RugbyRebels

What's the general consensus on here about the EU treatment of Greece, I wonder? Has the German iron fist smashed Greece, and impoverished and humiliated its people? Should their debts have been written off the way Germany's were after WWII? & has Tsipras simply sold out to the bankers?

Personally I was always much more interested in their comedies...

I've never really understood the whole post-war debt thing. I thought that the side effect of winning was that was all nixed. Doesn't seem much point if that doesn't even happen.

Any debt write-off in post-war Germany was fairly insignificant in comparison with the reparations that the Allies demanded, including payments of $10billion, dismantling of half their industrial capacity, seizure of Imtellectual property, and a $2.5billion annual charge for the costs of being occupied.

I don't think Greece would be all that keen on the price at modern day rates.

Stones of granite wrote:Any debt write-off in post-war Germany was fairly insignificant in comparison with the reparations that the Allies demanded, including payments of $10billion, dismantling of half their industrial capacity, seizure of Imtellectual property, and a $2.5billion annual charge for the costs of being occupied.

I don't think Greece would be all that keen on the price at modern day rates.

How does that compare with the reparations the US demanded from their own Allies...?.

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:Any debt write-off in post-war Germany was fairly insignificant in comparison with the reparations that the Allies demanded, including payments of $10billion, dismantling of half their industrial capacity, seizure of Imtellectual property, and a $2.5billion annual charge for the costs of being occupied.

I don't think Greece would be all that keen on the price at modern day rates.

How does that compare with the reparations the US demanded from their own Allies...?.

I had no idea that they had.

The reparations that Germmay had to pay, as well as the occupation expenses fees, weren't just demanded by the USA, but all the allies.

Stones of granite wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:Any debt write-off in post-war Germany was fairly insignificant in comparison with the reparations that the Allies demanded, including payments of $10billion, dismantling of half their industrial capacity, seizure of Imtellectual property, and a $2.5billion annual charge for the costs of being occupied.

I don't think Greece would be all that keen on the price at modern day rates.

How does that compare with the reparations the US demanded from their own Allies...?.

I had no idea that they had.

The reparations that Germmay had to pay, as well as the occupation expenses fees, weren't just demanded by the USA, but all the allies.

Not reparations,..the US debt.

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

kk67 wrote:
How does that compare with the reparations the US demanded from their own Allies...?.

I had no idea that they had.

The reparations that Germmay had to pay, as well as the occupation expenses fees, weren't just demanded by the USA, but all the allies.

Not reparations,..the US debt.

Well, repayment of debt is normally expected. Alongside something like $3b of emergency post-war loans that were repayed, the US actually donated $2.7billion to the UK as part of the Marshall Plan. In typical British fashion we pissed it all away instead of rebuilding our industrial base like the Germans did with their $1.7billion.

Yes, that's right, the U.K. received more from the Marshall Plan than any other country, and spent it least wisely.

Stones of granite wrote: Yes, that's right, the U.K. received more from the Marshall Plan than any other country, and spent it least wisely.

...and the US industrialist/government made money from the Nazi war machine.

Stones of granite wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:Any debt write-off in post-war Germany was fairly insignificant in comparison with the reparations that the Allies demanded, including payments of $10billion, dismantling of half their industrial capacity, seizure of Imtellectual property, and a $2.5billion annual charge for the costs of being occupied.

I don't think Greece would be all that keen on the price at modern day rates.

How does that compare with the reparations the US demanded from their own Allies...?.

I had no idea that they had.

The reparations that Germmay had to pay, as well as the occupation expenses fees, weren't just demanded by the USA, but all the allies.

What about the Marshall Plan? I thought West Germany was one of the major recipients of US aid after WWII. Of course, we know it was all basically a bribe to keep communists (including anti-fascists) out of Western European politicis, and that it also served the best interests of American business in the long term. In fact, the US intervened in both Italy and Greece on the side of the neo-fascists. This helped bring down the left in Greece, which had resisted the Nazis so courageously, allowing the fascists to prevail and institute a brutal regime - with the CIA's full and ongoing co-operation, needless to add.

rowan wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

kk67 wrote:
How does that compare with the reparations the US demanded from their own Allies...?.

I had no idea that they had.

The reparations that Germmay had to pay, as well as the occupation expenses fees, weren't just demanded by the USA, but all the allies.

What about the Marshall Plan? I thought West Germany was one of the major recipients of US aid after WWII. Of course, we know it was all basically a bribe to keep communists (including anti-fascists) out of Western European politicis, and that it also served the best interests of American business in the long term. In fact, the US intervened in both Italy and Greece on the side of the neo-fascists. This helped bring down the left in Greece, which had resisted the Nazis so courageously, allowing the fascists to prevail and institute a brutal regime - with the CIA's full and ongoing co-operation, needless to add.

The Marshall Plan was conceived several years after the end of the war when the US realised that the best way to a prosperous and hence stable Europe was to give a leg up on financing reconstruction. The U.K. was the biggest beneficiary with West Germany second, but most European countries affected by the war got some. As stated, West Germany used it to rebuild their industrial base that had been been ripped out by the Allies (including Russia), while Britain's post-war socialist Government pissed it all up against the wall. By that point they had already spent the $3billiom emergency loans from the US, so it probably prevented collapse of the country.

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: Yes, that's right, the U.K. received more from the Marshall Plan than any other country, and spent it least wisely.

...and the US industrialist/government made money from the Nazi war machine.

Of course. US baaaaaad. I forgot.

Stones of granite wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: Yes, that's right, the U.K. received more from the Marshall Plan than any other country, and spent it least wisely.

...and the US industrialist/government made money from the Nazi war machine.

Of course. US baaaaaad. I forgot.

Well,....war profiteering is pretty bad. It's like a Jewish company providing all the US flags for the Palestinians to burn.