Argentina tour

[Scrumhead]

I know right? If you don’t have 20 caps by the time you’re 24, you’re obviously not going to ‘make it’.

[Banquo]

2-0 is a terrific return.

Priceless exposure for a number of players who have shown up very well.

We're in a pretty good place.

Buenos Aires IS lovely

[Banquo]

2-0 is a terrific return.

Priceless exposure for a number of players who have shown up very well.

We're in a pretty good place.

Roebuck and Atkinson showing up very well has really helped our depth in the backline. Heyes and Baxter coming of age has meant we've got four props that we can trust at international level with more coming through behind.

There's a lot of positives with a friendly against the USA which we can use to give some additional exposure.

also thought Coles, Pepper, Willis (tho conditioning) went well, and Muir did some unusual handy things. Mystified why CCS didn't get more of a run yesterday tho, unless he was poorly

[Scrumhead]

Yeah. To be fair, with the obvious exception of the hookers (other than George), I think all of the tight 5 players have done well across both games. Ewels is much maligned but has been very solid.

[Stom]

As much as I liked seeing the good performances from Baxter, Roebuck, Hayes, et al., it was more Atkinson that did it for me. Could he be “the solution”?

[Captainhaircut]

Hooker, full back and scrum half feel like the positions left of most concern for me.

LCD is often injured and not convinced his darts are that reliable. George getting on. Dan not playing enough. I think Langdon has potential but maybe a bit underpowered? Blake and Jibulu feel like they have the all round game and size. Still think Blamire could really force his way in next season- he has everything.

At full back, Steward didn’t convince me. Feels like his super strength has been negated and whilst the rest of his game is improving, it still probably isn’t good enough. Furbank always injured. Hendy feels like the one to me but he’s injured a lot and may not get that much game time at full back for Saints. Interested to see how Loader and Redshaw go at Gloucs.

Scrum halves didn’t convince. Not quite sure what the answer is here as after the two who played here it’s Randall, Quirke and Porter who are all very hot and cold.

[p/d]

Coaches need special mention.

[Banquo]

As much as I liked seeing the good performances from Baxter, Roebuck, Hayes, et al., it was more Atkinson that did it for me. Could he be “the solution”?

Dingers will be a tad miffed at being crocked, as he'd have done the identical job. Maybe Atkinson is a bit more physical, and I'd say he has leapfrogged him.

[Banquo]

Coaches need special mention.

Defence looked a step up. Attack started well yesterday, but Argentina then stopped resourcing defensive rucks and upped their line speed and we looked a bit ragged to my eyes, and didn't adapt....no coincidence that was when Willis started blowing perhaps?

Kicking the life out of it then became the default and it was effective in territory terms, but our finishing was shit.

[Stom]

As much as I liked seeing the good performances from Baxter, Roebuck, Hayes, et al., it was more Atkinson that did it for me. Could he be “the solution”?

Dingers will be a tad miffed at being crocked, as he'd have done the identical job. Maybe Atkinson is a bit more physical, and I'd say he has leapfrogged him.

That extra physicality does make a big difference, IMO. In this case, at least.

[Scrumhead]

As much as I liked seeing the good performances from Baxter, Roebuck, Hayes, et al., it was more Atkinson that did it for me. Could he be “the solution”?

Dingers will be a tad miffed at being crocked, as he'd have done the identical job. Maybe Atkinson is a bit more physical, and I'd say he has leapfrogged him.

True. Dingwall offers something similar, but the timing and accuracy of Atkinson’s pull backs is a thing of beauty. I’ve really enjoyed seeing him bring his Gloucester game to test rugby.

Will Joseph has been practically forgotten after injuries and indifferent form at Quins but if he and Atkinson strike up a good partnership, that combination could be very handy indeed.

[Banquo]

As much as I liked seeing the good performances from Baxter, Roebuck, Hayes, et al., it was more Atkinson that did it for me. Could he be “the solution”?

Dingers will be a tad miffed at being crocked, as he'd have done the identical job. Maybe Atkinson is a bit more physical, and I'd say he has leapfrogged him.

That extra physicality does make a big difference, IMO. In this case, at least.

aye, weird as their stats are identical, suspect Seb is a little quicker and so more force in the carry and tackle. Dingwall probably more reliable generally and his vision is excellent. We shall see- Seb also 3 years younger, which will become relevant.

