RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 1:39 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 1:24 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 1:17 pm

I’d say Lowe and Freeman are nailed on? Kinghorn looked fine on the wing but much better at fullback. Disappointing day for Keenan but hard to know what state he’s in physically.

Morgan still ahead at 7 I’d say. Conan at 8 almost by default.

50/50s at tighthead and which centre combo.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Chessum get a run out at 6 alongside Itoje and McCarthy on Wednesday, with an eye to that (with Cummings on the bench) for the tests.

Farrell snr very much a Hansen fan tho, but all the wings have been shown up a tad imo. Morgan was poor v Argentina but has momentum now.


But it’s not compelling, esp back row which is a concern

I know he’s a fan, and Freeman hasn’t been flawless but I didn’t think that contest was close right now to be honest.

Virtually everyone has had an off-day already, but I think that’s just par for this kind of jamboree event.

Lots of mixed performances so far, sure, but there will be a significant step up to the tests and I’m still looking forward to them.

Fair enough. Loads of my mates are flying out on the 17th and they are going to have a great time.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 1:24 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 1:17 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 1:13 pm

Think they need to start settling on combos and test starters. VDF mixed tbf given overall breakdown issues and butchering a try. Scots midfield looked good mainly despite the lack of patience inside. It does appear that we will continue to gamble on the tackle line, but decision making and execution needs a big step up, and needs some familiarity.

Not many certs…Genge, Sheehan, Itoje, MCCarthy, JGP, Russell, Tuipulotu?

I’d say Lowe and Freeman are nailed on? Kinghorn looked fine on the wing but much better at fullback. Disappointing day for Keenan but hard to know what state he’s in physically.

Morgan still ahead at 7 I’d say. Conan at 8 almost by default.

50/50s at tighthead and which centre combo.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Chessum get a run out at 6 alongside Itoje and McCarthy on Wednesday, with an eye to that (with Cummings on the bench) for the tests.

Farrell snr very much a Hansen fan tho, but all the wings have been shown up a tad imo. Morgan was poor v Argentina but has momentum now.


But it’s not compelling, esp back row which is a concern

Yes. Hansen is a smart footballer, but lacks an extra metre or two of real pace that makes all the difference at this level. Perhaps a little short of bulk too. A test back three of Kinghorn/Freeman/Lowe may be on the cards, but none of them is a real flier. Pity the livewire Darcy Graham is not on tour - an outstanding wing who deserved to make it.

Faz has plenty of thinking to do for 23_1 ,with the healthy competition for most positions excepting the certs at 2 (Sheehan), 4 (Itoje) 9 (JGP), 10 (Russell), 11 (Lowe),13 (Jones)

You'd think Freeman has shown enough but Faz likes Hansen's all-round game.
Full-back is such a key position these days and Kinghorne's not hsd much of a chance there yet - Daly's injury is a blow and the replacement's wheels don't turn so fast apparently

Galfon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 2:43 pm Faz has plenty of thinking to do for 23_1 ,with the healthy competition for most positions excepting the certs at 2 (Sheehan), 4 (Itoje) 9 (JGP), 10 (Russell), 11 (Lowe),13 (Jones)

You'd think Freeman has shown enough but Faz likes Hansen's all-round game.
Full-back is such a key position these days and Kinghorne's not hsd much of a chance there yet - Daly's injury is a blow and the replacement's wheels don't turn so fast apparently

My feeling is Genge, Morgan, Tuipolotu and Freeman have made the best claims on top of these. Not so sure about Lowe, but he seems to be fighting with DVM and he's ahead there. Curry may be becoming the 6 almost by default. I am hoping someone makes a positive case though.

Agree on Daly, he was sneaking towards starting to everyone's surprise. I think Earls' ability to cover centre could become important and may overrule his periodic stupidity.

I think Curry came in as the obvious first choice at 6 but hasn’t looked particularly sharp. With McCarthy looking good I think Farrell will want to see Chessum at 6. It’s clearly something he’s been considering with Beirne there.

He doesn’t offer the same threat over the ball but bolsters the lineout and carrying power.

I can’t see Farrell leaving out Lowe’s kicking and playmaking, and VDM has looked unsure at key moments so far.

We’ll see once the teams are out but will this week’s Wednesday game against the Brumbies be a runout for the test team? That goes against the usual wisdom but they would then get 10 days rest before the first test with the rest of the squad taking on a scratch Aus/NZ invitational team next Saturday. There’s no midweek match before the first test so there’s no worries about a short turn round for those players.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 4:37 pm I think Curry came in as the obvious first choice at 6 but hasn’t looked particularly sharp. With McCarthy looking good I think Farrell will want to see Chessum at 6. It’s clearly something he’s been considering with Beirne there.

