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Free speech

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:03 pm
by Zhivago
Woman holds placard with "Fuck the DUP"

Is arrested and referred to prosecutor.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... dup-banner

Re: Free speech

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:26 pm
by Digby
If that's a hate crime and/or breach of the peace the days of the Orange men marching are well and truly over. Indeed the former residents of Grenfell Tower might need to watch their Ps and Qs

Re: Free speech

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:44 pm
by Sandydragon
Hmmm, looks bad until you consider the tight rules around parades in NI, which exist for a good reason. The DUP fella who complained seems to be a bit of a cnut, but his point that the law must be applied equally is a fair one.

She could have written 'Down with the DUP' or similar and not have caused herself any problems.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:46 pm
by Numbers
Sandydragon wrote:Hmmm, looks bad until you consider the tight rules around parades in NI, which exist for a good reason. The DUP fella who complained seems to be a bit of a cnut, but his point that the law must be applied equally is a fair one.

She could have written 'Down with the DUP' or similar and not have caused herself any problems.
You've been watching too much Father Ted.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:04 pm
by Digby
Sandydragon wrote:Hmmm, looks bad until you consider the tight rules around parades in NI, which exist for a good reason. The DUP fella who complained seems to be a bit of a cnut, but his point that the law must be applied equally is a fair one.

She could have written 'Down with the DUP' or similar and not have caused herself any problems.
If the DUP fella feels it important people be treated equally I look forward to the DUP handing back the bribe for propping up a minority government

Re: Free speech

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:36 pm
by Sandydragon
Digby wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Hmmm, looks bad until you consider the tight rules around parades in NI, which exist for a good reason. The DUP fella who complained seems to be a bit of a cnut, but his point that the law must be applied equally is a fair one.

She could have written 'Down with the DUP' or similar and not have caused herself any problems.
If the DUP fella feels it important people be treated equally I look forward to the DUP handing back the bribe for propping up a minority government
And you know thats a very different thing. To my knowledge, both unionists and republicans have made complaints under this law in recent years.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:50 pm
by Digby
Sandydragon wrote:
Digby wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Hmmm, looks bad until you consider the tight rules around parades in NI, which exist for a good reason. The DUP fella who complained seems to be a bit of a cnut, but his point that the law must be applied equally is a fair one.

She could have written 'Down with the DUP' or similar and not have caused herself any problems.
If the DUP fella feels it important people be treated equally I look forward to the DUP handing back the bribe for propping up a minority government
And you know thats a very different thing. To my knowledge, both unionists and republicans have made complaints under this law in recent years.
Different in a way yes, but it would also be morally consistent, which being DUP he likely isn't

Re: Free speech

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:57 pm
by Mellsblue
Digby wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Hmmm, looks bad until you consider the tight rules around parades in NI, which exist for a good reason. The DUP fella who complained seems to be a bit of a cnut, but his point that the law must be applied equally is a fair one.

She could have written 'Down with the DUP' or similar and not have caused herself any problems.
If the DUP fella feels it important people be treated equally I look forward to the DUP handing back the bribe for propping up a minority government
Only if the Lib Dems go first.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:54 pm
by Digby
Mellsblue wrote:
Digby wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Hmmm, looks bad until you consider the tight rules around parades in NI, which exist for a good reason. The DUP fella who complained seems to be a bit of a cnut, but his point that the law must be applied equally is a fair one.

She could have written 'Down with the DUP' or similar and not have caused herself any problems.
If the DUP fella feels it important people be treated equally I look forward to the DUP handing back the bribe for propping up a minority government
Only if the Lib Dems go first.
You're saying they haven't already?

Re: Free speech

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:39 am
by Mellsblue
Digby wrote:
Mellsblue wrote:
Digby wrote:
If the DUP fella feels it important people be treated equally I look forward to the DUP handing back the bribe for propping up a minority government
Only if the Lib Dems go first.
You're saying they haven't already?
In terms of collateral damage, maybe. If they give up the vast majority of their members of the House of Lords then I supppose we can call it even.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:46 am
by Digby
Mellsblue wrote:
Digby wrote:
Mellsblue wrote: Only if the Lib Dems go first.
You're saying they haven't already?
In terms of collateral damage, maybe. If they give up the vast majority of their members of the House of Lords then I supppose we can call it even.
Perhaps, though I'm not sure they took a bribe in return for forming a government.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:06 am
by Mellsblue
Digby wrote:
Mellsblue wrote:
Digby wrote:
You're saying they haven't already?
In terms of collateral damage, maybe. If they give up the vast majority of their members of the House of Lords then I supppose we can call it even.
Perhaps, though I'm not sure they took a bribe in return for forming a government.
Agreed, unless you call the demands for money for free school meals and everything associated with it a bribe. Which if you call the money for infrastructure in NI a bribe then you would have to. Rather, it's just how coalition/ supply and confidence negotiations work the world over. That it's the unpalatable DUP rather than the nice and fluffy Lib Dems makes sod all difference other than how certain people will spin it.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:38 am
by Digby
Mellsblue wrote:
Digby wrote:
Mellsblue wrote: In terms of collateral damage, maybe. If they give up the vast majority of their members of the House of Lords then I supppose we can call it even.
Perhaps, though I'm not sure they took a bribe in return for forming a government.
Agreed, unless you call the demands for money for free school meals and everything associated with it a bribe. Which if you call the money for infrastructure in NI a bribe then you would have to. Rather, it's just how coalition/ supply and confidence negotiations work the world over. That it's the unpalatable DUP rather than the nice and fluffy Lib Dems makes sod all difference other than how certain people will spin it.
The demand for free school meals wasn't merely addressed at a local level. Had the DUP taken the extra money granted and seen that split equally on the basis of the Barnett Formula that would have been comparable to the Lib Dem's actions, but accidentally perhaps the DUP didn't share the money on an equal basis.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:15 pm
by Mellsblue
Digby wrote:
Mellsblue wrote:
Digby wrote:
Perhaps, though I'm not sure they took a bribe in return for forming a government.
Agreed, unless you call the demands for money for free school meals and everything associated with it a bribe. Which if you call the money for infrastructure in NI a bribe then you would have to. Rather, it's just how coalition/ supply and confidence negotiations work the world over. That it's the unpalatable DUP rather than the nice and fluffy Lib Dems makes sod all difference other than how certain people will spin it.
The demand for free school meals wasn't merely addressed at a local level. Had the DUP taken the extra money granted and seen that split equally on the basis of the Barnett Formula that would have been comparable to the Lib Dem's actions, but accidentally perhaps the DUP didn't share the money on an equal basis.
As far as I'm aware, it was only for English schools as it is a devolved issue. Regardless, I see the issue of where geographically the money is spent as a red herring.

Re: Free speech

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:47 pm
by Digby
Not just why but where money is spent seems rather apposite to me. I'd allow some flexibility beyond merely the Barnett Formula, but not in an instance like this, this is corruption of the purpose of a national government, not maybe corruption like Liam Fox likes to engage in, but pretty ropey nonetheless.