Our society is broken

[Zhivago]

I was watching the opening ceremony of the London 2012 Olympics. It seems so long ago. Society seems completely broken now compared to then, it's surreal...

We have extremists killing innocents... Islamic terrorism, far right terror... an increasingly dominant oligarchy, widening gulf between rich and poor (perhaps even underlying major tragedies), nationalist vs internationalist divide...

All combined gives me simply a feeling of despair at the direction we are going.

[Digby]

Mostly things are exactly the same from 2012 to now, and most people are decent most of the time.

Our society can be made better perhaps, but we're far too strong to be anywhere near broken.

[jared_7]

The UK has definitely had a hard time of it. A country seemingly more divided over politics, a pretty frequent run of terror attacks and the Greenfell tragedy, all on top of the slowest wage growth in the OECD (behind Greece) and inflation starting to bite.

You would hope the terrorism is just an unfortunate bad patch rather than calling it part of a "broken society".

But have to admit, I'm looking forward to getting out at the end of summer.

[jared_7]

At least the weather is respectable...

[Sandydragon]

I was watching the opening ceremony of the London 2012 Olympics. It seems so long ago. Society seems completely broken now compared to then, it's surreal...

We have extremists killing innocents... Islamic terrorism, far right terror... an increasingly dominant oligarchy, widening gulf between rich and poor (perhaps even underlying major tragedies), nationalist vs internationalist divide...

All combined gives me simply a feeling of despair at the direction we are going.

I'm not sure that the terrorism angle is hugely relevant compared to 2012. The threat has evolved which makes it harder to prevent. Consider the London bombings in 2005, that was the typeof threat that the security services have stepped up to mostly prevent, the lone wolf attacks are far more difficult and signal a tactical change by the terrorists. I don't think the underlying causes have changed that much, other than a new player on the scene who is providing inspiration and guidance to would be attackers. There was also a massive security operation around the Olympics that isn't sustainable in the routine.

Nationalist vs internationalist is an interesting one. The referendum highlighted a real split, and quite a passionate one for many people. Has that changed our political map for good? Perhaps. The last GE showed that the younger vote could actually be bothered, but was that as a follow up for the referendum or as a result of other issues I'm not sure. I was reading something in the Times today about the collapse of the UKIP vote where the voters who were expected to vote Conservative to ensure a hard Brexit actually went back to traditional tribal loyalties, i.e. Labour, almost as if Brexit were now a done deal so back to business as usual.

On a wider scale, I think the current debate over international vs national is just the latest morphing of the historic change vs stability debate. When ever there is a significant change, some people benefit and others get left behind (for whatever reason). Some people have done well out of internationalism, whereas others have seen their livlihoods lost.

[Donny osmond]

This isnt aimed at anyone in particular.

What I dont get is that plenty of people who think uk society is broken get their opinion on that from media accounts of how broken everything is... but then are immediately willing to denounce media lies when it comes to debating the issues of the day.

Surely if our hysterical media lies about stuff (which I absolutely accept) then we have to be cynical about eveything it says, including reports on how broken society is?

Its been said many times, but if you want to judge how a society is doing, dont look at the disasters, look at the responses to disaster. London and Manchester have absolutely covered themselves in glory these last few months by the amazing responses of ordinary folk to tragic situations... thats the measure of our societies right now, a bottomless pit of strength, tolerance, charity and love.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[WaspInWales]

This isnt aimed at anyone in particular.

What I dont get is that plenty of people who think uk society is broken get their opinion on that from media accounts of how broken everything is... but then are immediately willing to denounce media lies when it comes to debating the issues of the day.

Surely if our hysterical media lies about stuff (which I absolutely accept) then we have to be cynical about eveything it says, including reports on how broken society is?

Its been said many times, but if you want to judge how a society is doing, dont look at the disasters, look at the responses to disaster. London and Manchester have absolutely covered themselves in glory these last few months by the amazing responses of ordinary folk to tragic situations... thats the measure of our societies right now, a bottomless pit of strength, tolerance, charity and love.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Well said Donny.

[belgarion]

This isnt aimed at anyone in particular.

What I dont get is that plenty of people who think uk society is broken get their opinion on that from media accounts of how broken everything is... but then are immediately willing to denounce media lies when it comes to debating the issues of the day.

