RugbyRebels

A few months ago the world's newest country South Sudan celebrated its fifth anniversary. Previously there had been a terrible civil war between north and south Sudan. The US supported southern independence, undoubtedly because of its oil reserves. Therefore George Clooney was used to garner public support, probably due to the fact American politicians had lost all credibility at the time due mainly to the war on Iraq. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also flew to Africa, however, to support southern independence. The situation was portrayed as a democratic black Christian south wanting to get out from under a despotic Arab Muslim north. In fact, the south used child soldiers in its conflict with the north, and United States policy strictly forbids support of any means for armies which engage in the practice. So how could they support southern Sudan? Quite simply: Clinton delivered the waiver, and as Secretary of State it was her role at this time to advise president Barack Obama. The result has been one of the worst failed states on the entire planet with an economy in free-fall, following years of civil war between president Salva Kiir Mayardit's Dinka tribe and the Nuer of his former deputy Riek Machar. Tens of thousands of lives have been lost, and such gruesome practices as burning alive, rape and castration are widespread. At least half of the nation's 12 million people face starvation. Meanwhile, the UN has proved toothless, while the international media displays relatively little interest in the issue. Certainly it has not been brought to the fore as Clinton campaigns for the US presidency, the media and public alike displaying far more interest in Donald Trump's personal scandals.

Good series of articles on the topic here, for anyone actually interested: https://theintercept.com/2016/06/09/hil ... -soldiers/

Incidentally, I had two friends working in Sudan at the time of the split, one in the north, the other in the south. I was on the brink of visiting the former, even though he had advised me it was incredibly boring in the capital Khartoum. The latter actually had to be air-lifted out of the South Sudanese capital of Juba when the civil war broke out!

The situation in South Sudan is a tragedy and it's horrendous how the hope from 2012 has been eroded. It should absolutely be a huge international story, though my personal opinion is that progress must be local and regional.

However I find it extremely distasteful to see people using civil war and people starving for their own ends, in this case pushing their anti-western agenda.

Yes, I agree it deserves more coverage, which is why I wrote this blurb after reading that excellent series of articles. I'm not sure where you're coming from with your reference to 'anti-Western' agenda, but it is certainly topical, with the American election campaign in progress and so much attention on Trump's misdemeanors, to mention US and Hillary Clinton's involvement in this tragic affair. Of course, the roots of the problem go back much further, to the colonial era and in particular the British Empire. I believe Winston Churchill cut his teeth in the military mowing down Sudanese tribesmen in their droves with maxim machine guns...

Tweet it to lilly allen she might apologise to you.

rowan wrote:Yes, I agree it deserves more coverage, which is why I wrote this blurb after reading that excellent series of articles. I'm not sure where you're coming from with your reference to 'anti-Western' agenda, but it is certainly topical, with the American election campaign in progress and so much attention on Trump's misdemeanors, to mention US and Hillary Clinton's involvement in this tragic affair. Of course, the roots of the problem go back much further, to the colonial era and in particular the British Empire. I believe Winston Churchill cut his teeth in the military mowing down Sudanese tribesmen in their droves with maxim machine guns...

If you want to talk about the ins and outs of the Naivasha peace agreement, the various interests at play in the IGAD sponsored talks or even the impact that the rainy season will have then I will read with interest. Don't trivialise the suffering of millions by making it only about the protagonists of an election in a country thousands of miles away.

If you want to discuss an issue then that's fine, commendable even, but give credit to the fact that local actors have their own motivations, agendas and interests at heart. At best it is using a terrible situation to push your own world view and therefore extremely cynical. At worst it is horribly western centric and patronising to all those involved.

As EinE says, I'm in danger of taking myself far too seriously on the Internet so I'll leave it at that.

In fact, Switchskier, it is you who is attempting to stifle discussion on the issue, which is particularly hypocritical in view of your comments regarding the lack of coverage for the issue. To discuss the problems in Sudan without mentioning the fact that the wedge was driven in to a large degree by the US is to simply ignore the facts. To discuss the problems in Sudan without mentioning the fact that one of the candidates for the American presidency was instrumental in allowing support to the south in spite of the use of child soldiers, is to ignore one particularly topical aspect of the situation. You're attempting to blackmail others into silence on details you prefer to ignore. So it is you who is burying the issue and thereby doing a major disservice to the many victims of this horrific conflict.

I blame George Clooney.

What else?

morepork wrote:I blame George Clooney.

I don't. They just used him at the spokesperson because their own politicians have zero credibility in the world any more. Hollywood is merely the brainwashing department of the deep state.