He doesn’t offer the same threat over the ball but bolsters the lineout and carrying power.

I can’t see Farrell leaving out Lowe’s kicking and playmaking, and VDM has looked unsure at key moments so far.

Not convinced Chessum is agile enough to play 6- his lineout and mobility are fine, I just worry about his defence a couple out, plus not sure when he last defended there off a scrum.

BaldiePete wrote: ↑Sat Jul 05, 2025 5:04 pm We’ll see once the teams are out but will this week’s Wednesday game against the Brumbies be a runout for the test team? ..

I agree with this, Brumbies should be the toughest test of the Ladder teams, and the 'Invit XV' opponents could bring a few risks
so close to T1 ( bit of a free-hit maybe..)
With Itoje, Curry, Conan, Chessum, JGP, Russell, Lowe rested and Pollock leg-pull withdrawl, there's certainly a vibe in that direction.

Very interesting next couple of selections. Basically, I think the backline will come good (though maybe lacking a bit of pace on the wings), but the pack is less convincing.

Maybe we're all barking up the wrong tree, but from when the squad was picked it looked light on good options at 6 and it still does. Think it's an all round thing though. Too many dropped balls and too slow to clear out.

I'm in the dark about the team. I have 11 or 12 I'd be fairly confident in, then I read lists of probables from others and they are very different. The way Farrell has mixed and matched his teams makes has kept it very interesting (plus a lot of positions with various options of similar ability.

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 5:43 am Very interesting next couple of selections. Basically, I think the backline will come good (though maybe lacking a bit of pace on the wings), but the pack is less convincing.

Maybe we're all barking up the wrong tree, but from when the squad was picked it looked light on good options at 6 and it still does. Think it's an all round thing though. Too many dropped balls and too slow to clear out.

I'm in the dark about the team. I have 11 or 12 I'd be fairly confident in, then I read lists of probables from others and they are very different. The way Farrell has mixed and matched his teams makes has kept it very interesting (plus a lot of positions with various options of similar ability.

Having thought further since posting this (I know, I need to get out more), I wonder if I am just being overly optimistic (from a Scotland point of view). Was yesterday just a second string team other than Keenan (who came off early so he can play with the top team on Wednesday). If so, I think they are making a big mistake in the centres, but there would be plenty that agree.

Aki in the centres would maybe also make more sense (or slightly less nonsense) of the Farrell call up. Apparently Aki has not played the full 80 in his last international appearances. You would probably need reasonably specialist 12 cover if he is starting. Carrying a straight 12 on the bench is a waste and none of the other 10s are real 12 options (and Jordan a rash option as bench 10). Mistakes compounding on mistakes in my view (apart from anything else, why would you do it so late), but a theory.

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 5:43 am Very interesting next couple of selections. Basically, I think the backline will come good (though maybe lacking a bit of pace on the wings), but the pack is less convincing.

Maybe we're all barking up the wrong tree, but from when the squad was picked it looked light on good options at 6 and it still does. Think it's an all round thing though. Too many dropped balls and too slow to clear out.

I'm in the dark about the team. I have 11 or 12 I'd be fairly confident in, then I read lists of probables from others and they are very different. The way Farrell has mixed and matched his teams makes has kept it very interesting (plus a lot of positions with various options of similar ability.

Maybe, Morgan is the answer at 6, leaving Farrell to pick his two Irish favourites at 7 and 8?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 8:37 am

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 5:43 am Very interesting next couple of selections. Basically, I think the backline will come good (though maybe lacking a bit of pace on the wings), but the pack is less convincing.

Maybe we're all barking up the wrong tree, but from when the squad was picked it looked light on good options at 6 and it still does. Think it's an all round thing though. Too many dropped balls and too slow to clear out.

I'm in the dark about the team. I have 11 or 12 I'd be fairly confident in, then I read lists of probables from others and they are very different. The way Farrell has mixed and matched his teams makes has kept it very interesting (plus a lot of positions with various options of similar ability.

Maybe, Morgan is the answer at 6, leaving Farrell to pick his two Irish favourites at 7 and 8?

I quite like twin 7s. I just don't like a squad that doesn't give more orthodox options.

Watching England, Willis would have been very handy in this squad.

Oh don’t get him started.

Can we stop talking about Farrell making the test squad! Making me cross

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:46 am Can we stop talking about Farrell making the test squad! Making me cross

Nailed on at Fullback

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:49 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:46 am Can we stop talking about Farrell making the test squad! Making me cross

Nailed on at Fullback

mind Puja wants him at 7. I think jngf does too.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:46 am Can we stop talking about Farrell making the test squad! Making me cross

Maybe, you should message Fin. He seemed to be doing his best to make the case for Daddy's boy!