[Banquo]

As much as I liked seeing the good performances from Baxter, Roebuck, Hayes, et al., it was more Atkinson that did it for me. Could he be “the solution”?

Dingers will be a tad miffed at being crocked, as he'd have done the identical job. Maybe Atkinson is a bit more physical, and I'd say he has leapfrogged him.

True. Dingwall offers something similar, but the timing and accuracy of Atkinson’s pull backs is a thing of beauty. I’ve really enjoyed seeing him bring his Gloucester game to test rugby.

Will Joseph has been practically forgotten after injuries and indifferent form at Quins but if he and Atkinson strike up a good partnership, that combination could be very handy indeed.

Dingwall is his equal or even better as a passer and line straightener, but Seb is a bit quicker imo and therefore a bit more punch. Seb's issue at Glaws was consistency, but he's been very consistent in tests so...tick.

[Danno]

We finally have a nice problem to have at 12

[p/d]

Both bloody good player’s!
Atkinson has been consistently good for Glaws and Dingers excellent at the very basics that makes for a quality 12.

[Banquo]

Both bloody good player’s!
Atkinson has been consistently good for Glaws and Dingers excellent at the very basics that makes for a quality 12.

Yus

[p/d]

Coaches need special mention.

Defence looked a step up. Attack started well yesterday, but Argentina then stopped resourcing defensive rucks and upped their line speed and we looked a bit ragged to my eyes, and didn't adapt....no coincidence that was when Willis started blowing perhaps?

Kicking the life out of it then became the default and it was effective in territory terms, but our finishing was shit.

Not saying it wa perfect but the attack looked more fluid and our shape and intent a step up.

2 games on with new combinations. Very pleasing

[Insouciant]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Joe Marchant might coming back to England for next season. He was good in the RWC and could put himself back in contention for the 13 shirt.

[Stom]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Joe Marchant might coming back to England for next season. He was good in the RWC and could put himself back in contention for the 13 shirt.

Marchant is quality, and would add a lot to this England team.

[Puja]

Agreed with the comments about the defence. Bit more linespeed than the 6N, but less than the attempt to mimic the FJones blitz in the autumn and it appeared to hit the sweet spot between disrupting the oppo and losing our own cohesion. Was especially pleased by the quality of the tackling - we put in a lot of hard hits that stopped big runners dead, but also put in some very effective low chop tackles to bring people to ground as quickly as possible, and our tackle percentage must've been incredibly high. Very pleasing - El Abd gets high marks so far.

Lineout was a shambles, but to be expected with George's late withdrawal. Shame - while we did get the chance to learn that the backup hookers aren't up to it yesterday, it meant that we learned far less about the rest of the team because of the haemorrhaging of possession. Could've been a rout if we'd had George available.

That was the best game I've seen from Spencer in an England shirt. Granted, that's a very low bar to trip over, but he actually looked a competent international, which was nice.

Puja

[FKAS]

At full back, Steward didn’t convince me. Feels like his super strength has been negated and whilst the rest of his game is improving, it still probably isn’t good enough. Furbank always injured. Hendy feels like the one to me but he’s injured a lot and may not get that much game time at full back for Saints. Interested to see how Loader and Redshaw go at Gloucs.

Hendy had some minging performances at the back this season. He's phenomenal going forward but under the high ball can go to pieces. His positioning isn't great though he does hit hard in the tackle.

I didn't see the game yesterday but generally Steward's issues are the soft skills and his turning circle. The soft skills are coming, his agility less so. If he could dial in that massive boot of his and offer a genuine kicking threat then combined with his other strengths you could probably overlook his weaknesses but as his kicking margin for error is about a 15m square currently not so much.

Furbank does lack physicality but he's a tidy and intelligent player. Fitness is a thing for him.

Be interesting to see where Redshaw plays for Glaws next season.

[Which Tyler]

I'm not seeing the fuss over Hendy TBH, same with Hodge. Good going forwards, but there's more to FB play than that. They're young, they'll develop, but I'm personally not interested in them until they have.

One name I would throw out at FB (complete with proviso) is that if DeGlanville keeps up his form from this year, he could very easily be getting the starts ahead of Carreras. Is also very much the same playmaking style of FB as Furbank in terms of not changing the gameplan due to injury.

