New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[Banquo]

I thought Freeman and IFW looked as though they were getting to grips with the system and had the game sense and physical attributes to play the roles being asked of them.

I don’t think Cokanasiga does. He might have improved in some regards, but he’s still short of the nous and ability to rapidly adjust his positioning.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player. I just don’t see him fitting into this set up.

Both IFW and Freeman got disconnected and struggled from time to time unsurprisingly, as had Daly before them. Takes a load of time and better communication.

Unless you see Coka trying it, neither of us know tbh. Personally I think Coka has had a rough ride and seems to be coming out the other side. Fascinating how fascinated we now are over a wingers defence

Given that this defensive system has to potential to be our major point of difference, I don't see why we wouldn't be. It's kinda important to the overall team performance and it's not like we're advocating picking carthorses who can do nothing but defend.

Puja

I know, I just find it funny the things that catch posters attention.

[TheNomad]

Others have answered for me, so the names mentioned plus Arundell.

Blimey, yeah. Easy to forget him. It's a shame he's over in France for 3 years. Surely a 2 year stint would have been better? Same for Willis.

They're two of our potentially best players - I don't mind losing players at the end of their careers, and I don't mind short stints to help develop their games. In a sense that could be encouraged.

But arguably the best thing for their development is getting experience at test level. They're compromising that.

[Banquo]

Coka's a good player, with moments of brilliance, and he's often unfairly maligned on here - especially his ball handling, which is brilliant for a winger.
However, the way he plays doesn't, and never has, fitted people's expectations for "big lad on wing" (which I thinknis why he gets so mucn criticism) whikst also bei v very much a confidence player, who went through some shit personally and lost his co fidence for a couple of years.
He's also not particularly rugby-intelligent, and is prone to making the wrong decisions.

He's also not a good fit for the Felix Jones defensive system, which requires highly agile wingers with excellent decision making.

agreed, esp on handling and malignation

[Mellsblue]

Others have answered for me, so the names mentioned plus Arundell.

Surely a 2 year stint would have been better? Same for Willis.

I’m fairly certain Willis is 2+1 contract so he could return home soonish. The salary cap is going up next season…

[FKAS]

Speaking of wingers Watson is not due back anytime soon. Think it's a back problem.

[Spiffy]

On Wingers : Sleightholme and Roebuck sticking their hands up for inclusion in the England squad. Slab Nose could play both, move Freeman into 13 and convert IWF into a cannonball 12 who also has gas and footwork

[Puja]

On Wingers : Sleightholme and Roebuck sticking their hands up for inclusion in the England squad. Slab Nose could play both, move Freeman into 13 and convert IWF into a cannonball 12 who also has gas and footwork

I mean, you jest, but he did come to Wasps as a 13 and everyone knows those two positions are interchangeable. I've heard worse ideas.

Puja

[Spiffy]

On Wingers : Sleightholme and Roebuck sticking their hands up for inclusion in the England squad. Slab Nose could play both, move Freeman into 13 and convert IWF into a cannonball 12 who also has gas and footwork

I mean, you jest, but he did come to Wasps as a 13 and everyone knows those two positions are interchangeable. I've heard worse ideas.

Puja

I am only half jesting. IWF is explosive and powerful, if compact. He looks a bit like a mini-Tuilagi but with way more pace, and punches well above his weight. Of course 12 and 13 are not interchangeable these days, but some players (e.g. Lawrence - 12 for England, 13 for Bath) seem to adapt quite well. You have to learn the specific defensive tasks mainly, but the midfield positions (centres) are not totally different and good players can adjust quite quickly. When I started playing rugby in the dark ages, many clubs were still playing left- and right- centres rather than ICs and OCs and there were some multi talented footballers around, comfortable in either slot. That was before the days of large, boshing 12s with limited footballing/playmaking skills, tasked only with carrying across the gain line, making a couple of hard yards, and recycling the ball. (I do realize that a few boshers also have some skills.)

