RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:04 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:04 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:39 am

I was unconvinced until the very end.

The tache is a key strength.

For me he's weak aerially and that might hamper his transition to international rugby. Harsh for a good player but his kick chase isn't going to allow us to contest and he might be targeted with crossfield kicks.

Iirc Tigers targeted him in the big game and successfully contested a lot of box kicks winning the ball back. Other international sides will have seen that and against say Ireland who's back three are all good enough to play fullback could be a tough afternoon for him or cause is to rely heavily on Steward switching to the wing to come and take the box kicks.

I'd draw a distinction between being a good chaser and being good in the air, he's good at timing his chase and applying pressure. I do agree getting up in the air is probably the weakest part of his game that may be a deal-breaker for Borthwick.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:04 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:04 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:39 am

I was unconvinced until the very end.

The tache is a key strength.

For me he's weak aerially and that might hamper his transition to international rugby. Harsh for a good player but his kick chase isn't going to allow us to contest and he might be targeted with crossfield kicks.

Iirc Tigers targeted him in the big game and successfully contested a lot of box kicks winning the ball back. Other international sides will have seen that and against say Ireland who's back three are all good enough to play fullback could be a tough afternoon for him or cause is to rely heavily on Steward switching to the wing to come and take the box kicks.

I'd draw a distinction between being a good chaser and being good in the air, he's good at timing his chase and applying pressure. I do agree getting up in the air is probably the weakest part of his game that may be a deal-breaker for Borthwick.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:58 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:04 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:04 am

The tache is a key strength.

For me he's weak aerially and that might hamper his transition to international rugby. Harsh for a good player but his kick chase isn't going to allow us to contest and he might be targeted with crossfield kicks.

Iirc Tigers targeted him in the big game and successfully contested a lot of box kicks winning the ball back. Other international sides will have seen that and against say Ireland who's back three are all good enough to play fullback could be a tough afternoon for him or cause is to rely heavily on Steward switching to the wing to come and take the box kicks.

I'd draw a distinction between being a good chaser and being good in the air, he's good at timing his chase and applying pressure. I do agree getting up in the air is probably the weakest part of his game that may be a deal-breaker for Borthwick.

Funny, I’d say Murley is better in the air than Sleightholme. He seems to have been working with Isgro on how he chases and it’s paying off. He’s obviously not a particularly guy so timing and accuracy are key offensively. Defensively, he can be outjumped I guess.

If I’m comparing Sleightholme and Murley I’d say the former is marginally better in attack, but the latter is better in the air, quite a bit better defender. Personally, I think Murley is the better player but given Selightholme is in possession of the shirt, he needs to take it off him.

Steve Borthwick has revealed he is giving strong consideration to shifting Marcus Smith to full-back and deploying Freddie Steward on the wing as he plots a course to England’s Six Nations opener against Ireland in Dublin.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:02 pm …or I guess just stick Steward there.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... ix-nations

Steve Borthwick has revealed he is giving strong consideration to shifting Marcus Smith to full-back and deploying Freddie Steward on the wing as he plots a course to England’s Six Nations opener against Ireland in Dublin.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:14 pm Strictly Baldrick has a cunning plan.

Puja wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:26 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:02 pm …or I guess just stick Steward there.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... ix-nations

Steve Borthwick has revealed he is giving strong consideration to shifting Marcus Smith to full-back and deploying Freddie Steward on the wing as he plots a course to England’s Six Nations opener against Ireland in Dublin.

That article feels like rage-bait for this board. Some strong conclusions suggested by the text, but the actual quotes attributed to Speak Bashfully are nowhere near as strident as being implied.

Reading just the bits in speechmarks and it doesn't sound like he's "revealed he is strongly considering picking Steward on the wing and Smith at 15," but instead answering a question about can Steward play on the wing with "it's certainly a possibility" and then talking about how flexibility affects his bench options and how MSmith at 15 is good because of his counterattacking play.

He might still do it, of course, but I think panic/derision is unwarranted at this current time.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:26 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:02 pm …or I guess just stick Steward there.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... ix-nations

Steve Borthwick has revealed he is giving strong consideration to shifting Marcus Smith to full-back and deploying Freddie Steward on the wing as he plots a course to England’s Six Nations opener against Ireland in Dublin.

That article feels like rage-bait for this board. Some strong conclusions suggested by the text, but the actual quotes attributed to Speak Bashfully are nowhere near as strident as being implied.

Reading just the bits in speechmarks and it doesn't sound like he's "revealed he is strongly considering picking Steward on the wing and Smith at 15," but instead answering a question about can Steward play on the wing with "it's certainly a possibility" and then talking about how flexibility affects his bench options and how MSmith at 15 is good because of his counterattacking play.

He might still do it, of course, but I think panic/derision is unwarranted at this current time.

Puja

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:53 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:26 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:02 pm …or I guess just stick Steward there.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... ix-nations

That article feels like rage-bait for this board. Some strong conclusions suggested by the text, but the actual quotes attributed to Speak Bashfully are nowhere near as strident as being implied.

Reading just the bits in speechmarks and it doesn't sound like he's "revealed he is strongly considering picking Steward on the wing and Smith at 15," but instead answering a question about can Steward play on the wing with "it's certainly a possibility" and then talking about how flexibility affects his bench options and how MSmith at 15 is good because of his counterattacking play.

He might still do it, of course, but I think panic/derision is unwarranted at this current time.

Puja

You’re right, but it’s less fun that way. I don’t think it’s actually likely that’s what we’ll see either, but there’s something funny about him even entertaining the idea.