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:52 am

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:49 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:46 am Can we stop talking about Farrell making the test squad! Making me cross

Nailed on at Fullback

mind Puja wants him at 7. I think jngf does too.

He's a certain starter at 10 if Russell gets injured.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:06 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:46 am Can we stop talking about Farrell making the test squad! Making me cross

Maybe, you should message Fin. He seemed to be doing his best to make the case for Daddy's boy!

Unlike the Marcus fans (who came on and did the same as Fin distribution wise), I didn't think he was that bad, though a couple of kicks were meh. I liked him attacking the tackle line, but as repeated a million times, we were trying to go wide/do moves on the tackle without earning the right- front foot blitz defence etc; its obviously the game plan (which Faz would be awful at) but the half backs collectively needed to change emphasis a bit. Mitchell made some lovely breaks, but MOTM was pushing it

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:57 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:06 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:46 am Can we stop talking about Farrell making the test squad! Making me cross

Maybe, you should message Fin. He seemed to be doing his best to make the case for Daddy's boy!

Unlike the Marcus fans (who came on and did the same as Fin distribution wise), I didn't think he was that bad, though a couple of kicks were meh. I liked him attacking the tackle line, but as repeated a million times, we were trying to go wide/do moves on the tackle without earning the right- front foot blitz defence etc; its obviously the game plan (which Faz would be awful at) but the half backs collectively needed to change emphasis a bit. Mitchell made some lovely breaks, but MOTM was pushing it

That's encouraging. You are usually right. I did not see it that way so I definitely want to be wrong. I will be so pissed off if Owen ousts Fin, even from a bench spot but I can see it happening.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 11:18 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:57 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:06 am

Maybe, you should message Fin. He seemed to be doing his best to make the case for Daddy's boy!

Unlike the Marcus fans (who came on and did the same as Fin distribution wise), I didn't think he was that bad, though a couple of kicks were meh. I liked him attacking the tackle line, but as repeated a million times, we were trying to go wide/do moves on the tackle without earning the right- front foot blitz defence etc; its obviously the game plan (which Faz would be awful at) but the half backs collectively needed to change emphasis a bit. Mitchell made some lovely breaks, but MOTM was pushing it

That's encouraging. You are usually right. I did not see it that way so I definitely want to be wrong. I will be so pissed off if Owen ousts Fin, even from a bench spot but I can see it happening.

What did you see? I thought we went pretty well going forward for the first 20, then the 'tahs figured it out in defence, and we didn't adapt....for the rest of the match ball in hand tbh. Barclay, Warburton and ROG all said the same thing- need to get some go forward upfront before moving it laterally.

A few posts old now, but I'd never pick Hansen over Freeman. Tommy is bigger, stronger, faster, has more of a nose for the line, better in the air and throws his weight into a tackle

And he doesn't wear a scrumcap because he's not a forward.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 11:22 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 11:18 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:57 am

Unlike the Marcus fans (who came on and did the same as Fin distribution wise), I didn't think he was that bad, though a couple of kicks were meh. I liked him attacking the tackle line, but as repeated a million times, we were trying to go wide/do moves on the tackle without earning the right- front foot blitz defence etc; its obviously the game plan (which Faz would be awful at) but the half backs collectively needed to change emphasis a bit. Mitchell made some lovely breaks, but MOTM was pushing it

That's encouraging. You are usually right. I did not see it that way so I definitely want to be wrong. I will be so pissed off if Owen ousts Fin, even from a bench spot but I can see it happening.

What did you see? I thought we went pretty well going forward for the first 20, then the 'tahs figured it out in defence, and we didn't adapt....for the rest of the match ball in hand tbh. Barclay, Warburton and ROG all said the same thing- need to get some go forward upfront before moving it laterally.

I thought he was a bit slow and indecisive. Fin always seems to me (for Saints and England) to have his team-mates' placement map clear in his head such that his decisions are set early in his head. Yesterday, there was uncharacteristic hesitation, I thought. Of course, some of that might not have been his fault if familiarity with players and systems is not polished. Mitchell was up to usual standard but he was a bit hampered by some of the sluggish ball presentation.

I suppose I wanted Fin to look perfect to shrug off the shadow of OF.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:46 am Can we stop talking about Farrell making the test squad! Making me cross

Now come on - you know full well that Owen is a Test Match Animal. Unfortunately, in his current iteration, it's a hamster.

On reflection, with the error count- discipline and handling, and getting a whacking at the breakdown…….perhaps broader questions than half back need to be answered. As before, the error count is largely through forcing plays too early imo, and getting rinsed at the breakdown compounds that?