RugbyRebels

Seems it's a done deal ...not a suprise but will give Gatland a potential headache for the World Cup but maybe there is opportunity to Welsh based players .

Major blow for the Ospreys. Bigger than Biggar IMO (see what I did there?).

Problem for Gatland's Law... will need to pick 4 from Faletau, Sanjay, Biggar, Webb and North. The first two are nailed on IMO, but the rest... who knows? We have a lot of good wingers now, could North be the one to lose out?

Or will they just fudge it?

Not a surprise. Still disappointing though. It wouldn’t be a surprise if other players follow them out the door given the Ospreys current issues.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Major blow for the Ospreys. Bigger than Biggar IMO (see what I did there?).

Problem for Gatland's Law... will need to pick 4 from Faletau, Sanjay, Biggar, Webb and North. The first two are nailed on IMO, but the rest... who knows? We have a lot of good wingers now, could North be the one to lose out?

Or will they just fudge it?

Next season 2018/19 it is down to 2 ..so maybe they will have to fudge or just select home based or exempt players .
As long as he us fit Falateu is in plus one other... it will be interesting for sure.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Major blow for the Ospreys. Bigger than Biggar IMO (see what I did there?).

Problem for Gatland's Law... will need to pick 4 from Faletau, Sanjay, Biggar, Webb and North. The first two are nailed on IMO, but the rest... who knows? We have a lot of good wingers now, could North be the one to lose out?

Or will they just fudge it?

Those are some of your top, top players. You are not the ABs. You cannot leave any of those guys out of the 23.

ALunpg wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Major blow for the Ospreys. Bigger than Biggar IMO (see what I did there?).

Problem for Gatland's Law... will need to pick 4 from Faletau, Sanjay, Biggar, Webb and North. The first two are nailed on IMO, but the rest... who knows? We have a lot of good wingers now, could North be the one to lose out?

Or will they just fudge it?

Next season 2018/19 it is down to 2 ..so maybe they will have to fudge or just select home based or exempt players .
As long as he us fit Falateu is in plus one other... it will be interesting for sure.

I think it's down to 2 for 2019/20, but we may well be in a post Gatland world by then anyway... new rules...

Having said that I think fudge is the most likely way forward.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Major blow for the Ospreys. Bigger than Biggar IMO (see what I did there?).

Problem for Gatland's Law... will need to pick 4 from Faletau, Sanjay, Biggar, Webb and North. The first two are nailed on IMO, but the rest... who knows? We have a lot of good wingers now, could North be the one to lose out?

Or will they just fudge it?

I don't know what strength you mean on the wing, we have the continually injured Eli Walker, Ashton Hewitt and Hallam Amos, then we have Fluffbert and James who are average then North and Steff Evans who are good enough for tests. Of course we have Keelan Giles but I don't think we're going to see him anytime soon the way the Os are playing.

Edit: Sorry that's a bit off topic.

Bad news regarding Webb, if Gareth Davies can get his game management sorted then I suspect Webb would fall foul of Gatland's Law, as it stands he is rightly our incumbent 9, tho 9 is a position where we do have good depth, the Scarlets have 2 good 9s, the Blues have 2 good 9s, the Os have 2 good 9s.

Numbers wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Major blow for the Ospreys. Bigger than Biggar IMO (see what I did there?).

Problem for Gatland's Law... will need to pick 4 from Faletau, Sanjay, Biggar, Webb and North. The first two are nailed on IMO, but the rest... who knows? We have a lot of good wingers now, could North be the one to lose out?

Or will they just fudge it?

I don't know what strength you mean on the wing, we have the continually injured Eli Walker, Ashton Hewitt and Hallam Amos, then we have Fluffbert and James who are average then North and Steff Evans who are good enough for tests. Of course we have Keelan Giles but I don't think we're going to see him anytime soon the way the Os are playing.

Edit: Sorry that's a bit off topic.

Bad news regarding Webb, if Gareth Davies can get his game management sorted then I suspect Webb would fall foul of Gatland's Law, as it stands he is rightly our incumbent 9, tho 9 is a position where we do have good depth, the Scarlets have 2 good 9s, the Blues have 2 good 9s, the Os have 2 good 9s.

I agree about Davies he has a occasional brain fart,but he is very good and is in fine firm .

It will leave Webb and others exposed for the World Cup although SOM corrected me in my misunderstanding, but each player is fully aware of the implications before they sign up.