[Banquo]

On Wingers : Sleightholme and Roebuck sticking their hands up for inclusion in the England squad. Slab Nose could play both, move Freeman into 13 and convert IWF into a cannonball 12 who also has gas and footwork

I mean, you jest, but he did come to Wasps as a 13 and everyone knows those two positions are interchangeable. I've heard worse ideas.

Puja

I am only half jesting. IWF is explosive and powerful, if compact. He looks a bit like a mini-Tuilagi but with way more pace, and punches well above his weight. Of course 12 and 13 are not interchangeable these days, but some players (e.g. Lawrence - 12 for England, 13 for Bath) seem to adapt quite well. You have to learn the specific defensive tasks mainly, but the midfield positions (centres) are not totally different and good players can adjust quite quickly. When I started playing rugby in the dark ages, many clubs were still playing left- and right- centres rather than ICs and OCs and there were some multi talented footballers around, comfortable in either slot. That was before the days of large, boshing 12s with limited footballing/playmaking skills, tasked only with carrying across the gain line, making a couple of hard yards, and recycling the ball. (I do realize that a few boshers also have some skills.)

a- don't think Lawrence has had his better moments when actually positioned at i/c. b- the days of left and right were fine when defences and attacks were a lot simpler...but c- no excuse for any centre/top class back not to have top notch handling, kicking and defensive skills.

Its funny how big bod at 12 has come back into fashion, after a phase of obsessing over having an ersatz 10 at i/c, with maybe a big bod at o/c.

[Banquo]

On Wingers : Sleightholme and Roebuck sticking their hands up for inclusion in the England squad. Slab Nose could play both, move Freeman into 13 and convert IWF into a cannonball 12 who also has gas and footwork

I thought this was an April fools

[16th man]

On Wingers : Sleightholme and Roebuck sticking their hands up for inclusion in the England squad. Slab Nose could play both, move Freeman into 13 and convert IWF into a cannonball 12 who also has gas and footwork

I thought this was an April fools

no, the April Fools on here would be the line-up with everyone selected to play in the shirt they wear for their club.

[Banquo]

On Wingers : Sleightholme and Roebuck sticking their hands up for inclusion in the England squad. Slab Nose could play both, move Freeman into 13 and convert IWF into a cannonball 12 who also has gas and footwork

I thought this was an April fools

no, the April Fools on here would be the line-up with everyone selected to play in the shirt they wear for their club.

[Spiffy]

I mean, you jest, but he did come to Wasps as a 13 and everyone knows those two positions are interchangeable. I've heard worse ideas.

Puja

I am only half jesting. IWF is explosive and powerful, if compact. He looks a bit like a mini-Tuilagi but with way more pace, and punches well above his weight. Of course 12 and 13 are not interchangeable these days, but some players (e.g. Lawrence - 12 for England, 13 for Bath) seem to adapt quite well. You have to learn the specific defensive tasks mainly, but the midfield positions (centres) are not totally different and good players can adjust quite quickly. When I started playing rugby in the dark ages, many clubs were still playing left- and right- centres rather than ICs and OCs and there were some multi talented footballers around, comfortable in either slot. That was before the days of large, boshing 12s with limited footballing/playmaking skills, tasked only with carrying across the gain line, making a couple of hard yards, and recycling the ball. (I do realize that a few boshers also have some skills.)

a- don't think Lawrence has had his better moments when actually positioned at i/c. b- the days of left and right were fine when defences and attacks were a lot simpler...but c- no excuse for any centre/top class back not to have top notch handling, kicking and defensive skills.

Its funny how big bod at 12 has come back into fashion, after a phase of obsessing over having an ersatz 10 at i/c, with maybe a big bod at o/c.

All things considered, I'd say Lawrence has done reasonably well at 12 and certainly has the capacity to develop in that slot. It would make things a lot easier for him if he played regularly in the same position for Bath.

