RugbyRebels

England: M Smith, Freeman, Lawrence, Dingwall, Feyi-Waboso; F Smith, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Heyes, Coles, Chessum, Pepper, Earl, Cunningham-South

Replacements: George, Baxter, Opoku-Fordjour, Itoje, T Curry, Pollock, Spencer, Arundell

Nice to see the side rotated round a bit. I'd have preferred for Freeman to stay at 13 but hey ho.

Interesting there is no Stuart, Underhill or Ford - does it suggest they are falling down the pecking order or more a case of wanting to give young players experience in those positions?

Thats a lot more rotation than i expected. Inevitably there would be changes in the back 3 and possibly one or two elsewhere but this is quite a radical shake up.

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 2:17 pm Interesting there is no Stuart, Underhill or Ford - does it suggest they are falling down the pecking order or more a case of wanting to give young players experience in those positions?

I think Borthwick is trying to build out his squad depth. Do we need Ford with Marcus at 15 and Fin at 10? Marcus fits the likely game plan better than the injured Steward would have.

It's quite a good flex really being able to rest those three experienced players and still being happy with the 23 named.

Just when Fin comes in to improve the Saints connection, Lawrence is dumped in at 13, pushing Freeman back to the wing. Why? Cohesion does not occur overnight or in training. I could have understood trying Ojomoh and Lawrence.

Well, that's interesting...

And I kinda like the idea of resting Underhill...but to change it up so much with CCS at 8? I guess we want to see what he can bring.

I'm also concerned that we could see Pepper isolated somewhat with Earl and CCS alongside him.

It's an interesting selection - treating the Fiji game as a trial rather than a warm-up for NZ. I will be excited to see Dingwall/Lawrence given more time, of AOF and FSmith being given valuable development minutes, neither of which may've happened in a first XV scenario. I'm also very much in favour of Itoje being given even a slight rest.

I am somewhat concerned, like Oakboy, about cohesion not happening overnight, but I guess by the ABs game, they will've had three weeks in camp to have been inculcated in the Blackett way and the coaches will've seen a larger variety of options and combos in match environments, which is also important.

Puja

Phew! A 13 playing 13.

FSmith at 10. Happy days

MSmith 15. Just because other countries can ..

CCS at 8. Good stuff.

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 2:44 pm Well, that's interesting...

And I kinda like the idea of resting Underhill...but to change it up so much with CCS at 8? I guess we want to see what he can bring.

I'm also concerned that we could see Pepper isolated somewhat with Earl and CCS alongside him.

I suppose that Pepper and CCS at 6 and 8 is a useful trial with NZ in mind. Was the back row v Aus, SB's likely starting trio for NZ? If fully fit, Curry is simply our best eligible backrower. Two bench appearances should nurse him through to a start against NZ. Who with, though? Does he replace Pepper at 6?

Pepper looked so good against Aus, especially with his lineout prowess, that I'd imagine he is hard to drop. Earl at 8 was overtaken in the shirt by Pollock based on that game, IMO, but does he get the 7 shirt?

Now, CCS has the chance to show he should start at 8.

Fascinating.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:48 pm Phew! A 13 playing 13.

Certainly, a club 13. An international one, though?

Don’t understand why you would have Itoje on the bench. Just give him the time off and have Isiekwe there.

Like that! For too long we’ve cried about lack of depth and the only way to build that is to change and build in game time. Smith and the Duke will have a different dynamic to Ford; Lawrence offers a different threat at 13 to Freeman, but sure Freeman will have license to roam. I’m not a big fan of Smith at 15, but it’s a serious attacking threat. Good pack and a strong bench to bring on. Arundell could come on for a winger or for Lawrence and shift Freeman in one. There’s a lot to like!

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:56 pm Don’t understand why you would have Itoje on the bench. Just give him the time off and have Isiekwe there.

Agreed - seems pointless. I am wondering if the plan is to give all of the players that toured in the summer 3 starts maximum, so the likes of Heyes, Chessum, Pepper, Earl, Mitchell, and Freeman will get benched against Argentina.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:53 pmI suppose that Pepper and CCS at 6 and 8 is a useful trial with NZ in mind. Was the back row v Aus, SB's likely starting trio for NZ? If fully fit, Curry is simply our best eligible backrower. Two bench appearances should nurse him through to a start against NZ. Who with, though? Does he replace Pepper at 6?