As has been said, it may change in a few years post Gatland but if it does.. I like the idea of an exception if players have been capped over a limit or something similar.
I want as many Welsh players being available to play in Wales but if there is no money to keep them once they get an international pesence, then some fudge may be required to get this mechanism realistic.

ALunpg wrote:

Numbers wrote:I don't know what strength you mean on the wing, we have the continually injured Eli Walker, Ashton Hewitt and Hallam Amos, then we have Fluffbert and James who are average then North and Steff Evans who are good enough for tests. Of course we have Keelan Giles but I don't think we're going to see him anytime soon the way the Os are playing.

Edit: Sorry that's a bit off topic.

Bad news regarding Webb, if Gareth Davies can get his game management sorted then I suspect Webb would fall foul of Gatland's Law, as it stands he is rightly our incumbent 9, tho 9 is a position where we do have good depth, the Scarlets have 2 good 9s, the Blues have 2 good 9s, the Os have 2 good 9s.

I agree about Davies he has a occasional brain fart,but he is very good and is in fine firm .

It will leave Webb and others exposed for the World Cup although SOM corrected me in my misunderstanding, but each player is fully aware of the implications before they sign up.

As has been said, it may change in a few years post Gatland but if it does.. I like the idea of an exception if players have been capped over a limit or something similar.
I want as many Welsh players being available to play in Wales but if there is no money to keep them once they get an international pesence, then some fudge may be required to get this mechanism realistic.

By strength on the wing I'm thinking in addition to North we have Sanjay, Halfpenny, Amos, Steff Evans, Giles, Hewitt. (And at a push we have Dan Evans, Cuthbert and James)

Agreed that with the quality of Gareth Davies, Webb is putting himself at risk by leaving Wales.

Webb is 29 soon, last chance to gain a lot of money with a nice French retirement fund.
Good on him.
Davies is more than capable of stepping up, Tomas Williams has huge potential at the blues.
Until one or two of these "big players" are left out then Gatlands Law is pointless.


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ALunpg wrote:

Numbers wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Major blow for the Ospreys. Bigger than Biggar IMO (see what I did there?).

Problem for Gatland's Law... will need to pick 4 from Faletau, Sanjay, Biggar, Webb and North. The first two are nailed on IMO, but the rest... who knows? We have a lot of good wingers now, could North be the one to lose out?

Or will they just fudge it?

I don't know what strength you mean on the wing, we have the continually injured Eli Walker, Ashton Hewitt and Hallam Amos, then we have Fluffbert and James who are average then North and Steff Evans who are good enough for tests. Of course we have Keelan Giles but I don't think we're going to see him anytime soon the way the Os are playing.

Edit: Sorry that's a bit off topic.

Bad news regarding Webb, if Gareth Davies can get his game management sorted then I suspect Webb would fall foul of Gatland's Law, as it stands he is rightly our incumbent 9, tho 9 is a position where we do have good depth, the Scarlets have 2 good 9s, the Blues have 2 good 9s, the Os have 2 good 9s.

I agree about Davies he has a occasional brain fart,but he is very good and is in fine firm .

It will leave Webb and others exposed for the World Cup although SOM corrected me in my misunderstanding, but each player is fully aware of the implications before they sign up.

As has been said, it may change in a few years post Gatland but if it does.. I like the idea of an exception if players have been capped over a limit or something similar.
I want as many Welsh players being available to play in Wales but if there is no money to keep them once they get an international pesence, then some fudge may be required to get this mechanism realistic.

Would you believe it... a fudge is on its way:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41547139

But it does make some sense to have an exemption for no. of caps, or age.

Except that it makes the "law" meaningless for the stars... they'll always fudge it to get them in.

Yes it is ...see they read my post

It is the only sensible system in the position we are in. It will work ...but ... in my opinion the option of playing a home based against a away based player when all other is equal should always favour the home based.

In this case for example if Davies and Webb are determined equal then Davies should get the nod as should others in similar vane.

I don't think Webb will have enough caps to be captured if 50 is the limit to qualify as he only has about 30 plus say 8 this season if he is fit.

ALunpg wrote:Yes it is ...see they read my post

It is the only sensible system in the position we are in. It will work ...but ... in my opinion the option of playing a home based against a away based player when all other is equal should always favour the home based.

In this case for example if Davies and Webb are determined equal then Davies should get the nod as should others in similar vane.

