RugbyRebels

That really is a horrible thought, Puja. Haskell goes from being the weakest in the original trio to the best in the new one.

I really don't want to see that.

Mikey Brown wrote:That really is a horrible thought, Puja. Haskell goes from being the weakest in the original trio to the best in the new one.

I really don't want to see that.

Haskell has played well with Hughes for Wasps. Those two plus Itoje might make a decent unit. Haskell obviously won't get better but I am sure that Hughes will.

Oakboy wrote:

Puja wrote: Bit of a bugger for our 6N as well. If Launchbury's fit, then Itoje at 6, but if not then I'm not sure. Wood may have improved, but not enough that the thought of a Wood/Haskell/Hughes back row doesn't fill me with dread.

Puja

But, would you have picked Robshaw/Haskell/Billy V in the first place?

I'd've picked two of them. I wouldn't've picked Haskell and I certainly wouldn't've picked Wood this autumn, so it does go to show that Eddie's smarter than me. Not that that's a high bar to trip over or anything, but I'm sure he'll be pleased with the accolade.

Puja

No idea why anyone wants Rocco for England on today's display. England have a reputation to think of!

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Puja wrote: Bit of a bugger for our 6N as well. If Launchbury's fit, then Itoje at 6, but if not then I'm not sure. Wood may have improved, but not enough that the thought of a Wood/Haskell/Hughes back row doesn't fill me with dread.

Puja

But, would you have picked Robshaw/Haskell/Billy V in the first place?

I'd've picked two of them. I wouldn't've picked Haskell and I certainly wouldn't've picked Wood this autumn, so it does go to show that Eddie's smarter than me. Not that that's a high bar to trip over or anything, but I'm sure he'll be pleased with the accolade.

Puja

Agreed. (Mayor Quimby...signed in his absence)

Oakboy wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:That really is a horrible thought, Puja. Haskell goes from being the weakest in the original trio to the best in the new one.

I really don't want to see that.

Haskell has played well with Hughes for Wasps. Those two plus Itoje might make a decent unit. Haskell obviously won't get better but I am sure that Hughes will.

What Robshaw brings to the table is a reliability, a massive work rate and a real willingness to do the dirty work.

On paper, 6. Wood 7. Haskell 8. Hughes doesn't look great but I would back Wood to perform Robshaw's role and I'm hoping Hughes will have gained enough confidence from his performance against the Aussies to deputise ably enough for Billy.

Haskell is more of the unknown quantity for me. He was immense in Australia but for him to come back at the same level after an extended lay-off and perform the same destructive role is a big ask. I hope he can do it because the other options are less than ideal.

Scrumhead wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:That really is a horrible thought, Puja. Haskell goes from being the weakest in the original trio to the best in the new one.

I really don't want to see that.

Haskell has played well with Hughes for Wasps. Those two plus Itoje might make a decent unit. Haskell obviously won't get better but I am sure that Hughes will.

What Robshaw brings to the table is a reliability, a massive work rate and a real willingness to do the dirty work.

On paper, 6. Wood 7. Haskell 8. Hughes doesn't look great but I would back Wood to perform Robshaw's role and I'm hoping Hughes will have gained enough confidence from his performance against the Aussies to deputise ably enough for Billy.

Haskell is more of the unknown quantity for me. He was immense in Australia but for him to come back at the same level after an extended lay-off and perform the same destructive role is a big ask. I hope he can do it because the other options are less than ideal.

You're missing something important Robshaw brings. In that Robshaw, Haskell, Billy backrow, Robshaw is the brains. He's the organiser who is often the one moving defenders around to make the ruck more effective.

Wood comes nowhere close to Robshaw in this regard. Without Robshaw, along with the Vunipolas, we could see our first loss under Eddie. There's a reason Young has proven more and more influential for Wasps...

There is only so many key players you can take out of a team. Eddie does brilliantly to tweak what he has but it's not looking great for the 6N.

twitchy wrote:There is only so many key players you can take out of a team. Eddie does brilliantly to tweak what he has but it's not looking great for the 6N.

Why? We look to only be missing the Vunipolas and Robshaw. Compared with the AIs, Eddie has more choice, doesn't he?

Oakboy wrote:

twitchy wrote:There is only so many key players you can take out of a team. Eddie does brilliantly to tweak what he has but it's not looking great for the 6N.

Why? We look to only be missing the Vunipolas and Robshaw. Compared with the AIs, Eddie has more choice, doesn't he?

I'm inclined to agree. Stom has a good point about Robshaw's organisational skills, but I am hoping that the experience/quality across the rest of the team will help to see us through.

Right now, I feel like we just need to get the France and Wales games over and done with. I don't care if we win ugly, we just need the results. I'm not suggesting the Scots will be a pushover by any means, but it's a home game we haven't lost in a long time and if we already have the momentum of two wins by then, you'd have to make us favourites. Similarly, I just don't see us losing to the Italians at HQ.

Oakboy wrote:

twitchy wrote:There is only so many key players you can take out of a team. Eddie does brilliantly to tweak what he has but it's not looking great for the 6N.

