England vs New Zealand

[TheDasher]

Marcus at 9 would have the acceleration to be a real running threat... He's also more tenacious by character and would be a real nuisance. Ford could just be Wigglesworth 2.0, no bad thing but not as exciting.

[TheDasher]

Maybe it’s just the nature of arguing on the internet but the Arundell at fullback thing seems a strange thing to be bothered by at this point.

Yes he is very fast, yes he is a good broken field runner (not that I think we’ve really seen this in… years?) but the other arguments for him only go as far as he might be okay at catching a high ball or tackling or kicking.

It doesn’t feel much different to suggesting we put IFW there to me. Even Roebuck at fullback seems a huge amount more logical to me. It certainly feels like it’s currently much easier to make use of his talents out on the wing than anywhere else.

He’s got plenty of time and will probably get some chances there at some point (assuming it’s even his favoured position) for Bath or in a lesser game for England.

I think 'bothered' is a bit strong... I wouldn't say I've lost any sleep over it, in fact far from it, I think we've covered it/done it!

But, when you say "the only arguments are" - you're missing a key one, he played schoolboy, England age group and professional club rugby at 15 and arguably when taken in the round, he's been more effective there. His play as a 15 got him a pro contract, got him into the England age group set up and got him on the map. That was my point... if the EJ had picked him at 15 instead of wing he might be playing at FB now, that was all I was saying. Instead, he's not in the match day squad and we are starting a FB that many don't rate.

That's it really. I know the counter-arguments.

[Oakboy]

Did we really have the nerve to pick Balshaw at FB?

[Beasties]

Marcus at 9 would have the acceleration to be a real running threat... He's also more tenacious by character and would be a real nuisance. Ford could just be Wigglesworth 2.0, no bad thing but not as exciting.

[Lizard]

Ford has apparently been training at 9 a little bit so Marcus might be as well. Would open potential 7:1 bench splits in future.

Welcome to... what? 2018?
It just means that they can step in when the SH is at the bottom of a ruck, receiving treatment, or has been shown a yellow card. SH is probably the most instinctive position on the pitch, and needs to be grooved with lots of game time there.

Ford and MSmith would both have made excellent France-style SHs (as I've said for years - see also Ryan Lamb, Kyle Eastmond and a few others) - had they been tried there at U16 level.
The SH/FH combos are essentially all SHs who learned FH play play, or have been playing both from a very young age. I can't think of a single FH who then learnt SH play to the standard of starting a PRC match there during an injury crisis.

I always tended to look down on the idea of Ford playing 9 over the last decade or so when it's been brought up but the only time I've seen him do it (during a Wigglesworth sin bin period Vs Saints at the Gardens) he was phenomenal. Couple of on the money box kicks and then a drop goal from a goal line drop out.

With it being used in the context of a 7:1 bench you are probably only ever looking at it being used in the case of an injury or if the 9 is completely gassed so for the final 10 mins.

Playing 9 and 10 used to be more common. In the ‘90s, Jon Preston played 10 tests for the All Blacks. He played 10 four times (2 starts, 2 bench) and 9 five times (4 starts, 1 bench), and he once was force to replace Jeff Wilson on the wing.

[Cameo]

I think having someone cover 9 as a secondary position only really works if you rate your first 9 so highly that you'll rarely want to take him off (or, more negatively, don't have any decent back up 9s).

Otherwise you risk missing out on a fresh nine coming on and adding energy. They are one of the subs that often make a real difference.

England may be in that position - Mitchell's good, Spencer doesn't add much, but it would be a bold call.

[Lizard]

True. Preston played in the early days of tactical subs.

I’ll be interested to see what you lot think of Roigard and Ratima.

I’m not convinced by Roigard, but that might be because he’s trying to fill the shoes of Nug. Ratima is usually good off the bench.

[Scrumhead]

Marcus at 9 would have the acceleration to be a real running threat... He's also more tenacious by character and would be a real nuisance. Ford could just be Wigglesworth 2.0, no bad thing but not as exciting.

Yes, I think Marcus could have been an excellent 9. However, more in a French style set-up where the 9 is a bit more influential from a playmaking POV and kicks goals as well. 9 isn’t a position you can switch too later though - as many have said, there instincts need to be developed from early on.

[Mr Mwenda]

Playing 9 and 10 used to be more common. In the ‘90s, Jon Preston played 10 tests for the All Blacks. He played 10 four times (2 starts, 2 bench) and 9 five times (4 starts, 1 bench), and he once was force to replace Jeff Wilson on the wing.

I always somehow associate it as a French thing. Didn't Michalek and possibly also Parra and Yachvilli do this for France sometimes. I have a feeling that Dupont moves to ten sometimes as well but maybe that was Toulouse and a one off.

[Stom]

Playing 9 and 10 used to be more common. In the ‘90s, Jon Preston played 10 tests for the All Blacks. He played 10 four times (2 starts, 2 bench) and 9 five times (4 starts, 1 bench), and he once was force to replace Jeff Wilson on the wing.

I always somehow associate it as a French thing. Didn't Michalek and possibly also Parra and Yachvilli do this for France sometimes. I have a feeling that Dupont moves to ten sometimes as well but maybe that was Toulouse and a one off.

Yes on all. Except that Dupont could play anywhere, he's such a freak of nature!

[TheDasher]

Playing 9 and 10 used to be more common. In the ‘90s, Jon Preston played 10 tests for the All Blacks. He played 10 four times (2 starts, 2 bench) and 9 five times (4 starts, 1 bench), and he once was force to replace Jeff Wilson on the wing.

