Of Coaches & Paedophiles

[rowan]

I wonder how widespread paedophilia is among sporting coaches. Probably this is just the tip of the iceberg. Certainly all kids joining a club or team of any nature these days where adult coaches are involved should be first instructed on what is permissable and what isn't...

It isn’t easy sitting opposite Andy Woodward and hearing, close up, the unspeakable horrors of his childhood and the reasons why, at the age of 43, he finally feels able to tell his story and free himself from the secret – “the massive, horrible burden” – that has shaped his life.

It has been there since the age of 11 when a football-daft kid from a family of Manchester United supporters first came to the attention of the coach, scout and serial paedophile Barry Bennell and it is difficult even to contemplate how much Woodward has suffered before reaching this point where he has offered to waive his anonymity and speak publicly about it for the first time.

He is doing so in the belief there are many others – potentially hundreds, he says – who are living with their own secrets, given Bennell’s employment at Crewe Alexandra in the 1980s and 1990s and close association in the past with Stoke City and Manchester City, as well as junior teams in Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Cheshire and Greater Manchester.

Bennell was sentenced to nine years in prison in 1998 after admitting 23 specimen charges of sexual offences against six boys aged nine to 15. Woodward was among the victims at Crewe and knows of other former pros who were targeted. Many more, he suspects, never made it as professional footballers, whereas his own career, also featuring spells at Bury, Sheffield United and Scunthorpe United, ended at the age of 29 because he was unable to cope with the horrendous aftereffects of what he had to endure.

Woodward had to fake an injury during one game because he was having the kind of panic attack that became a regular feature in his career. He has been suicidal “on probably 10 occasions”. He has spent his professional life battling depression and anxiety, and is haunted by what a man who described himself in legal proceedings as a “monster” told him about some of the other victims.

“My life has been ruined until the age of 43,” Woodward says. “But how many others are there? I’m talking about hundreds of children who Barry Bennell cherry-picked for various football teams and who now, as adults, might still be living with that awful fear.

“We’ve seen with the Jimmy Savile case how people have had the courage, yet I’d say within the football world it’s even harder to speak out. Only now, at the age of 43, I feel I can actually live without that secret and that massive, horrible burden. I want to get it out and give other people an opportunity to do the same. I want to give people strength. I survived it. I lost my career, which was a massive thing for me, but I’m still here. I came through the other side. Other people can have that strength.”

More here: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... y-woodward

[Stones of granite]

Is there something you would like to share?

[rowan]

A juvenile response to sensitive issue, Stones. & this on a forum where people pretend to be outraged by what they deemed to be politically incorrect comments about gender, ethnicity or even nationality

[Stones of granite]

A juvenile response to sensitive issue, Stones. & this on a forum where people pretend to be outraged by what they deemed to be politically incorrect comments about gender, ethnicity or even nationality

With your extensive knowledge of British society and attitudes gleaned from 16 years of internet browsing, I would have thought you would already have been aware of the following facts.
1. It is generally considered poor form to assign responsibility to the victims as you appear to do.
2. There is now a robust system in place in the UK to protect children and vulnerable adults. It's not perfect, but it is certainly very much better than what was there in 1998.

but, of course, you knew that.

[rowan]

So this thread too is perceived as nothing but an opportunity to attack someone who at some point disagreed with your about something. Victim blaming indeed! You obviously don't give a toss about the victims or you wouldn't have made that juvenile comment in response to the original post. & now you're trying to cover up your embarrassment of the fact by pompously reciting the rules...

[Stones of granite]

So this thread too is perceived as nothing but an opportunity to attack someone who at some point disagreed with your about something. Victim blaming indeed! You obviously don't give a toss about the victims or you wouldn't have made that juvenile comment in response to the original post. & now you're trying to cover up your embarrassment of the fact by pompously reciting the rules...

What are you wibbling about now? "pompously reciting the rules"?

I think you're losing the plot Rowan, and don't forget, you were the one who started with the personal abuse on this thread.

Seeing as you are having a bit of a moment, the following phrase taken from your original post is what would be considered assigning responsibility to the victim.

"Certainly all kids joining a club or team of any nature these days where adult coaches are involved should be first instructed on what is permissable and what isn't"

Put a towel over your head for a few moments and see if you can work out what is wrong with that, and whether Andy Woodward had difficulty discerning what is permissable and what isn't.

[rowan]

So you think programs to educate children on the issue equates to victim-blaming? What a silly fellow you are! How are they supposed to protect themselves if they don't know what the dangers are? & this after you responded to the original post with a juvenile comment that exposed your own indifference to the issue and therefore its victims.

[Stones of granite]

So you think programs to educate children on the issue equates to victim-blaming? What a silly fellow you are! How are they supposed to protect themselves if they don't know what the dangers are? & this after you responded to the original post with a juvenile comment that exposed your own indifference to the issue and therefore its victims.

Yeah, and I suppose that women should be educated about the dangers of wearing short skirts to prevent them being raped.