[Puja]

At full back, Steward didn’t convince me. Feels like his super strength has been negated and whilst the rest of his game is improving, it still probably isn’t good enough. Furbank always injured. Hendy feels like the one to me but he’s injured a lot and may not get that much game time at full back for Saints. Interested to see how Loader and Redshaw go at Gloucs.

Hendy had some minging performances at the back this season. He's phenomenal going forward but under the high ball can go to pieces. His positioning isn't great though he does hit hard in the tackle.

I didn't see the game yesterday but generally Steward's issues are the soft skills and his turning circle. The soft skills are coming, his agility less so. If he could dial in that massive boot of his and offer a genuine kicking threat then combined with his other strengths you could probably overlook his weaknesses but as his kicking margin for error is about a 15m square currently not so much.

Furbank does lack physicality but he's a tidy and intelligent player. Fitness is a thing for him.

Be interesting to see where Redshaw plays for Glaws next season.

This might be a controversial opinion, but is anyone else seeing Steward as being pretty rubbish under the high ball at the moment? He seems to fluff at least one simple catch every game and doesn't appear dominant in contested balls anymore. Not just about the law changes - it feels like he's actively doing worse than other players in the same match.

I'm just reminded of Fazlet's goal-kicking and the reputation around it, with commentators' short memories leading to them saying, "Well that's a rare event!" as he knocks on for the third time in the game.

Puja

[FKAS]

At full back, Steward didn’t convince me. Feels like his super strength has been negated and whilst the rest of his game is improving, it still probably isn’t good enough. Furbank always injured. Hendy feels like the one to me but he’s injured a lot and may not get that much game time at full back for Saints. Interested to see how Loader and Redshaw go at Gloucs.

Hendy had some minging performances at the back this season. He's phenomenal going forward but under the high ball can go to pieces. His positioning isn't great though he does hit hard in the tackle.

I didn't see the game yesterday but generally Steward's issues are the soft skills and his turning circle. The soft skills are coming, his agility less so. If he could dial in that massive boot of his and offer a genuine kicking threat then combined with his other strengths you could probably overlook his weaknesses but as his kicking margin for error is about a 15m square currently not so much.

Furbank does lack physicality but he's a tidy and intelligent player. Fitness is a thing for him.

Be interesting to see where Redshaw plays for Glaws next season.

This might be a controversial opinion, but is anyone else seeing Steward as being pretty rubbish under the high ball at the moment? He seems to fluff at least one simple catch every game and doesn't appear dominant in contested balls anymore. Not just about the law changes - it feels like he's actively doing worse than other players in the same match.

I'm just reminded of Fazlet's goal-kicking and the reputation around it, with commentators' short memories leading to them saying, "Well that's a rare event!" as he knocks on for the third time in the game.

Puja

I think Steward goes for more competitions in the air than most others, including covering across for his wingers and coming from a long way back for those that are a bit shorter that other fullbacks would leave. Because he's expected to catch everyone cleanly when he does drop one it's a real point of conversation whereas when he takes it then it's standard stuff.

He's good on the air but he's not infallible. A bit of lazy commentary does mean it's over hyped. Doesn't help that Pollard used to stand in the backfield with him at Tigers and the commentary would occasionally fail to tell them apart.

[Stom]

I'm not seeing the fuss over Hendy TBH, same with Hodge. Good going forwards, but there's more to FB play than that. They're young, they'll develop, but I'm personally not interested in them until they have.

One name I would throw out at FB (complete with proviso) is that if DeGlanville keeps up his form from this year, he could very easily be getting the starts ahead of Carreras. Is also very much the same playmaking style of FB as Furbank in terms of not changing the gameplan due to injury.

Seems a good shout.

Marcus is getting more time at 15, but if anything he's getting worse there...and that may just be a form thing...but I just feel like he's better suited to 10.

What does the first team squad look like after this tour? As I feel like a few of these guys have played themselves very much into the squad, and it'll be interesting to see how we progress. With the Lions players, are we now looking at:

Genge, Baxter, Rodd
George, LCD, ?
Stuart, Heyes, AOF
Itoje, Ewels
Chessum, Martin, Coles
TCurry, BCurry, Pepper
Underhill, Pollock
Willis, Earl
Mitchell, JvP, Spencer
Ford, Smith, Smith
Freeman, Murley, Muir
Atkinson, Dingwall, ?
Slade, Lawrence, ?
Roebuck, IFW
Furbank, ?

Pack is looking good. Backs...still need some work, but some holes filled.