[Banquo]

I am only half jesting. IWF is explosive and powerful, if compact. He looks a bit like a mini-Tuilagi but with way more pace, and punches well above his weight. Of course 12 and 13 are not interchangeable these days, but some players (e.g. Lawrence - 12 for England, 13 for Bath) seem to adapt quite well. You have to learn the specific defensive tasks mainly, but the midfield positions (centres) are not totally different and good players can adjust quite quickly. When I started playing rugby in the dark ages, many clubs were still playing left- and right- centres rather than ICs and OCs and there were some multi talented footballers around, comfortable in either slot. That was before the days of large, boshing 12s with limited footballing/playmaking skills, tasked only with carrying across the gain line, making a couple of hard yards, and recycling the ball. (I do realize that a few boshers also have some skills.)

a- don't think Lawrence has had his better moments when actually positioned at i/c. b- the days of left and right were fine when defences and attacks were a lot simpler...but c- no excuse for any centre/top class back not to have top notch handling, kicking and defensive skills.

Its funny how big bod at 12 has come back into fashion, after a phase of obsessing over having an ersatz 10 at i/c, with maybe a big bod at o/c.

All things considered, I'd say Lawrence has done reasonably well at 12 and certainly has the capacity to develop in that slot. It would make things a lot easier for him if he played regularly in the same position for Bath.

...my point being he looked better when Slade was running at i/c in attack.

[FKAS]

a- don't think Lawrence has had his better moments when actually positioned at i/c. b- the days of left and right were fine when defences and attacks were a lot simpler...but c- no excuse for any centre/top class back not to have top notch handling, kicking and defensive skills.

Its funny how big bod at 12 has come back into fashion, after a phase of obsessing over having an ersatz 10 at i/c, with maybe a big bod at o/c.

All things considered, I'd say Lawrence has done reasonably well at 12 and certainly has the capacity to develop in that slot. It would make things a lot easier for him if he played regularly in the same position for Bath.

...my point being he looked better when Slade was running at i/c in attack.

He slotted in as first receiver for Ford to play off of. Otherwise he ran in the 13 channel and looked to link wider if I remember rightly. The ability to mix the attack and the versatility of the two complemented each other quite well by the end of the tournament.

[Banquo]

All things considered, I'd say Lawrence has done reasonably well at 12 and certainly has the capacity to develop in that slot. It would make things a lot easier for him if he played regularly in the same position for Bath.

...my point being he looked better when Slade was running at i/c in attack.

He slotted in as first receiver for Ford to play off of. Otherwise he ran in the 13 channel and looked to link wider if I remember rightly. The ability to mix the attack and the versatility of the two complemented each other quite well by the end of the tournament.

Just thought Lawrence was happier and more confident effective wider and as before won’t have enjoyed the defence video.

[FKAS]

...my point being he looked better when Slade was running at i/c in attack.

He slotted in as first receiver for Ford to play off of. Otherwise he ran in the 13 channel and looked to link wider if I remember rightly. The ability to mix the attack and the versatility of the two complemented each other quite well by the end of the tournament.

Just thought Lawrence was happier and more confident effective wider and as before won’t have enjoyed the defence video.

Against Ireland Lawrence was awesome in defence. France were a lot trickier for him.

Lawrence did better than I expected carrying hard. He's probably more comfortable attacking further out and he's got the pace to make life that bit awkward for the opposition. I liked how he was used in the later games as it gave us options.

[Banquo]

He slotted in as first receiver for Ford to play off of. Otherwise he ran in the 13 channel and looked to link wider if I remember rightly. The ability to mix the attack and the versatility of the two complemented each other quite well by the end of the tournament.

Just thought Lawrence was happier and more confident effective wider and as before won’t have enjoyed the defence video.

Against Ireland Lawrence was awesome in defence. France were a lot trickier for him.

Lawrence did better than I expected carrying hard. He's probably more comfortable attacking further out and he's got the pace to make life that bit awkward for the opposition. I liked how he was used in the later games as it gave us options.

well yes, Slade much more effective as 1st receiver/inside centre as a passer.