I always somehow associate it as a French thing. Didn't Michalek and possibly also Parra and Yachvilli do this for France sometimes. I have a feeling that Dupont moves to ten sometimes as well but maybe that was Toulouse and a one off.

Yes on all. Except that Dupont could play anywhere, he's such a freak of nature!

Imagine how high Antonio and crew could throw him in the lineout...

[Which Tyler]

Imagine how high Antonio and crew could throw him in the lineout...

Being a short-arse, they'd have to literally throw him, to get his hands higher than Aldritt's

[Puja]

I’ll be interested to see what you lot think of Roigard and Ratima.

I’m not convinced by Roigard, but that might be because he’s trying to fill the shoes of Nug. Ratima is usually good off the bench.

I've been under the impression that they're both very decent and nippy 9s, of the kind that we'd kill for as a backup to Mitchell. What's wrong with them?

Puja

[Lizard]

I’ll be interested to see what you lot think of Roigard and Ratima.

I’m not convinced by Roigard, but that might be because he’s trying to fill the shoes of Nug. Ratima is usually good off the bench.

I've been under the impression that they're both very decent and nippy 9s, of the kind that we'd kill for as a backup to Mitchell. What's wrong with them?

Puja

They’ve both got a serious problem of not being Aaron Smith

Roigard, in the modern way, takes far too long with his kicks. And even then they are often inaccurate.

Ratima I’m ok with, as an impact 9. He can make shit happen. He doesn’t yet have much presence on the field but that’s an experience and confidence thing.

[Puja]

I’ll be interested to see what you lot think of Roigard and Ratima.

I’m not convinced by Roigard, but that might be because he’s trying to fill the shoes of Nug. Ratima is usually good off the bench.

I've been under the impression that they're both very decent and nippy 9s, of the kind that we'd kill for as a backup to Mitchell. What's wrong with them?

Puja

They’ve both got a serious problem of not being Aaron Smith

Roigard, in the modern way, takes far too long with his kicks. And even then they are often inaccurate.

Ratima I’m ok with, as an impact 9. He can make shit happen. He doesn’t yet have much presence on the field but that’s an experience and confidence thing.

Yeah, we've had that problem with our scrum-halves for years!

Puja

[Danno]

I’ll be interested to see what you lot think of Roigard and Ratima.

I’m not convinced by Roigard, but that might be because he’s trying to fill the shoes of Nug. Ratima is usually good off the bench.

I've been under the impression that they're both very decent and nippy 9s, of the kind that we'd kill for as a backup to Mitchell. What's wrong with them?

Puja

They’ve both got a serious problem of not being Aaron Smith

Isn't that every SH ever except Dupont

[Cameo]

I think Roigard has the potential to be a bit special. Not the classic 9 like Smith, but a serious running game with pace and power.

[Lizard]

I've been under the impression that they're both very decent and nippy 9s, of the kind that we'd kill for as a backup to Mitchell. What's wrong with them?

Puja

They’ve both got a serious problem of not being Aaron Smith

Roigard, in the modern way, takes far too long with his kicks. And even then they are often inaccurate.

Ratima I’m ok with, as an impact 9. He can make shit happen. He doesn’t yet have much presence on the field but that’s an experience and confidence thing.

Yeah, we've had that problem with our scrum-halves for years!

Puja

The thing with Aaron Smith was that before him, All Blacks fans were used to having, from time to time, as least arguably the world’s best in most positions. But we’ve probably never had the world’s best scrum half before. I mean maybe Sid Going?

[loudnconfident]

I'd heard of the Kiwis poaching from the Pacific Islanders, but from Holland?

http://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/ ... rticle/NaN

(He seems a determined guy!)

[twitchy]

The dutch would be good at rugby. I always thought Micky Van Der Ven would be top class. 6 foot 4 and the quickest player in the PL.


https://www.premierleague.com/en/news/3884168

The 22-year-old Tottenham Hotspur defender, who hit a top speed of 35.97 km/h playing for Wolfsburg last campaign, went even faster by clocking an astonishing 37.38 km/h against Brentford on 31 January, a record in the Premier League since the data started being collected in 2020/21.

To put his feat into context, Van de Ven's blistering pace against Brentford was clocked at 10.38m per second, or 23.23 miles per hour. When sprint star Usain Bolt set the current 100m world record in 2009, his average speed was 10.44m per second, or 23.35mph (37.58 km/h).

[francoisfou]

Playing 9 and 10 used to be more common. In the ‘90s, Jon Preston played 10 tests for the All Blacks. He played 10 four times (2 starts, 2 bench) and 9 five times (4 starts, 1 bench), and he once was force to replace Jeff Wilson on the wing.

I always somehow associate it as a French thing. Didn't Michalek and possibly also Parra and Yachvilli do this for France sometimes. I have a feeling that Dupont moves to ten sometimes as well but maybe that was Toulouse and a one off.

I seem to remember that Michalak was picked for both positions for France, although predominantly at 10., but I can't remember either Parra or Yachvili doing the same even at club level.
Dupont, however, has indeed played at 10 for his club - not maybe in the starting XV, but certainly moved to 10 during matches. It's said that his coach Ugo Mola would like him to get some playing time at centre too.

[Mr Mwenda]

Something so solid and honest about Underhill's playing style. Love it.

Ford, come on with the kdab...

[Mr Mwenda]

Two hands on the ball, having said that...

[Stom]

Not sure about the ref yet… couple of very iffy decisions.

[Mr Mwenda]

Ford reminding us why he's always been in and out of the team. Come on, Ford, show your class from now on.