Surely if our hysterical media lies about stuff (which I absolutely accept) then we have to be cynical about eveything it says, including reports on how broken society is?

Its been said many times, but if you want to judge how a society is doing, dont look at the disasters, look at the responses to disaster. London and Manchester have absolutely covered themselves in glory these last few months by the amazing responses of ordinary folk to tragic situations... thats the measure of our societies right now, a bottomless pit of strength, tolerance, charity and love.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Well said Donny.

+1

[Sandydragon]

This isnt aimed at anyone in particular.

What I dont get is that plenty of people who think uk society is broken get their opinion on that from media accounts of how broken everything is... but then are immediately willing to denounce media lies when it comes to debating the issues of the day.

Surely if our hysterical media lies about stuff (which I absolutely accept) then we have to be cynical about eveything it says, including reports on how broken society is?

Its been said many times, but if you want to judge how a society is doing, dont look at the disasters, look at the responses to disaster. London and Manchester have absolutely covered themselves in glory these last few months by the amazing responses of ordinary folk to tragic situations... thats the measure of our societies right now, a bottomless pit of strength, tolerance, charity and love.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Spot on.

AS an aside, I spend a fair chunk of Saturday at a local community fete. It wont make the national news, but it was a great example of local people pulling together to make something happen. There are examples of this community spirit across the country and whilst they wont make the front pages, they are an example that society isn't broken, rather than some individual within it aren't on the same page.

[AL.]

This isnt aimed at anyone in particular.

What I dont get is that plenty of people who think uk society is broken get their opinion on that from media accounts of how broken everything is... but then are immediately willing to denounce media lies when it comes to debating the issues of the day.

Surely if our hysterical media lies about stuff (which I absolutely accept) then we have to be cynical about eveything it says, including reports on how broken society is?

Its been said many times, but if you want to judge how a society is doing, dont look at the disasters, look at the responses to disaster. London and Manchester have absolutely covered themselves in glory these last few months by the amazing responses of ordinary folk to tragic situations... thats the measure of our societies right now, a bottomless pit of strength, tolerance, charity and love.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

I think it depends where you live as to how fubar things seem and if that place gets on the news or is deemed to be relevant to sell-able news.

Ive lived in Edinburgh, Prestwick, Essex villages, Nottingham, London and Suffolk villages. When in London everything seemed to be a trauma for everyone, in Suffolk now, not at all. Hopefully it will pass but there does seem to be a bit of an "everyone's a victim" vibe about the country at the moment that I dont remember in my younger years (I'm 40).

The hyperbolic press have a lot to answer for......

[kk67]

I wouldn't go as far as to say society was broken but new technologies have created a seismic shift in how politics operates. It is now a lot easier and a lot quicker to identify corporate and governmental corruption. Sadly, identifying and recording evidence of corruption is not the same as finding any sort of political desire to do something about it.
This is not helped by MP's having non-executive seats on the boards of the same organisations that are thoroughly corrupt.
I know of one female MP getting £50k pa for doing one days work a month. Footballers get paid more, but this is an elected member of parliament. That is a bribe, not a salary. Similarly the corporate donors to political parties are buying influence and immunity.

[Sandydragon]

I wouldn't go as far as to say society was broken but new technologies have created a seismic shift in how politics operates. It is now a lot easier and a lot quicker to identify corporate and governmental corruption. Sadly, identifying and recording evidence of corruption is not the same as finding any sort of political desire to do something about it.
This is not helped by MP's having non-executive seats on the boards of the same organisations that are thoroughly corrupt.
I know of one female MP getting £50k pa for doing one days work a month. Footballers get paid more, but this is an elected member of parliament. That is a bribe, not a salary. Similarly the corporate donors to political parties are buying influence and immunity.

Or its much easier to accuse people and organisation of corruption and for the rumour to spread and be accepted.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours." - Margaret Thatcher 1987.

"... there are the things you do because it’s your passion. The things that fire you up in the morning, that drive you, that you truly believe will make a real difference to the country you love. And my great passion is building the Big Society. ... It’s an idea I spoke about when I ran for the leadership of the Conservative party, when I was elected, throughout all the years in opposition, during the election campaign and when I stood on the steps of Downing Street." - David Cameron 2010

I don't think many of us have the first fecking clue what 'society' is. One thing I do know is that too many feckless twats have chosen to rely on society as a life-style choice, that there is insufficient resource, patience or compassion left over to help and defend those desperate few who have real and genuine need. If it exists, its broken right enough.