Pepper looked so good against Aus, especially with his lineout prowess, that I'd imagine he is hard to drop. Earl at 8 was overtaken in the shirt by Pollock based on that game, IMO, but does he get the 7 shirt?

Now, CCS has the chance to show he should start at 8.

Fascinating.

Hard disagree on Pollock having overtaken Earl based on Australia performances, to the extent that I'm wondering if we watched the same game. Thought Earl was terrific and made ground through hard carries into traffic as well as the fancy-danning. Pollock is a special talent, but also incredibly raw and inexperienced - he hasn't half the nous of Earl as things stand.

I'd say the backrow for NZ, as things stand, should be Pepper/TCurry/Earl with Pollock on the bench (and one of CCS/Underhill if we're going 6:2) - would agree that TCurry is too good to leave out when he's fit and, while Underhill is an absolute weapon in defence (as well as grotesquely underrated for his carrying and jackalling), Pepper has overtaken him with the Aus performance. I can't see CCS doing anything that'll outweigh that game, considering he's playing against a lower level opposition.

Puja

Yeah not sure how Pollock outshone Earl at all. Both played well, pollock with highlight impacts whilst Earl was effective across the board, and also highlight finish. Great to have both options.

Borthers has clicked... he's got it. England are building - I like what he's doing here, he's building a seriously strong squad, giving the right people opportunities. Some good moves in this selection.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:07 pm Borthers has clicked... he's got it. England are building - I like what he's doing here, he's building a seriously strong squad, giving the right people opportunities. Some good moves in this selection.

I’m not a fan of Spreadsheet Bastard’s statistical approach, but I cannot fault this apparent depth build. I’m genuinely enthused by us building experience beyond 15/23 players.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:07 pm Borthers has clicked... he's got it. England are building - I like what he's doing here, he's building a seriously strong squad, giving the right people opportunities. Some good moves in this selection.

I’m not a fan of Spreadsheet Bastard’s statistical approach, but I cannot fault this apparent depth build. I’m genuinely enthused by us building experience beyond 15/23 players.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:41 pm Yeah not sure how Pollock outshone Earl at all. Both played well, pollock with highlight impacts whilst Earl was effective across the board, and also highlight finish. Great to have both options.

Me neither. Oakboy’s obsession is getting a little OTT.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:17 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:07 pm Borthers has clicked... he's got it. England are building - I like what he's doing here, he's building a seriously strong squad, giving the right people opportunities. Some good moves in this selection.

I’m not a fan of Spreadsheet Bastard’s statistical approach, but I cannot fault this apparent depth build. I’m genuinely enthused by us building experience beyond 15/23 players.

Conflicted on this. I tend to agree but then Sir Clive has said this selection has cost us the World Cup and we must pick our best team for every single game because that worked for him 20+ years ago

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:33 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:41 pm Yeah not sure how Pollock outshone Earl at all. Both played well, pollock with highlight impacts whilst Earl was effective across the board, and also highlight finish. Great to have both options.

Me neither. Oakboy’s obsession is getting a little OTT.

Don't worry. I expect he'll be off to France soon to join my other two favourites.

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:40 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:17 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:07 pm Borthers has clicked... he's got it. England are building - I like what he's doing here, he's building a seriously strong squad, giving the right people opportunities. Some good moves in this selection.

I’m not a fan of Spreadsheet Bastard’s statistical approach, but I cannot fault this apparent depth build. I’m genuinely enthused by us building experience beyond 15/23 players.

Conflicted on this. I tend to agree but then Sir Clive has said this selection has cost us the World Cup and we must pick our best team for every single game because that worked for him 20+ years ago

True, but then Sir Clive has proven himself to be a bit of an idiot over the last 10+ years

Itoje on the bench Did he kick Skank Birder's dog?

Danno wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:24 pm Itoje on the bench Did he kick Skank Birder's dog?

This was an absolute must at some point, it's been bothering me - what happens if Itoje is injured through the world cup? Got to give another lock or two some game time, now makes sense.

Off topic, any advice would be really appreciated - annoyingly I'm driving to the game on Saturday (don't ask) - does anyone have any clever parking tricks/places/tips? I have only ever driven once before in the 2015 WC and parked in a college car park but I think that was a WC thing. Would rather not park on someone's drive but maybe should. Any parking hacks? Thanks in advance if anyone offers any.