[rowan]

Strangely the internet is full of advice about how to educate children against the dangers of child abuse, and nobody but Stones of Granite appears to be equating this to victim-blaming - or comparing it to telling women not to wear short skirts...

http://childmind.org/article/10-ways-to ... ual-abuse/

http://www.heysigmund.com/are-you-teach ... ual-abuse/

https://ourkidscenter.com/learn/how-to- ... out-abuse/

etc, etc...

[rowan]

The scandal is growing:

Four ex-footballers have appeared together in an emotional interview to tell of their torment after being abused as children by a coach.
Andy Woodward, who was the first to go public last week, wept as Steve Walters, Chris Unsworth and Jason Dunford spoke of being abused by ex-Crewe Alexandra coach Barry Bennell.
Mr Unsworth said he "never told a soul" that he was raped up to 100 times.
Three police forces are investigating claims against more than one person.
Barry Bennell, 62, has served three jail sentences for child sex offences.
Since Mr Woodward's story emerged, several ex-players have made allegations about being sexually abused by coaches as children - a number of them by Bennell, who is currently living in Milton Keynes.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38093421?pos ... 723438#_=_

[cashead]

It was probably always going to. Coaching kids teams would be prime opportunity for grooming for a paedo, and this sort of thing isn't unheard of either - e.g. the Penn State football scandal from a few years ago.

[rowan]

Yes, it's very disturbing. The problem in the past has been that men have been so disinclined to speak out. It must feel very emasculating to accept you are a victim.

[Buggaluggs]

When I was 11 or 12 I played for a club and the coach was always hugging the boys. Not an arm around the shoulder and a back slap but full frontal 4-5 seconds hug. He never picked the far better 14 year olds for the team but went with us 11-12 year olds which I thought odd at the time. And he would give me and my mate a ride home after training - always wanting to drop me off first and take my mate home alone. My mate always made up some old shit to get out at my house. Que another round of awkward hugs. I (for some reason) doubt he ever fully molested a boy but he sure had issues and like having his hands on us. As a naive boy it never occurred to me that he was anything more than a bit weird.

Would a warning on what is and isn't appropriate behaviour from an adult have helped? I dunno. I took about 5% of all advice I got back then. Probably would have helped me if I'd been getting more intensive affection from him like I suspect my mate was.

[Buggaluggs]

I realize my avatar is wholly inappropriate for this thread.

[rowan]

I played soccer for Wellington Diamonds United before starting high school. Oceania Player of the Century Wynton Rufer was in the club at the time, and I played on the same team as him once (He was actually a little older than us, but was so good they couldn't put him in a team that year and he just did the rounds). Turned out the coach of the team above us in my first year was a kiddy fiddler, but by the time they'd figured it out he was long gone. He was apparently an Aussie who had registered with the club under a false name. They didn't make much of a fuss about it in those days and it was never in the news or anything, so far as I recall.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Let's be clear.

Any organisation which allows access to children will have had paedophiles within their number and will only avoid a "scandal" if they are actively surpressing the truth.

Any organisation in the UK which allows access to children will now have child protection rules in place which at a minimum means that criminal records and any other state held information will be checked against the people who work and regularly volunteer there. 2016 is not even 2006, never mind 1998.

telling children what is and isn't acceptable isn't easy without getting very graphic.

[Discreet Hooker]

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious , the F.A. are to conduct their own enquiry into the allegations ! FF;s sake , its a bit like asking Stevie Wonder to choose wallpaper .

[Digby]

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious , the F.A. are to conduct their own enquiry into the allegations ! FF;s sake , its a bit like asking Stevie Wonder to choose wallpaper .

Also the main chap being talked about has been in jail a while now, which really means they've only responded to some coverage in the media and not to the actual events as they already knew them to be.

[Mellsblue]

I realize my avatar is wholly inappropriate for this thread.

I think this is my favourite ever post on RR.

[belgarion]

Bristow you arse!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/38139647

'Former darts world champion Eric Bristow has drawn condemnation on social media
for suggesting football abuse victims are not "proper men".'

[cashead]

Chelsea's now right in the middle of it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... use-claim/

[morepork]

I realize my avatar is wholly inappropriate for this thread.

I think this is my favourite ever post on RR.

Jesus, I nearly blew snot out my nose trying not to laugh.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Chelsea's now right in the middle of it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... use-claim/

I expect a number of rugby clubs will be pretty soon embroiled in a similar scandal - albeit probably without hefty pay offs.

[onlynameleft]

Our club has suddenly decided that having 61 coaches who have never had a DBS is unacceptable because there is likely to be increased scrutiny of child coaching. As someone who has been crying out for us to sort out our safeguarding and insist everyone has a DBS for years I'm saddened that it has taken something like this for us to wake up but at least there's a positive that we might now do something.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Our club has suddenly decided that having 61 coaches who have never had a DBS is unacceptable because there is likely to be increased scrutiny of child coaching. As someone who has been crying out for us to sort out our safeguarding and insist everyone has a DBS for years I'm saddened that it has taken something like this for us to wake up but at least there's a positive that we might now do something.

Jesus, that's pretty bad. I suspect however that it's not unusual.

Really the RFU (and IRFU and others) should set up similar helpine but it's a very hard thing for a governing body to decide to invite that sortof attention but they should.