[kk67]

It's safe to say that if you live in a country pile in the Cotswolds at the weekend and a flat in Westminster/Islington/Chelsea during the week, your idea of what constitutes society is going to be very different.
There's that bit in 'Yes, Minister' where they are driving on the motorway and the discussion turns to why the M4 and the M40 are the best roads in the UK.
Harrow/Eton/Cotswolds.

[BBD]

Broken? perhaps implies that its beyond repair which I don't think is true, but it will be a long painful journey to "fix" it
But is it damaged? absolutely yes and in so many different ways

Politics - Snouts in the trough at local, national and world levels. Money is the master and the way the media portray things anything of substance is overwhelmed by easy soundbites and personal attacks. Petty sniping and point scoring rather than reasoned debate

Media - Tabloidism across the board, the cult of celebrity and gossip being raised in profile at the expense of substance and an overwhelming bias

Sport - Too much money to over hyped prima donnas whilst the grass roots have to struggle and scrimp, not enough investment in our youth facilities

Education - Fact learning/cramming at the expense of basic literacy and numeracy. Discipline so undermined that kids who get left behind are on the scrap heap at 16

Healthcare - An underfunded and under supported NHS are on a hiding to nothing, hit with targets and then given no support to be able to meet them. How the healthcare professionals in hospitals and in our community keep getting up and going into work never ceases to amaze me

Public Services - Similar story, under resourced and blamed for everything

Financial Services - time after time decisions are made that show a corrupt and avaricious beast playing with sums of money that none of us are ever likely to come into contact with

Retail - Customer Service is the sole preserve of the small business, Big business squeezes out the little man and squeezes the supplier so that prices can be cut further to keep squeezing, great in the short term until there is no other game in town and our high streets are dead

Religion - Its become the scapegoat as non believer are always happy to give it a sneer and a kicking. Fundamentalism, when people use religion or ideology of any kind to justify horrific acts has become a cancer to our society

Entitlement - Compensation culture & the cult of "me,me,me" are making us inward looking and desperate, like those struggling for the last lifejacket on the sinking ship


...and now, here's Carol with the weather

[SerjeantWildgoose]

... It's shit!

[BBD]

I still would

[SerjeantWildgoose]

... if only you still could.

[BBD]

Carol has a warm front coming in that would ensure that I maintained it throughout the rest of the weekend

[Sandydragon]

Broken? perhaps implies that its beyond repair which I don't think is true, but it will be a long painful journey to "fix" it
But is it damaged? absolutely yes and in so many different ways

Politics - Snouts in the trough at local, national and world levels. Money is the master and the way the media portray things anything of substance is overwhelmed by easy soundbites and personal attacks. Petty sniping and point scoring rather than reasoned debate

Media - Tabloidism across the board, the cult of celebrity and gossip being raised in profile at the expense of substance and an overwhelming bias

Sport - Too much money to over hyped prima donnas whilst the grass roots have to struggle and scrimp, not enough investment in our youth facilities

Education - Fact learning/cramming at the expense of basic literacy and numeracy. Discipline so undermined that kids who get left behind are on the scrap heap at 16

Healthcare - An underfunded and under supported NHS are on a hiding to nothing, hit with targets and then given no support to be able to meet them. How the healthcare professionals in hospitals and in our community keep getting up and going into work never ceases to amaze me

Public Services - Similar story, under resourced and blamed for everything

Financial Services - time after time decisions are made that show a corrupt and avaricious beast playing with sums of money that none of us are ever likely to come into contact with

Retail - Customer Service is the sole preserve of the small business, Big business squeezes out the little man and squeezes the supplier so that prices can be cut further to keep squeezing, great in the short term until there is no other game in town and our high streets are dead

Religion - Its become the scapegoat as non believer are always happy to give it a sneer and a kicking. Fundamentalism, when people use religion or ideology of any kind to justify horrific acts has become a cancer to our society

Entitlement - Compensation culture & the cult of "me,me,me" are making us inward looking and desperate, like those struggling for the last lifejacket on the sinking ship


...and now, here's Carol with the weather

My wife is about to leave her teaching job at the end of this year. She has had enough as a result of kids assaulting the teachers and sod all happening as a result. One of her colleagues was sprayed in the face with deodorant by a kid who laughed whilst doing, only to be told by senior management that he (the teacher) needed to build better relationships with the children.

