RugbyRebels

As Lizard said, the earliest possible date is Autumn 2017, although rumour has it that the tiff between RFU and NZRU over how much an AB test is worth may mean no game till 2018 AIs.

I'm not unhappy with that, tbh. At present, NZ are clearly better than us and I would prefer our young stars learn and develop in still-challenging, yet winnable games against Aus, SA, Arg, etc. Give people like Itoje, Watson, Ford, etc another year and we'll be in a much better position.

Puja

Puja wrote:As Lizard said, the earliest possible date is Autumn 2017, although rumour has it that the tiff between RFU and NZRU over how much an AB test is worth may mean no game till 2018 AIs.

I'm not unhappy with that, tbh. At present, NZ are clearly better than us and I would prefer our young stars learn and develop in still-challenging, yet winnable games against Aus, SA, Arg, etc. Give people like Itoje, Watson, Ford, etc another year and we'll be in a much better position.

Puja

And so will they. They'll be hardened by a test series against the Lions and numerous fights against quality opposition in the 4N. This is a better time to play the ABs than any time in about 7 years.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Puja wrote:As Lizard said, the earliest possible date is Autumn 2017, although rumour has it that the tiff between RFU and NZRU over how much an AB test is worth may mean no game till 2018 AIs.

I'm not unhappy with that, tbh. At present, NZ are clearly better than us and I would prefer our young stars learn and develop in still-challenging, yet winnable games against Aus, SA, Arg, etc. Give people like Itoje, Watson, Ford, etc another year and we'll be in a much better position.

Puja

And so will they. They'll be hardened by a test series against the Lions and numerous fights against quality opposition in the 4N. This is a better time to play the ABs than any time in about 7 years.

I'm still comfortable - we've got a much bigger scope for improvement than they do. In 2 years, there's a possibility we could be confronting them as near equals, which I'd prefer to being plucky and trying to catch them unawares.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Puja wrote:As Lizard said, the earliest possible date is Autumn 2017, although rumour has it that the tiff between RFU and NZRU over how much an AB test is worth may mean no game till 2018 AIs.

I'm not unhappy with that, tbh. At present, NZ are clearly better than us and I would prefer our young stars learn and develop in still-challenging, yet winnable games against Aus, SA, Arg, etc. Give people like Itoje, Watson, Ford, etc another year and we'll be in a much better position.

Puja

And so will they. They'll be hardened by a test series against the Lions and numerous fights against quality opposition in the 4N. This is a better time to play the ABs than any time in about 7 years.

I'm still comfortable - we've got a much bigger scope for improvement than they do. In 2 years, there's a possibility we could be confronting them as near equals, which I'd prefer to being plucky and trying to catch them unawares.

Puja

Or England could go the other way and regress when the new coach honeymoon period is over.

Puja wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Puja wrote:As Lizard said, the earliest possible date is Autumn 2017, although rumour has it that the tiff between RFU and NZRU over how much an AB test is worth may mean no game till 2018 AIs.

I'm not unhappy with that, tbh. At present, NZ are clearly better than us and I would prefer our young stars learn and develop in still-challenging, yet winnable games against Aus, SA, Arg, etc. Give people like Itoje, Watson, Ford, etc another year and we'll be in a much better position.

Puja

And so will they. They'll be hardened by a test series against the Lions and numerous fights against quality opposition in the 4N. This is a better time to play the ABs than any time in about 7 years.

I'm still comfortable - we've got a much bigger scope for improvement than they do. In 2 years, there's a possibility we could be confronting them as near equals, which I'd prefer to being plucky and trying to catch them unawares.

Puja

I think they've got at least as much scope for improvement as you do. There are plenty of greenhorns around their squad. Take Ardie Savea for example. If he becomes the player I think he could be then we'll be seeing something utterly exceptional and relegate the very good Sam Cane to a bit part player. They've also got an entirely new midfield to bed in.

Len wrote:

Puja wrote: I'm still comfortable - we've got a much bigger scope for improvement than they do. In 2 years, there's a possibility we could be confronting them as near equals, which I'd prefer to being plucky and trying to catch them unawares.

Puja

Or England could go the other way and regress when the new coach honeymoon period is over.

Or NZ could fall away after their invincibility aura is punctured by a couple of teams. Who knows?

I'm not sure how much of our upswing is due to Eddie - we have got a phenomenal group of young players and, absent the selection errors and abrupt swings of tactics that punctuated the last years of Lancaster, it's not that surprising that they've started to impress.