I was in Sudan before the split. I didn't go to the South as it seemed a bit hairy and wasn't really on my route. I had some interesting experiences in Khartoum, including drifting through the confluence of the Niles in a boat driven by the self proclaimed only Rasta in Sudan, Mutabaruka blasting on the stereo (once I fixed it for him), ending up at the Blue Nile Yacht Club where the storage shed is the stranded steamship Melik, which was the last working Victorian gunboat on the Nile.

The Sudanese were generally very welcoming, but the ones in uniform got a bit shouty if you tried to photograph a bridge or something vital like that.


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Melik mean 'angel' in Arabic. That's also what it means in Turkish - which isn't related to Arabic but absorbed a lot of Arabic words, of course.

To the Mahdi's forces Melik mostly meant "Shit! Look out for that 4-inch howitzer and those Maxim Guns."

Melik's sister ships were the Sultan and the Sheikh so I guess that all makes sense. Until the Mahdi took over, Sudan was at least nominally controlled by the Ottoman Empire through its vassal rulers in Egypt (to grossly oversimplify). Those gunboats (and others) were shipped to Sudan and assembled by Kitchener's forces who were sent to avenge General Gordon's death, give the Mahdi a bloody good kicking and take control of the Sudan for the glory of the Empire*, hurrah!

*Technically, for the glory of the Anglo-Egyptian condominium, by it's a bit too complex really.



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When people talk about 'the split' I take it they mean the election ?.

Africa's heart of darkness is not going to change quickly. It isn't helped by backdoor colonialism destabilising the countries/states/tribes (When people are degraded, dehumanised, exploited, and demoralised for long periods of time, their wretchedness invades their cultural and political forms)....
but these guys get to see an Alice through the looking glass world when they come into contact with western television and if their path to that world involves hacking a few people into little pieces then that's ok for them. Hell these tribes have been chopping people up since forever....we used to do it as recently as 200 years ago.


http://www.pambazuka.org/governance/%E2 ... y%E2%80%99
This is from 2009 but it's very interesting.

The routine harvest of insult and injury reaped by the people of Africa during centuries of colonial abuse caused the African people to discover facts about the frailty of the human condition better left unknown – the vulnerability of human flesh, the defenselessness of timeworn social forms, and the incapacity of an ethos of generosity and welcome to protect against sheer aggression. Through beatings, rapes, and myriad diverse humiliations, Africans discovered that unqualified trust in their fellow humans was naive and foolhardy. Worst of all, Africans discovered the inability of the healthiest mentality and most robust self-esteem to withstand prolonged indignity. Where insults are swallowed daily and moral outcries suppressed, where peoples are pushed from sacred lands, clans are scattered, and tribal solidarity offended, communal resentment eventually gives rise to agendas of revenge that turn the decent into the bloodthirsty. Like a time bomb, the colonial world, from the bloody moment of its birth, ticked away toward a vicious and brutal finale that would not suddenly abate with the advent of independence.

Hell these tribes have been chopping people up since forever....we used to do it as recently as 200 years ago.

People in general have been slaughtering each other since forever, with Europeans the main culprits over the past couple of thousand years. Africa, like the Middle East and elsewhere, was certainly a lot more peaceful before colonialism and nationalism, before borders were drawn up by Europeans with complete disregard for tribal boundaries. African tribes did not even have chiefs; they had councils of elders, like the Native Americans. Chiefs were a European invention - give one fellow all the guns, provided he follows orders, and he'll rule the rest of the tribe by force. That system has basically continued in the post-colonial era with the emergence of African 'Big Men,' ruling as brutal dictators while serving their masters in the US & Europe.

rowan wrote: People in general have been slaughtering each other since forever, with Europeans the main culprits over the past couple of thousand years. Africa, like the Middle East and elsewhere, was certainly a lot more peaceful before colonialism and nationalism, before borders were drawn up by Europeans with complete disregard for tribal boundaries. African tribes did not even have chiefs; they had councils of elders, like the Native Americans. Chiefs were a European invention - give one fellow all the guns, provided he follows orders, and he'll rule the rest of the tribe by force. That system has basically continued in the post-colonial era with the emergence of African 'Big Men,' ruling as brutal dictators while serving their masters in the US & Europe.

Yes,....Can't argue with any of that.
Except they got it all from our example. And to say that our viciousness creates theirs.
Which is obvious and without need of explanation..

I've just read Alan Moorehead's two-part history of the area ("The White Nile" and "The Blue Nile") which was very readable, and does fairly well in treating various sources critically. Pakenham's "Scramble for Africa" is probably the best, concise history of the colonisation that I have read, and sits well on my bookshelf next to Meredith's "The State of Africa" dealing with the independence of African nations.