In that school, the senior management want to treat children as 'young adults who are engaged in their own learning' which is absolutely fine for the 20% who really want to be there, but shyte for everyone as the 30% who don't, added to the next group who are easily led, make life hell for everyone. This is an inner city school and bright kids are being held back by clownish ideology and poor leadership.

[Banquo]

Broken? perhaps implies that its beyond repair which I don't think is true, but it will be a long painful journey to "fix" it
But is it damaged? absolutely yes and in so many different ways

Politics - Snouts in the trough at local, national and world levels. Money is the master and the way the media portray things anything of substance is overwhelmed by easy soundbites and personal attacks. Petty sniping and point scoring rather than reasoned debate

Media - Tabloidism across the board, the cult of celebrity and gossip being raised in profile at the expense of substance and an overwhelming bias

Sport - Too much money to over hyped prima donnas whilst the grass roots have to struggle and scrimp, not enough investment in our youth facilities

Education - Fact learning/cramming at the expense of basic literacy and numeracy. Discipline so undermined that kids who get left behind are on the scrap heap at 16

Healthcare - An underfunded and under supported NHS are on a hiding to nothing, hit with targets and then given no support to be able to meet them. How the healthcare professionals in hospitals and in our community keep getting up and going into work never ceases to amaze me

Public Services - Similar story, under resourced and blamed for everything

Financial Services - time after time decisions are made that show a corrupt and avaricious beast playing with sums of money that none of us are ever likely to come into contact with

Retail - Customer Service is the sole preserve of the small business, Big business squeezes out the little man and squeezes the supplier so that prices can be cut further to keep squeezing, great in the short term until there is no other game in town and our high streets are dead

Religion - Its become the scapegoat as non believer are always happy to give it a sneer and a kicking. Fundamentalism, when people use religion or ideology of any kind to justify horrific acts has become a cancer to our society

Entitlement - Compensation culture & the cult of "me,me,me" are making us inward looking and desperate, like those struggling for the last lifejacket on the sinking ship


...and now, here's Carol with the weather

My wife is about to leave her teaching job at the end of this year. She has had enough as a result of kids assaulting the teachers and sod all happening as a result. One of her colleagues was sprayed in the face with deodorant by a kid who laughed whilst doing, only to be told by senior management that he (the teacher) needed to build better relationships with the children.

In that school, the senior management want to treat children as 'young adults who are engaged in their own learning' which is absolutely fine for the 20% who really want to be there, but shyte for everyone as the 30% who don't, added to the next group who are easily led, make life hell for everyone. This is an inner city school and bright kids are being held back by clownish ideology and poor leadership.

..my wife is also a teacher, and chronic parenting plays a big part in the issues she sees. Ideology and poor leadership are not the key issues for her and the school, so guess its situational; entitlement is also an issue, with parents and kids.

[Stones of granite]

Broken? perhaps implies that its beyond repair which I don't think is true, but it will be a long painful journey to "fix" it
But is it damaged? absolutely yes and in so many different ways

Politics - Snouts in the trough at local, national and world levels. Money is the master and the way the media portray things anything of substance is overwhelmed by easy soundbites and personal attacks. Petty sniping and point scoring rather than reasoned debate

Media - Tabloidism across the board, the cult of celebrity and gossip being raised in profile at the expense of substance and an overwhelming bias

Sport - Too much money to over hyped prima donnas whilst the grass roots have to struggle and scrimp, not enough investment in our youth facilities

Education - Fact learning/cramming at the expense of basic literacy and numeracy. Discipline so undermined that kids who get left behind are on the scrap heap at 16

Healthcare - An underfunded and under supported NHS are on a hiding to nothing, hit with targets and then given no support to be able to meet them. How the healthcare professionals in hospitals and in our community keep getting up and going into work never ceases to amaze me

Public Services - Similar story, under resourced and blamed for everything

Financial Services - time after time decisions are made that show a corrupt and avaricious beast playing with sums of money that none of us are ever likely to come into contact with

Retail - Customer Service is the sole preserve of the small business, Big business squeezes out the little man and squeezes the supplier so that prices can be cut further to keep squeezing, great in the short term until there is no other game in town and our high streets are dead

Religion - Its become the scapegoat as non believer are always happy to give it a sneer and a kicking. Fundamentalism, when people use religion or ideology of any kind to justify horrific acts has become a cancer to our society

Entitlement - Compensation culture & the cult of "me,me,me" are making us inward looking and desperate, like those struggling for the last lifejacket on the sinking ship


...and now, here's Carol with the weather

...and all of that just in the 5 short years since the London Olympics. I blame global warming.

