the scrum.

Mind, I do think Stuart is underrated. He's a good prop for this type of game, because he knows how to be circumspect and defend, rather than trying to outman his opposite number. Somewhat undercut by having Genge on the other side who is the polar opposite, but there we are.

Puja

I think Stuart is a solid scrummager at international level, never going to set the world alight but can do a job against most opposition. His carrying in the tight is a pretty handy thing to have. Perhaps they are hoping he's just provide a solid foundation so that Genge can go after their tighthead as you say I've never noticed Genge be one to just sit there and provide a solid platform. He always brings a lot of aggression.

[Epaminondas Pules]

The props from NZ are in our favour somewhat. By that I mean they could be worse from our standpoint, with no De Groot or Newell.

Regardless how they’re performing it is still a very dangerous All Black side. Though whoever I see Ioane in the centre I do chuckle. He must be the worst handling centre they’ve ever played.

[J Dory]

Happy with the selections for the ABs, here's the teams for those that haven't seen:

England: 1. Ellis Genge 2. Jamie George (c) 3. Will Stuart 4. Maro Itoje 5. George Martin 6. Chandler Cunningham-South 7. Tom Curry 8. Ben Earl 9. Ben Spencer 10. Marcus Smith 11. Tommy Freeman 12. Ollie Lawrence 13. Henry Slade 14. Immanuel Feyi-Waboso 15. George Furbank

Bench: 16. Theo Dan 17. Fin Baxter 18. Dan Cole 19. Nick Isiekwe 20. Ben Curry 21. Alex Dombrandt 22. Harry Randall 23. George Ford

All Blacks: 1. Tamaiti Williams, 2. Codie Taylor, 3. Tyrel Lomax, 4. Scott Barrett (Captain), 5. Tupou Vaa’i, 6. Wallace Sititi, 7. Sam Cane, 8. Ardie Savea (Vice-Captain), 9. Cortez Ratima, 10. Beauden Barrett, 11. Caleb Clarke, 12. Jordie Barrett (Vice-Captain), 13. Rieko Ioane, 14. Mark Tele’a, 15. Will Jordan.

Bench: 16. Asafo Aumua, 17. Ofa Tu’ungafasi, 18. Pasilio Tosi, 19. Patrick Tuipulotu, 20. Samipeni Finau, 21. Cam Roigard, 22. Anton Lienert-Brown, 23. Damian McKenzie.

[Puja]

Happy with the selections for the ABs, here's the teams for those that haven't seen

What's the opinion on Sam Cane still hanging around despite impending retirement?

Puja

[J Dory]

Happy with the selections for the ABs, here's the teams for those that haven't seen

What's the opinion on Sam Cane still hanging around despite impending retirement?

Puja

There's a bunch of injuries in the loose forwards. Even without, he still probably deserves his place. Plenty of time to build to before the next WC.

[jngf]

Happy with the selections for the ABs, here's the teams for those that haven't seen

What's the opinion on Sam Cane still hanging around despite impending retirement?

Puja

Tbh Cane and Tom Curry are pretty similar opensides high workrate but arguably a bit on the stodgy these days in that role.

[Oakboy]

Anybody heard anything about TNT's plans re refereeing analysis? Wayne Barnes's article in the DT increased by interest in that side of things. It was thought-provoking to hear that unanimity is never achieved in incident scenario workshops, for example.

[Stom]

What happened to Taylor? My commentary is very quiet

[Mellsblue]

Wtf did Genge show Telea the outside?!?!

[Mellsblue]

What happened to Taylor? My commentary is very quiet

HIA

[Stom]

That was awful from Furbank

[francoisfou]

Sadly, I'm unable to watch. Anyone know if the highlights will be shown on the England Rugby website?

[Stom]

What happened to Taylor? My commentary is very quiet

HIA

Thanks.

Commentary came back. Wish it hadn’t, bloody kiwis. lol

I generally like this from England.

[Which Tyler]

Commentary came back. Wish it hadn’t, bloody kiwis. lol

Here here, was much better when we could hear the ref loudest, and what the players were asking.

I've got that someone's playing an old interpretation (somewhen around the NZ knock on), but Ive no idea what of.

[FKAS]

That was awful from Furbank

If you commit to the double tackle you've got to make sure you get man and ball. Allowing the offload there have committed as the second man in is criminal.

[Danno]

Commentary came back. Wish it hadn’t, bloody kiwis. lol

Here here, was much better when we could hear the ref loudest

I still keep looking for the like button

[Mellsblue]

Itoje has been fantastic.

[Mellsblue]

I take it back.

[Which Tyler]

Blocking, surely?

ETA, okay, I'll take TMO's word for it. Thankfully the commentators had shut up for 5 seconds and we could hear the explanation

[Danno]

Blocking, surely?

Right??

[Mellsblue]

All over the shop in midfield in d.