I don't think Webb will have enough caps to be captured if 50 is the limit to qualify as he only has about 30 plus say 8 this season if he is fit.

If they can capture some of the others that leaves space for him though.

A fudge seems to make sense for you but defeats the point of having the policy. Your point about equal players is all well and good but there is never a decision that is completely 50-50. Even if it is just on a hunch, the coach will always want to pick one over another unless there is a firm rule in place.

Well it may be a combination of Aussie and present rules and including or excluding exemptions. The priority to home based players was said by Gatland previously, I just happen to support it.

But it could be all smoke and mirrors and press rumourville and nothing will change until after the world cup and a new coach. To add to it Toulon are reported to say they have given Webb full release so who knows.

ALunpg wrote:To add to it Toulon are reported to say they have given Webb full release so who knows.

I wouldn't believe a word of it, Halfpenny had a release clause too and boudjellal bitched constantly and eventually sacked him for it

Ross. S wrote:

ALunpg wrote:To add to it Toulon are reported to say they have given Webb full release so who knows.

I wouldn't believe a word of it, Halfpenny had a release clause too and boudjellal bitched constantly and eventually sacked him for it

Yep

So it's 60 caps and Webb will be unavailable to Wales for the term of his contract at Toulon, which includes the World Cup, brilliant.

Biggar needs to get 4 more caps this season to be eligible.

Moriarty will have to sign for a Welsh side at the end of the season to be eligible.

Interesting. Perhaps a bit clearer than the old system which seemed to be pretty flexible when the coaches wanted it to be. In time, I think this could work, but is perhaps a bit harsh for Webb who made an agreement to move before this came into force.

So this gives rich French and English clubs more incentive to snap up young/low capped Welsh players because they know they'll be available all season.....

What happens when a country decides to start snapping up young promising players? We won't/cant cap them and don't have the money to go up against rich clubs

Sandydragon wrote:Interesting. Perhaps a bit clearer than the old system which seemed to be pretty flexible when the coaches wanted it to be. In time, I think this could work, but is perhaps a bit harsh for Webb who made an agreement to move before this came into force.

Agreed, this is unfair to Webb - he's already signed a new contract under one set of rules, now the rules are totally different. This policy would best be introduced straight after the Summer tours - OR with exemption for those who've already signed new contracts.

For me, I'd prefer a similar rule but with age rather than no. of caps as the deciding factor (say 28 or over). And I think I'd still allow a wildcard or two...

Ross. S wrote:So this gives rich French and English clubs more incentive to snap up young/low capped Welsh players because they know they'll be available all season.....

What happens when a country decides to start snapping up young promising players? We won't/cant cap them and don't have the money to go up against rich clubs

Hopefully(??) the WRU will be proactive and seek out promising young WC players who happen to be abroad (mostly England) and keep a dialogue with them, incentivise them to move to a Welsh region etc.

Actually (and this may be a slightly crazy idea) but how about having some games (say some or all of the AIs) open to ALL WC players, to give them a taste of Welsh glory, and lock them in...?

I see Gats is saying Webb can still get out of this as he's only signed a letter of intent and not a contract. Nice to see Gats commenting in public on the contract details of a player, especially when at the same time Gats is saying SOB was wrong to talk in public, you stay classy Warren!

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Ross. S wrote:So this gives rich French and English clubs more incentive to snap up young/low capped Welsh players because they know they'll be available all season.....

What happens when a country decides to start snapping up young promising players? We won't/cant cap them and don't have the money to go up against rich clubs

Hopefully(??) the WRU will be proactive and seek out promising young WC players who happen to be abroad (mostly England) and keep a dialogue with them, incentivise them to move to a Welsh region etc.

Actually (and this may be a slightly crazy idea) but how about having some games (say some or all of the AIs) open to ALL WC players, to give them a taste of Welsh glory, and lock them in...?

Honestly with the money avaliable elsewhere we are going to lose a lot more talent whichever plan they come up with...even if they shut down this present offering .

Although I don't think it will ever happen and it would get very messy ..again ..it could be good to allow the coach a couple of free picks in the squad ...as in the end ..it is going to be how we measure their success in the future as well as the national side.

Numbers wrote:Biggar needs to get 4 more caps this season to be eligible.

Moriarty will have to sign for a Welsh side at the end of the season to be eligible.

How does this affect Liam Williams who has 43 caps? Is he qualified? Did he have an arrangement pre selection policy change? At the moment he's looking about the best back three player in Europe.