[Sandydragon]

Broken? perhaps implies that its beyond repair which I don't think is true, but it will be a long painful journey to "fix" it
But is it damaged? absolutely yes and in so many different ways

Politics - Snouts in the trough at local, national and world levels. Money is the master and the way the media portray things anything of substance is overwhelmed by easy soundbites and personal attacks. Petty sniping and point scoring rather than reasoned debate

Media - Tabloidism across the board, the cult of celebrity and gossip being raised in profile at the expense of substance and an overwhelming bias

Sport - Too much money to over hyped prima donnas whilst the grass roots have to struggle and scrimp, not enough investment in our youth facilities

Education - Fact learning/cramming at the expense of basic literacy and numeracy. Discipline so undermined that kids who get left behind are on the scrap heap at 16

Healthcare - An underfunded and under supported NHS are on a hiding to nothing, hit with targets and then given no support to be able to meet them. How the healthcare professionals in hospitals and in our community keep getting up and going into work never ceases to amaze me

Public Services - Similar story, under resourced and blamed for everything

Financial Services - time after time decisions are made that show a corrupt and avaricious beast playing with sums of money that none of us are ever likely to come into contact with

Retail - Customer Service is the sole preserve of the small business, Big business squeezes out the little man and squeezes the supplier so that prices can be cut further to keep squeezing, great in the short term until there is no other game in town and our high streets are dead

Religion - Its become the scapegoat as non believer are always happy to give it a sneer and a kicking. Fundamentalism, when people use religion or ideology of any kind to justify horrific acts has become a cancer to our society

Entitlement - Compensation culture & the cult of "me,me,me" are making us inward looking and desperate, like those struggling for the last lifejacket on the sinking ship


...and now, here's Carol with the weather

My wife is about to leave her teaching job at the end of this year. She has had enough as a result of kids assaulting the teachers and sod all happening as a result. One of her colleagues was sprayed in the face with deodorant by a kid who laughed whilst doing, only to be told by senior management that he (the teacher) needed to build better relationships with the children.

In that school, the senior management want to treat children as 'young adults who are engaged in their own learning' which is absolutely fine for the 20% who really want to be there, but shyte for everyone as the 30% who don't, added to the next group who are easily led, make life hell for everyone. This is an inner city school and bright kids are being held back by clownish ideology and poor leadership.

..my wife is also a teacher, and chronic parenting plays a big part in the issues she sees. Ideology and poor leadership are not the key issues for her and the school, so guess its situational; entitlement is also an issue, with parents and kids.

This is the danger in making sweeping assumptions. There are schools in poor areas which do alright, mostly as a result of good leadership and management. But its also a fact that any school will struggle where parents do not give a toss.

At a previous school my missus worked at, a public school, entitlement was a real challenge.

[BBD]

To be fair my whole post was full of sweeping evaluations and if anyone felt I was having a pop at them or their partners etc then I apologise

It is true that there is good in all aspects of the above headings of society, I think its also true that at the moment we are seeming to plunge ever deeper into the mire at the moment....maybe thats a reflection of the narrow stream of negativity that the media mine for rolling stories 24/7 rather than widespread evidence of society being broken, but I do look at the world my kids are growing up in and wonder what kind of legacy they will be inheriting

[Banquo]

To be fair my whole post was full of sweeping evaluations and if anyone felt I was having a pop at them or their partners etc then I apologise

It is true that there is good in all aspects of the above headings of society, I think its also true that at the moment we are seeming to plunge ever deeper into the mire at the moment....maybe thats a reflection of the narrow stream of negativity that the media mine for rolling stories 24/7 rather than widespread evidence of society being broken, but I do look at the world my kids are growing up in and wonder what kind of legacy they will be inheriting

I didn't think that at all tbh..and I agree with the sweepiness