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Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:40 am
by Puja
Just rewatched the game from Saturday and received my usual set of corrections to my perceptions of player performances after watching in a less heightened emotional state (Lawes significantly worse than first thought, Youngs significantly better, May even better than I thought, Yarde even worse, etc). However one thing which caught my eye was confirmation of my impression that Nathan Hughes was constantly walking around the pitch. So, I rewound to where he came on in the 53rd minute and started just watching him alone.

In the 30 minutes that he was on the pitch (including time after the 80 on our last attack), Hughes attended just five rucks in both attack and defence. I say attended because for four of them he ambled up and leaned on the side after the ball had been won. The fifth was where the ruck formed in front of him and he had an unsuccessful go at the ball.

When he did not directly have the ball in his hands, he only went above a slow jog once (and that was the charge down that saw him unfairly penalised). This was egregious enough in defence and was a significant factor in both SA tries, as his failure to get across with any speed left us short on the blind side. However, in attack, he also showed very little interest in putting effort in.

This was the worst of it:


England turn over the ball about 55m out through Mike Brown. Hughes is standing 3 men out, having made absolutely no effort to get anywhere near the ruck.

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The ball is spread wide to Daly. Note that Hughes has moved a grand total of 3m and appears to have little to no interest in getting back into the game.

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Daly makes ground and a ruck is set up on the halfway. Hughes again has no interest in going anywhere near it. The ball comes quickly and Farrell runs a close line through a gaping hole in the SA defence. I've noted a few key players down on the screenshot and their relative positions. Closest to Farrell is Nathan Hughes, who is pretty much on his shoulder when he receives the ball.

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In the space of 3 seconds, Hughes has gone from being the closest player to the ball carrier to being the fifth closest and dropping. He makes literally no effort to accelerate and support the break. He's been overtaken by Ford and Care (understandable - they're backs), Billy V (disappointing - he should be looking to compete with Billy) and Marler (fucking outrageous), all of whom were a significant distance further away. But wait, it gets worse.

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Farrell slips the ball to Ford who runs into the 22 and ends up chipping and chasing. At this point, Hughes is now over 20m away from the play, unlike BillyV who is one of the main chasers. He still has not gone above a slow jog. But wait, it gets even worse.

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What are you doing there Nathan? South Africa have recovered the chip through and Ford, Care and Billy V secure the ruck while Marler and George, two front row, take up defensive guard positions. Hughes however is in no-man's land, wandering blithely up the centre of the pitch and looking like he's hoping someone else might form a defensive line which he might tag onto the end of. He's achieving absolutely f-all there. And to add insult to further insult, he's now been caught up by Dan Cole, who is a) a tighthead and b) shagged out from having played 69 minutes. Can it get worse?

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Yep, apparently it can. It shows up better in the video and was hard to get a good screenshot of, but that's Dan Cole, the aforementioned knackered tighthead who is leading the chargedown attempt, while recent substitute back row Hughes gently wanders forward, again achieving sweet f-all.

I am astounded that such a performance is being rewarded with a starting role this weekend. If I were Tom Media Wood, I'd be fuming that Eddie had told me to improve my workrate and then dropped me for that clown. I'm hoping someone has given Hughes a phenomenal rocket and he's promised to do better next time, cause that 30 minutes was just plain unacceptable of anybody at any level, and I say that as an arch work avoider on the pitch myself.

Puja

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:02 am
by Rich
Nathan Hughes is an absolute god of a rugby player

Jones needs to play him at No 8

Move Billy the Blindside to his natural No6 shirt and find an openside replacement to stop-gap Haskell

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:23 am
by Lizard
Gee. You've got a workshy foreign mercenary in your side. That must be a shock. (See Caucaunibuca, R. sub-topic Club Career, France)

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:16 am
by Mikey Brown
Rich wrote:Nathan Hughes is an absolute god of a rugby player

Jones needs to play him at No 8

Move Billy the Blindside to his natural No6 shirt and find an openside replacement to stop-gap Haskell
Will the number on his back fix the above things?

I must say the one thing I've found missing in that rugby dump/rugby world guy's analysis is expletives in the annotations. Good work.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:35 am
by Mellsblue
Yeh, that's appalling. I thought his laziness for SA's second try was bad but this example is world class.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:01 am
by Beasties
And there was me thinking I must've got it wrong when I posted about Hughes after the match. Funnily enough, when I watched the match back again I thought I'd been a smidgeon harsh on him. But not by much.

It still baffles me how much he looked like he didn't want to be there though. He was barely even walking at some points. It's as if he's got some sort of personal issue going on.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:07 am
by Mellsblue
The Times have him starting at 7........

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:21 am
by Doorzetbornandbred
Mellsblue wrote:Yeh, that's appalling. I thought his laziness for SA's second try was bad but this example is world class.
Little Ed had said he wants world class players so theres one of them sorted then...

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:24 am
by Scrumhead
Wow - that's pretty damning ... it looks like he barely moves from phase to phase.

