RugbyRebels

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:46 pm Really? That is as uninspired a backs division I've seen outside Smith for a LOOOONG time. And the bench. Jeez.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:58 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:46 pm Really? That is as uninspired a backs division I've seen outside Smith for a LOOOONG time. And the bench. Jeez.

Slade I'll give you but Lawrence has had a great start to the season. Sleightholme was last season's top try scorer in the Prem. Freeman is as a well rounded winger as England have available and Steward has started the season well. Who else, bar an actual 12 for Slade, should we be parachuting in?

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:59 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:58 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:46 pm Really? That is as uninspired a backs division I've seen outside Smith for a LOOOONG time. And the bench. Jeez.

Slade I'll give you but Lawrence has had a great start to the season. Sleightholme was last season's top try scorer in the Prem. Freeman is as a well rounded winger as England have available and Steward has started the season well. Who else, bar an actual 12 for Slade, should we be parachuting in?

quite. But it can still be uninspiring

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:13 pm Dare i say that the changes to the starting XV are perfectly sound. Think most of us would prefer JvP to the other SH's, Furbank hasnt exactly shone and Underhill offers the kind of dog that we're going to need.
OK the bench aint exactly glittering but at least its a sensible split.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:20 pm Simply Boring going back to his kick dominated safe ground it would seem. Grim.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:53 pm I hope Martin and Underhill are actually properly fit.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:22 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:13 pm Dare i say that the changes to the starting XV are perfectly sound. Think most of us would prefer JvP to the other SH's, Furbank hasnt exactly shone and Underhill offers the kind of dog that we're going to need.
OK the bench aint exactly glittering but at least its a sensible split.

5P, that smacks a bit of damning with faint praise.

Thinking about it, I'd have started Roebuck ahead of Sleightholme who was a defensive liability. I'd have kept Furbank in. Underhill and JVP, I've no issue with at this point. (Except that I'd have called up J Willis for the 7 shirt long ago.)

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:20 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:22 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:13 pm Dare i say that the changes to the starting XV are perfectly sound. Think most of us would prefer JvP to the other SH's, Furbank hasnt exactly shone and Underhill offers the kind of dog that we're going to need.
OK the bench aint exactly glittering but at least its a sensible split.

5P, that smacks a bit of damning with faint praise.

Thinking about it, I'd have started Roebuck ahead of Sleightholme who was a defensive liability. I'd have kept Furbank in. Underhill and JVP, I've no issue with at this point. (Except that I'd have called up J Willis for the 7 shirt long ago.)

Sleightholme has at least proved he can score tries at this level, and the liability looked like the system and communication rather than him. He was left hanging out to dry by the midfield a bit- can't see Roebuck being much of an improvement tbh.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:20 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:22 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:13 pm Dare i say that the changes to the starting XV are perfectly sound. Think most of us would prefer JvP to the other SH's, Furbank hasnt exactly shone and Underhill offers the kind of dog that we're going to need.
OK the bench aint exactly glittering but at least its a sensible split.

5P, that smacks a bit of damning with faint praise.

Thinking about it, I'd have started Roebuck ahead of Sleightholme who was a defensive liability. I'd have kept Furbank in. Underhill and JVP, I've no issue with at this point. (Except that I'd have called up J Willis for the 7 shirt long ago.)

Sleightholme has at least proved he can score tries at this level, and the liability looked like the system and communication rather than him. He was left hanging out to dry by the midfield a bit- can't see Roebuck being much of an improvement tbh.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:40 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:20 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:22 pm

5P, that smacks a bit of damning with faint praise.

Thinking about it, I'd have started Roebuck ahead of Sleightholme who was a defensive liability. I'd have kept Furbank in. Underhill and JVP, I've no issue with at this point. (Except that I'd have called up J Willis for the 7 shirt long ago.)

Sleightholme has at least proved he can score tries at this level, and the liability looked like the system and communication rather than him. He was left hanging out to dry by the midfield a bit- can't see Roebuck being much of an improvement tbh.

You may well be right but, without knowing him at all as a person, am I not right to question Sleightholme's (rugby?) intelligence? How can an interested squad member be unaware of how to play in a defensive system? Even if he has not been first choice in the line-up for practice routines, he must have been involved as an attacker against it etc. Maybe, rushing up was less natural than drifting to him but is that sufficient excuse?

I'll bow to your superior knowledge of this sort of thing but I find it hard to understand how he could be so out of line with it. Basically, all the time he was on, IFW put his body in the right place. Sleightholme did not. Is he a defensive risk for the next one? I've no issues with his attacking game.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:55 pm Honestly I just assume he's injured unless I specifically know otherwise. I'm surprised you feel much differently. Also felt like he'd become a key Borthwick selection again so was surprised he hasn't featured in the 23 at all.

I'm very happy to see him on the team-sheet, particularly if SA are planning to borrow anything from Aus's approach to forward carriers against us.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm Going by that logic, re Sleightholme, and given that last defensive performance, it must be a squad full of dunces.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:45 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm Going by that logic, re Sleightholme, and given that last defensive performance, it must be a squad full of dunces.

Quite. Or coaches so bad that everybody is confused?

Was it so radical for Jones to bring in a new system? Or, can his successor not cope with it?

I don't know the answer to any of it and I've zero experience of coaching rugby. I have coached football, squash and racketball successfully. Presumably, in any sport, a coach gauges reception. Preaching the wrong message must get found out very quickly and, as Goode said, EVERYBODY must buy in 100% for success.

The fact is that defence was a shambles for a good part of the game last Saturday. Hopefully, it will be sorted out this week. Underhill's presence could help.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:55 pm Honestly I just assume he's injured unless I specifically know otherwise. I'm surprised you feel much differently. Also felt like he'd become a key Borthwick selection again so was surprised he hasn't featured in the 23 at all.

I'm very happy to see him on the team-sheet, particularly if SA are planning to borrow anything from Aus's approach to forward carriers against us.

Erasmus has already starting stirring by commenting in his press conference that he's not sure that England are fit enough to play the blitz defence and that "if we can keep the ball, it will tire them out a little bit."

Puja

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:48 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:45 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm Going by that logic, re Sleightholme, and given that last defensive performance, it must be a squad full of dunces.

Quite. Or coaches so bad that everybody is confused?

Was it so radical for Jones to bring in a new system? Or, can his successor not cope with it?

I don't know the answer to any of it and I've zero experience of coaching rugby. I have coached football, squash and racketball successfully. Presumably, in any sport, a coach gauges reception. Preaching the wrong message must get found out very quickly and, as Goode said, EVERYBODY must buy in 100% for success.

The fact is that defence was a shambles for a good part of the game last Saturday. Hopefully, it will be sorted out this week. Underhill's presence could help.

New d coach had four weeks with the players prior to the Oz match…

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:08 pm LCD should have started. The bench is sorrowful. How do Furbank and Spencer go from 1st choice to not in the 23? Dombrandt and Ford ahead of Hill and Fin Smith is based on what? Certainly, not the last two matches.

SA will be quietly confident.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:09 pm Just seen the two sides and comparing them I think just one of our players would make their 23.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:26 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:09 pm Just seen the two sides and comparing them I think just one of our players would make their 23.

....Itoje?

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:28 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:26 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:09 pm Just seen the two sides and comparing them I think just one of our players would make their 23.

....Itoje?

Steward! God knows why we have wasted so many games with Furbank