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I read the History of Modern Africa from cover to cover not so many years ago. Over 1000 pages long, as I recall, and covered an awful lot. I think the only book I've read specific to Sudan was Heart of Darfur by Lisa Baker, who I believe is from NZ. It wasn't particularly insightful, regrettably, more just a personal account than an overview.

rowan wrote:I read the History of Modern Africa from cover to cover not so many years ago. Over 1000 pages long, as I recall, and covered an awful lot. I think the only book I've read specific to Sudan was Heart of Darfur by Lisa Baker, who I believe is from NZ. It wasn't particularly insightful, regrettably, more just a personal account than an overview.

Oh, how could I have forgotten 'Heart of Darkness.' There might have been others too. But I was thinking of contemporary Sudan (south & north).

You should read Moorehead's books then. Not too dense but well researched with sources cited.


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Lizard wrote:You should read Moorehead's books then. Not too dense but well researched with sources cited.


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Cheers. I'll look out for them. Can't always get what I want in Turkey, though there are plenty of stores with a reasonable English language book section, so I prefer not to buy online.

Interesting account of the Sudanese situation here:

American officials have acknowledged over the years that the evidence that prompted President Clinton to order the missile strike on the Shifa plant was not as solid as first portrayed. Indeed, officials later said that there was no proof that the plant had been manufacturing or storing nerve gas, as initially suspected by the Americans, or had been linked to Osama bin Laden, who was a resident of Khartoum in the 1980’s… no apology has been made and no restitution offered, which has Sudan’s government steaming, even seven years after the ground shook and the dark sky over Khartoum turned light as the plant was hit.

On the most recent anniversary of the bombing, Sudanese authorities did what they always do and repeated their call for a United Nations investigation of the American attack on the factory, which, if nothing else, was a major provider of medicines for humans and animals at the time it was destroyed.

Mustafa Osman Ismail, who was foreign minister until recently, also raised the issue at the United Nations summit meeting in New York last month, saying the bombing “damaged the development efforts of my country and deprived my people of basic medicines.””

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/21/ ... f-horrors/

Not looking good at all:

Conditions in South Sudan were repeatedly likened to those in Rwanda on the eve of its genocide at a special session of the UN human rights council held on Wednesday, with a top official warning that escalating ethnic violence has left the country teetering on the brink of disaster. On the third anniversary of the civil war in the world’s youngest country, members states heard that swift action was required to prevent a genocide, including targeted sanctions and the deployment of a 4,000-strong protection force to separate the warring parties.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... ghts-chief

Where's George Clooney when you need him??

A South Sudanese general has resigned from the army, accusing the country’s president of “ethnic cleansing.”

In a resignation letter seen by AFP on Sunday, Lieutenant-General Thomas Cirillo Swaka said he had “lost patience with the conduct” of President Salva Kiir, who has led the country since its independence from Sudan in 2011.

Cirillo, the deputy head of logistics, said that Kiir and the national army—known as the SPLA—had “systematically frustrated the implementation” of a peace agreement struck in 2015 between Kiir and former vice-president Riek Machar.

Civil war broke out in South Sudan in December 2013, when Kiir accused Machar of plotting a coup. Despite the peace agreement, fighting has continued in South Sudan and left more than 3 million people displaced and thousands dead.

The United Nations and others have warned that the fighting is increasingly proceeding along ethnic lines. Kiir is from the majority Dinka tribe, while Machar hails from the Nuer minority. Dinka make up around one-third of the country’s population, while Nuer constitute around 16 percent, according to the CIA World Factbook.

http://europe.newsweek.com/south-sudan- ... iir-556043

The Sudanese conflict, like most others in modern Africa, had its roots in colonialism. The British ruled Sudan - through Egypt - and helped modernize the predominantly Arab Muslim north, while the black African south was dismissed as "not ready" for modernization and imperial involvement there was largely confined to missionary work - ie Christanization. No need to explain what a powder keg that created for the post-colonial future...

It gets worse...

Parts of war-ravaged South Sudan have been hit by famine.

It is the first time famine has been declared anywhere since 2011.

Officials fear almost half the country could be in a state of food insecurity by July.

“In greater Unity State, some counties are classified in famine or…risk of famine,” said Isaiah Chol Aruai, chairman of South Sudan’s National Bureau of Statistics said at a news conference.

“Famine has become a tragic reality in parts of South Sudan and our worst fears have been realised,” said Serge Tissot, the Food and Agriculture Organisation’s representative in South Sudan.

http://www.euronews.com/2017/02/20/fami ... outh-sudan