At least Harrison's headless chicken routine requires effort.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:49 am
by Mikey Brown
This seemed like the perfect chance to see if Harrison can claw something back. Shame.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:28 am
by Oakboy
All I'd say is that Hughes won't last 5 minutes if Eddie asseses his performance as lazy. Based on the analysis above, I'm amazed that he is rumoured to be starting at 7 in the next match. Something does not add up.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:55 am
by fivepointer
He's a lazy sod. That much is obvious when you watch Wasps play. He's not going to do much grafting, covering, ruck clearing and challenging over the ball. That's just not his game.

Mind you, Puja's analysis (good work that) really does how just how lazy he is.

I suppose it was his first game, in a new side. Maybe he wasn't sure what he should be doing, though you'd expect an international player to at least break into a brisk run from time to time.

We'll see. He's going to play on Saturday and I'd be astonished if he wasn't told to up his workrate. As a flanker, though? I really don't see him as anything other than a number 8.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:05 am
by Puja
fivepointer wrote:He's a lazy sod. That much is obvious when you watch Wasps play. He's not going to do much grafting, covering, ruck clearing and challenging over the ball. That's just not his game.

Mind you, Puja's analysis (good work that) really does how just how lazy he is.

I suppose it was his first game, in a new side. Maybe he wasn't sure what he should be doing, though you'd expect an international player to at least break into a brisk run from time to time.

We'll see. He's going to play on Saturday and I'd be astonished if he wasn't told to up his workrate. As a flanker, though? I really don't see him as anything other than a number 8.
See, I always knew he was a bit workshy, but I put that down to him being a gloryhunter - evading rucks so he'll be in position for the nice camera-friendly charge. But I just don't fathom why one wouldn't chase after a clean break at top speed. That's not being a team player; that's classic gloryhunting. I just don't even get what's going through his head.

Puja

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:07 am
by Mellsblue
Was it caused by a sudden, burning realisation that he's not English and that he doesn't give a shit.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:24 am
by Mikey Brown
Mellsblue wrote:Was it caused by a sudden, burning realisation that he's not English and that he doesn't give a shit.
Ha. That would actually be fantastic. I'd respect him an awful lot for saying "Sorry, fancied the cash but it's just not me".

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:35 am
by twitchy
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Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:41 am
by Mellsblue
twitchy wrote:Image
A bit OTT. I'm sure everyone is more than happy for him to ply his trade with Wasps. It's just that if you play for England you really should be English. Otherwise international rugby just becomes a supercharged club game. Further to that, the Twickers cognoscenti are more likely to use shotguns and hounds to chase away the outsider.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:42 am
by Digby
Looked okay in a couple of mauls, and part of strong defensive effort on our line. I'm not normally too worried about a player taking a few games to find out at what pace they should play in a test match, and really a player on debut not getting up to speed isn't unusual or anything to worry about. Hughes is working much harder this season than last when a lot of people were ignoring his work rate, whether he can improve enough is yet to be decided.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:51 am
by Mellsblue
If they take a few games to realise the pace of test rugby is above a slow jog I'd be worried.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:58 am
by Bloggs
You are Charlie Morgan and I claim my £5! Great work Puja

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:59 am
by Digby
Two obvious traps, not deciding where to get involved and just wandering slowly around (things we often see more in league converts like Burgess and Robinson when they start out), or running around like a headless chicken making little impact as the effort's there but in the wrong place.

If he can't get up to speed he'll be out, but the basic talent looks to be in place.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:22 am
by jngf
Eddy's view of the role of openside flanker does baffle me. He seems hell bent on finding the biggest beast he can to play 7, and redefining and de-skilling the role come hell or high water. Also I don't quite buy the argument that there's no good fetching opensides to pick from the Premiership at the mo. I would have any of Kvesic, Evans, Seymour, Saull, Wallace over Haskell, let alone Nathan Hughes in the blink of an eye. This is my only criticism of Jones, as he's winning us matches and is a quantum leap ahead forward from Burt and Co. - I just think so far he's convinced himself England back row forwards aren't capable any subtlety, pace or finesse so let's just go for the lowest common denominator of biggest is best!

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:35 am
by Oakboy
jngf wrote:Eddy's view of the role of openside flanker does baffle me. He seems hell bent on finding the biggest beast he can to play 7, and redefining and de-skilling the role come hell or high water. Also I don't quite buy the argument that there's no good fetching opensides to pick from the Premiership at the mo. I would have any of Kvesic, Evans, Seymour, Saull, Wallace over Haskell, let alone Nathan Hughes in the blink of an eye. This is my only criticism of Jones, as he's winning us matches and is a quantum leap ahead forward from Burt and Co. - I just think so far he's convinced himself England back row forwards aren't capable any subtlety, pace or finesse so let's just go for the lowest common denominator of biggest is best!
Or, with a degree of expertise, Eddie is making the best of what he's got. I don't think there is any mileage in isolationist selection in the modern game (even if there ever was). Eddie is picking a team unit every time to do a job. I dislike 3,4 or 5 individuals in some of his selections but I can't argue with his results. If any of your list could improve the team unit they would be in.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:50 am
by Mikey Brown
Andy Saull huh? All that athleticism and opensideyness would surely take us to a new level.

Re: Nathan Hughes

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:52 am
by jngf
Mikey Brown wrote:Andy Saull huh? All that athleticism and opensideyness would surely take us to a new level.
as would Haskell and Nathan Hughes?