The reality is some games we’d absolutely get away with Steward on the wing. You just don’t know what game you’ll get. Murley might look like our Kolbe or we might just be praying we had someone “solid under the highball” instead.

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 3:48 pm There’s a strong chance that Steward plays wing

p/d wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:46 pm Not sure why you wouldn’t start Roebuck or Murley

p/d wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:46 pm Not sure why you wouldn’t start Roebuck or Murley

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:16 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:46 pm Not sure why you wouldn’t start Roebuck or Murley

Roebuck has looked decent in his brief chances with England and would slot in perfectly with what we want from our wingers. Murley would require some tweaking of the game plan but not a significant amount.

Slightly Boring hasn't been radical but he has brought through new talent. We would all want a couple more but that's the same for most sides. The Irish fans are up in arms about how little they are develo00ping in terms of centres for instance.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 1:18 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:16 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:46 pm Not sure why you wouldn’t start Roebuck or Murley

Roebuck has looked decent in his brief chances with England and would slot in perfectly with what we want from our wingers. Murley would require some tweaking of the game plan but not a significant amount.

Slightly Boring hasn't been radical but he has brought through new talent. We would all want a couple more but that's the same for most sides. The Irish fans are up in arms about how little they are develo00ping in terms of centres for instance.

Very much agreed - if we were talking about our only option being a maverick like Ibitoye, then I could possibly see the concern, but Roebuck is pretty much the perfect Brontebook winger, so I'm not really concerned that he'd ignore him.

I'm always baffled by this perception that Select Berated doesn't pick anyone new or young or exciting, given how many he has brought in. There's a lot of things to castigate him for, but "He won't give a winger a first start against a big side" isn't one of them, given Sleightholme's first start came against South Africa (and was preceded by a week of people being doom and gloom that Boringback'd probably pick Cueto or someone and leave the exciting young thing on the bench!).

Plus

twitchy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 6:59 am I think the issue is that we recognise that being england manager seems to have this corrosive effect on a person's judgement. We are all waiting for the inevitable slide into "picking steward on the wing" which leads to him getting sacked after the 6N (but then learning from his terrible england experience and leading wales to winning the WC).

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 8:40 am

twitchy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 6:59 am I think the issue is that we recognise that being england manager seems to have this corrosive effect on a person's judgement. We are all waiting for the inevitable slide into "picking steward on the wing" which leads to him getting sacked after the 6N (but then learning from his terrible england experience and leading wales to winning the WC).

Does Borthwick stick or twist at this point? Would it be a surprise if he picks: Genge, George, Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Chessum, T Curry, Earl, Mitchell, M Smith, Sleightholme, Slade, Lawrence, Freeman, Steward?

Of course, should he do so, what little respect I still have for him would evaporate. If I was in his shoes, I'd rather be condemned for too many changes than not enough at this stage but that presupposes that 7 defeats in the last 10 games is seen as badly under-performing rather than dishing out a string of excuses.

'We beat Ireland and narrowly lost to France' is fact, of course. But, any sort of claim that we are making progress was shattered by three AI defeats. It's not many months ago that posters here (including me) saw Australia as a relatively easy forthcoming fixture.

I suppose one argument is that we have played some decent stuff for part of every game. Maybe Borthwick has accepted that turning up for the whole 80 is an essential starting point. The captaincy change is a step in the right direction. I just hope that he does more than improve his bench selections.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:02 pm …or I guess just stick Steward there.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... ix-nations

Steve Borthwick has revealed he is giving strong consideration to shifting Marcus Smith to full-back and deploying Freddie Steward on the wing as he plots a course to England’s Six Nations opener against Ireland in Dublin.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:34 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 8:40 am

twitchy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 6:59 am I think the issue is that we recognise that being england manager seems to have this corrosive effect on a person's judgement. We are all waiting for the inevitable slide into "picking steward on the wing" which leads to him getting sacked after the 6N (but then learning from his terrible england experience and leading wales to winning the WC).

Does Borthwick stick or twist at this point? Would it be a surprise if he picks: Genge, George, Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Chessum, T Curry, Earl, Mitchell, M Smith, Sleightholme, Slade, Lawrence, Freeman, Steward?

Of course, should he do so, what little respect I still have for him would evaporate. If I was in his shoes, I'd rather be condemned for too many changes than not enough at this stage but that presupposes that 7 defeats in the last 10 games is seen as badly under-performing rather than dishing out a string of excuses.

'We beat Ireland and narrowly lost to France' is fact, of course. But, any sort of claim that we are making progress was shattered by three AI defeats. It's not many months ago that posters here (including me) saw Australia as a relatively easy forthcoming fixture.

I suppose one argument is that we have played some decent stuff for part of every game. Maybe Borthwick has accepted that turning up for the whole 80 is an essential starting point. The captaincy change is a step in the right direction. I just hope that he does more than improve his bench selections.

I could be way off here, but I think we might get some surprises.

As much as injuries are annoying and disruptive, they also force change and that could well be for the better.

I’d like to see:

1. Genge
2. Cowan-Dickie
3. Stuart
4. Itoje
5. Martin
6. T. Curry
7. Earl
8. Willis
9. Mitchell
10. M. Smith
11. Freeman
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Roebuck
15. Daly

16. Dan 17. Baxter 18. Heyes 19. Chessum 20. Cunningham South 21. Van Poortvliet 22. F. Smith 23. Murley

I doubt Daly will be a popular pick but honestly, I think there is more to be gained by picking him than Steward at this moment in time.