Puja

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Puja wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
And so will they. They'll be hardened by a test series against the Lions and numerous fights against quality opposition in the 4N. This is a better time to play the ABs than any time in about 7 years.

I'm still comfortable - we've got a much bigger scope for improvement than they do. In 2 years, there's a possibility we could be confronting them as near equals, which I'd prefer to being plucky and trying to catch them unawares.

Puja

I think they've got at least as much scope for improvement as you do. There are plenty of greenhorns around their squad. Take Ardie Savea for example. If he becomes the player I think he could be then we'll be seeing something utterly exceptional and relegate the very good Sam Cane to a bit part player. They've also got an entirely new midfield to bed in.

Yeah, but there's a lot more room to improve between average and very good, than there is between very good and slightly better. Plus the improvements are much easier to effect from a lower starting position.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Len wrote:

Puja wrote: I'm still comfortable - we've got a much bigger scope for improvement than they do. In 2 years, there's a possibility we could be confronting them as near equals, which I'd prefer to being plucky and trying to catch them unawares.

Puja

Or England could go the other way and regress when the new coach honeymoon period is over.

Or NZ could fall away after their invincibility aura is punctured by a couple of teams. Who knows?

I'm not sure how much of our upswing is due to Eddie - we have got a phenomenal group of young players and, absent the selection errors and abrupt swings of tactics that punctuated the last years of Lancaster, it's not that surprising that they've started to impress.

Puja

NZ could lose the aura, but did we between 2011 and 2015? We'll just have to see. Englands 9/10 positions are weak and England are still selecting players like Nowell, who lets be honest isn't that great. And depth?

Len wrote:

Puja wrote:

Len wrote:
Or England could go the other way and regress when the new coach honeymoon period is over.

Or NZ could fall away after their invincibility aura is punctured by a couple of teams. Who knows?

I'm not sure how much of our upswing is due to Eddie - we have got a phenomenal group of young players and, absent the selection errors and abrupt swings of tactics that punctuated the last years of Lancaster, it's not that surprising that they've started to impress.

Puja

NZ could lose the aura, but did we between 2011 and 2015? We'll just have to see. Englands 9/10 positions are weak and England are still selecting players like Nowell, who lets be honest isn't that great. And depth?

Well, you didn't really do much losing between 2011 and 2015!

And yes, we have still got (a lot of) weaknesses right now. That's pretty much exactly why I don't want to play your lot until we've fixed some of them.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Puja wrote:
I'm still comfortable - we've got a much bigger scope for improvement than they do. In 2 years, there's a possibility we could be confronting them as near equals, which I'd prefer to being plucky and trying to catch them unawares.

Puja

I think they've got at least as much scope for improvement as you do. There are plenty of greenhorns around their squad. Take Ardie Savea for example. If he becomes the player I think he could be then we'll be seeing something utterly exceptional and relegate the very good Sam Cane to a bit part player. They've also got an entirely new midfield to bed in.

Yeah, but there's a lot more room to improve between average and very good, than there is between very good and slightly better. Plus the improvements are much easier to effect from a lower starting position.

Puja

I'm afraid from what I've seen in super rugby this year and looking at who's injured they've got plenty of scope to improve as a unit. As comforting as it may be to think "That exceptional team surely can't get much better" I just don't think it's true given that many of the players are at the same stage of development as your players.

Puja wrote:

Len wrote:

Puja wrote:
Or NZ could fall away after their invincibility aura is punctured by a couple of teams. Who knows?

I'm not sure how much of our upswing is due to Eddie - we have got a phenomenal group of young players and, absent the selection errors and abrupt swings of tactics that punctuated the last years of Lancaster, it's not that surprising that they've started to impress.

Puja

NZ could lose the aura, but did we between 2011 and 2015? We'll just have to see. Englands 9/10 positions are weak and England are still selecting players like Nowell, who lets be honest isn't that great. And depth?

Well, you didn't really do much losing between 2011 and 2015!

And yes, we have still got (a lot of) weaknesses right now. That's pretty much exactly why I don't want to play your lot until we've fixed some of them.

Puja

We're lucky something happens to your players after joining the premiership after the U20s.

There is certainly scope for the All Blacks to improve. Of the 4 halves played against Aussie, only one was truly great.

The perfect game is yet to be played.

The first half of Sydney wasn't even that great. It was just good defence and basic catch-and-pass again an Australian team that quickly capitulated. They'll need to be much better on the away legs, and I believe that they will be.

Yep. You should mention that to the English.

The Aus v SA legs of the RC will be interesting.