Why? We look to only be missing the Vunipolas and Robshaw. Compared with the AIs, Eddie has more choice, doesn't he?

Because thats 3 nailed on starters out of 8 players in the pack? With Launch (and Kruis probably?) that makes quite a dent on the pack we've built, doesn't it? Toying with 7 when you've got 6 and 8 right is a lot easier.

And what are people's thoughts on a 4. Itoje 5. Lawes pairing? I'm undecided.

Never ideal losing key players but having to draw on reserve strength is part and parcel of the game.

I dont think we're too badly off. Bar Manu, all our backs are fit. Up front we have itoje and Haskell back. All our hookers are fit, we have excellent cover at LH and options at flanker.

This might change if we lose 2 or 3 more frontline players, but as it stands we look fine to me.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

twitchy wrote:There is only so many key players you can take out of a team. Eddie does brilliantly to tweak what he has but it's not looking great for the 6N.

Why? We look to only be missing the Vunipolas and Robshaw. Compared with the AIs, Eddie has more choice, doesn't he?

Because thats 3 nailed on starters out of 8 players in the pack? With Launch (and Kruis probably?) that makes quite a dent on the pack we've built, doesn't it? Toying with 7 when you've got 6 and 8 right is a lot easier.

And what are people's thoughts on a 4. Itoje 5. Lawes pairing? I'm undecided.

Today's DT reports that Kruis and Launchbury will be fit for the 6N. That gives, say, Marler for Mako, a 2nd row of Launchbury and Lawes, a back-row of Itoje, Hughes and Haskell. It still leaves Kruis and Wood on the bench. That is better than the finishing AIs situation for the pack. Add on the return of Watson and Nowell to the backs and it looks better still.

Oakboy wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Why? We look to only be missing the Vunipolas and Robshaw. Compared with the AIs, Eddie has more choice, doesn't he?

Because thats 3 nailed on starters out of 8 players in the pack? With Launch (and Kruis probably?) that makes quite a dent on the pack we've built, doesn't it? Toying with 7 when you've got 6 and 8 right is a lot easier.

And what are people's thoughts on a 4. Itoje 5. Lawes pairing? I'm undecided.

Today's DT reports that Kruis and Launchbury will be fit for the 6N. That gives, say, Marler for Mako, a 2nd row of Launchbury and Lawes, a back-row of Itoje, Hughes and Haskell. It still leaves Kruis and Wood on the bench. That is better than the finishing AIs situation for the pack. Add on the return of Watson and Nowell to the backs and it looks better still.

Agreed. Let's also remember that Mako had only recently leapfrogged Marler. IIRC, Marler started the last 6N as first choice.

Mako obviously adds a lot more in the loose but Marler is better than most country'a first choice looseheads IMO.

The backrow is a worry. We'll be missing two out of the three first choice, one of which is probably our best/most important player (B Rolipola), and the third is only just coming back from a long layoff.
If we're also missing Launchbury and Kruis, news on these two seems to change with the weather, then the pack really starts to look compromised.

Both Dai Young and McCall were pretty unequivocal from the start that Kruis and Launchbury would be fit for the 6N's. It seems the press like to drum up the 'England in injury crisis' story at every available opportunity. I remember during the autumn when Kruis was out and McCall said he would miss something like 6 weeks but was likely to be fit for the last test match or two, and all the reports in the papers said that he'd miss the entire series.

Very annoying.

Lawes is looking back to being close to his best over the last few games, taking on a lot more carrying and doing it much better than he used to as well. Harrison is also starting to play like he did when he emerged last season, with the last few games seeing him return to his aggressive carrying style

Robshaw out for 12 weeks. Balls

Balls x2. Not unexpected but still a blow.

Bad news. The backrow is going to be a problem. Haskell's blow looked pretty bad, too.

So a completely new back row then.

twitchy wrote:So a completely new back row then.

How do you mean? Hughes and Wood played in the last match. Itoje has played at 6 before. They make up the probable starting trio. Morgan, Beaumont and Harrison have all been capped amongst the bench options. Slater is in excellent form if you want an outside runner for bench choice to cover 2nd and back row.

fivepointer wrote:Balls x2. Not unexpected but still a blow.

I'm less disappointed if Launch and Kruis are going to be fit. I'd prefer Itoje at 4, but he's a more than handy option at 6.

Puja

Timbo wrote:Both Dai Young and McCall were pretty unequivocal from the start that Kruis and Launchbury would be fit for the 6N's. It seems the press like to drum up the 'England in injury crisis' story at every available opportunity. I remember during the autumn when Kruis was out and McCall said he would miss something like 6 weeks but was likely to be fit for the last test match or two, and all the reports in the papers said that he'd miss the entire series.

Very annoying.

I always get fooled by this. Each injury story seems to get rereleased each time there is an update. On top of that, if any player misses a club game they are reported as another doubt for the 6N/AIs. Sometimes I wonder how England will get a team together only to turn the TV on at the beginning of the tournament to find it is not that different to last time out

Papers and pundits starting to talk up Jason Woodward, wish they wouldn't as Bris need him a lot more than England!