[FKAS]

Just thought Lawrence was happier and more confident effective wider and as before won’t have enjoyed the defence video.

Against Ireland Lawrence was awesome in defence. France were a lot trickier for him.

Lawrence did better than I expected carrying hard. He's probably more comfortable attacking further out and he's got the pace to make life that bit awkward for the opposition. I liked how he was used in the later games as it gave us options.

well yes, Slade much more effective as 1st receiver/inside centre as a passer.

Not really. He's useful stepping in as first receiver otherwise he's not much use as a 12 and better at 13.

[Mikey Brown]

Seems like a bit of an odd argument. Would you be happy with Lawrence playing that role if he were starting at 13?

[FKAS]

Seems like a bit of an odd argument. Would you be happy with Lawrence playing that role if he were starting at 13?

They way Aki does for Ireland? Could be a great fake and commit a lot of defenders. Would be a bit of a waste considering how effective he is further out and his passing game isn't as good as Slade's.

Tuipolotu for Scotland is incredible at playing both secondary playmaker and crash ball option. It's no surprise Scotland faltered in the 6N after he got injured. Such a well rounded player he gives Scotland a lot of options and it allows Russell that but more room to operate. If Lawrence could develop along those lines now that would be interesting.

[Banquo]

Against Ireland Lawrence was awesome in defence. France were a lot trickier for him.

Lawrence did better than I expected carrying hard. He's probably more comfortable attacking further out and he's got the pace to make life that bit awkward for the opposition. I liked how he was used in the later games as it gave us options.

well yes, Slade much more effective as 1st receiver/inside centre as a passer.

Not really. He's useful stepping in as first receiver otherwise he's not much use as a 12 and better at 13.

....I said his passing range is more useful when he's at 1st receiver or I/c, and I'll stick by that. I agree I don't particularly want him as a runner at 12.

I've always said he'd have been a better 12 for England than a 13, and certainly better than Farrell there all those years.

[Banquo]

Seems like a bit of an odd argument. Would you be happy with Lawrence playing that role if he were starting at 13?

I think Lawrence looks happier wider. I don't mind the non rocket science version of using him as bosher/decoy like Aki, but think he's more dangerous in the wider channel, and think Slades range of passing is more useful closer in- the mix and match is good though.

I've been advocating a (physical) runner at 12/i/c for about 20 years now, so it feels odd that I'm now pushing someone who looks like said runner out wider

[Banquo]

Seems like a bit of an odd argument. Would you be happy with Lawrence playing that role if he were starting at 13?

They way Aki does for Ireland? Could be a great fake and commit a lot of defenders.

That's not really a novel development is it?

[Mikey Brown]

Seems like a bit of an odd argument. Would you be happy with Lawrence playing that role if he were starting at 13?

They way Aki does for Ireland? Could be a great fake and commit a lot of defenders. Would be a bit of a waste considering how effective he is further out and his passing game isn't as good as Slade's.

Tuipolotu for Scotland is incredible at playing both secondary playmaker and crash ball option. It's no surprise Scotland faltered in the 6N after he got injured. Such a well rounded player he gives Scotland a lot of options and it allows Russell that but more room to operate. If Lawrence could develop along those lines now that would be interesting.

I thought this was essentially the point that Banquo and I were making? Maybe Slade isn't technically playing inside centre, but he's often the centre stood closer in alongside the fly-half so that Lawrence can hit lines outside of that. I'm just not sure it's a useful distinction.

I don't think Lawrence has anywhere near the skillset of Tuipulotu, or even Aki. Obviously it would be great if he had that composure and variety in handling and distribution though.

It's complicated by Slade being the main defensive decision maker at 13 in this setup. Swapping Freeman or another 13 in for Slade, for example, wouldn't necessarily be a simple change with Lawrence staying at 12. Not if we wanted to continue relying on that attacking shape with the 10 floating behind the 12.