RugbyRebels

based On the last 4 games, who is in the match day 22?

The style is, um, evolving (being optimistic) but which players have forced their way into the starting XV against Scotland, assuming everyone is fit.

1. Rob Evans. Not his greatest performance today but he has cemented his place as our first choice loose head.
2. Ken Owens. Still our best choice.
3. Hmmm. Jury out on Francis and Lee probably remains our first choice. Brown had some good cameos but it’s a bit soon yet.
4. I was hoping Seb Davies would get more opportunity but as he hasn’t. Jake Ball keeps the shirt.
5. AWJ.
6. Shingler has done pretty well, but we need momentum and I’d suggest Warburton regains this shirt when fit.
7. Our new style seems well suited for Tipuric.
8. Faletau.
9. Should be Webb but if he isn’t going to be available come the RWC then Davies it is. Aled Davies was fairly lively today but too many passes went too high.
10. I’d love to see Priestland start. I suspect it will be Biggar.
11. Amos. Done enough this series and offers a lot in attack without defensive frailties.
12. I would have said Owen Williams. After Parkes display today I’m no longer so certain. Williams offers a lot but Parkes is real class. If Biggar starts then Owen Williams but if Priestland is the choice then Parkes.
13. JD2.
14. North. We need gain line breakers and with some footballers around him we can get more out of the big man.
15. Williams.

Very harsh on Navidi, but whilst he has been good this series, I think Warburton and Tipuric offers more and Moriarty provides more impact from the bench.

Other bench players
Wyn Jones.
Dee
God alone knows
Cory Hill
Moriarty
Aled Davies
Priestland (if Biggar starts)
Scott Williams

Not much argument here. I still have nightmares about a Priestland implosion though.

As noted elsewhere, Ollie Griffiths could be in the mix. I presume that James Davies shagged someone's wife. Agreed that Shingler and Navidi have proven viable options but it's got to be Tips & Warbs if both are fit. Gareth Davies is an enigma - capable of going missing and seems to have no tactical appreciation at all, but he does keep scoring tries, the little git!

I never thought I would call for a Wales XXIII without a fit Leigh Halfpenny in it; but I truly fear we've ruined him for good. Bollocks.

Halfpenny has been one of the first names on the team sheet for so long, but he isn’t offering much at the moment. Hopefully his mojo will return, but for now Liam Williams should be our starting full back.

Sandydragon wrote:based On the last 4 games, who is in the match day 22?

The style is, um, evolving (being optimistic) but which players have forced their way into the starting XV against Scotland, assuming everyone is fit.

1. Rob Evans. Not his greatest performance today but he has cemented his place as our first choice loose head.
2. Ken Owens. Still our best choice.
3. Hmmm. Jury out on Francis and Lee probably remains our first choice. Brown had some good cameos but it’s a bit soon yet.
4. I was hoping Seb Davies would get more opportunity but as he hasn’t. Jake Ball keeps the shirt.
5. AWJ.
6. Shingler has done pretty well, but we need momentum and I’d suggest Warburton regains this shirt when fit.
7. Our new style seems well suited for Tipuric.
8. Faletau.
9. Should be Webb but if he isn’t going to be available come the RWC then Davies it is. Aled Davies was fairly lively today but too many passes went too high.
10. I’d love to see Priestland start. I suspect it will be Biggar.
11. Amos. Done enough this series and offers a lot in attack without defensive frailties.
12. I would have said Owen Williams. After Parkes display today I’m no longer so certain. Williams offers a lot but Parkes is real class. If Biggar starts then Owen Williams but if Priestland is the choice then Parkes.
13. JD2.
14. North. We need gain line breakers and with some footballers around him we can get more out of the big man.
15. Williams.

Very harsh on Navidi, but whilst he has been good this series, I think Warburton and Tipuric offers more and Moriarty provides more impact from the bench.

Other bench players
Wyn Jones.
Dee
God alone knows
Cory Hill
Moriarty
Aled Davies
Priestland (if Biggar starts)
Scott Williams

Yep for most of this ..Leon Brown has to be the sub if we are going to develop hIm.
I am not 100%sure about Lee as the starter. .he is the better scrummager when fully fit but his injuries seem to knock him back .We really need a 3 who can scrummage and play half ok in the loose.
I would start Parkes as a choice
I thought JD2 was out for the season ...but it won't be news if I am wrong.
I think Gatland will start Webb in the 6N ...I also have a gut ferling that after the AI he will bring pressure on the WRU to construct some method where common sense will prevail.
Because as of now Gareth Davies just has too many brain farts and frustratingly just does not seem to be really putting them behind him .

Whoops ..

Totally agree about Webb, surely if he negotiated a contract before the announcement that provides some wriggle room?

Forgot JD2 was out for the long term. As much as I liked what Owen Williams brought to the table, I’d be inclined to go with Parkes if it’s going to be Scott Williams at OC, with Amos given freedom to pop up as additional playmaker.

Halfpenny surely has had his day as 1st choice fullback.
Williams or Amos has to start there or even Dan Evans as an attacking option (it'll never happen I know).

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PoolerSaint wrote:Halfpenny surely has had his day as 1st choice fullback.
Williams or Amos has to start there or even Dan Evans as an attacking option (it'll never happen I know).

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I think Dan Evans cannot be a good trainer and anyways he is very one dimensional all this running and attacking mullarky. ..can't have that stuff.

I honestly think Halfpenny could start to get some zing back with Wellies in his ear giving him confidence to attack and with a bit of luck by the WC could hopefully have had been reprogrammed.

The reason I sincerly hope this will happen is his defensive positional play ..kicking and tackling are still top notch.

Totally agree with you about Halfpenny, he's still young enough to get some form back.
But leave him alone at the Scarlets to re-learn those attacking instincts with Stephen Jones.


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I would like to see this:

Evans
Owens
Lee
Ball
AWJ
Moriarty
Warburton
Faletau
G Davies
Priestland
Amos
Parkes
Williams
North
Williams

Bench: Wyn Jones/Gethin, Dee, Brown, Hill, Tipuric, A Davies, Biggar, Steff Evans

Moriarty's ball carrying will be much needed.

Tho I would expect the 10s to be reversed.

We desperately need to break th gain line and Moriarty is crucial, North too.

Sandydragon wrote:We desperately need to break th gain line and Moriarty is crucial, North too.

Would u drop s Evans for North.

Who would u drop to get Morriarty in?

If Moriarty is fit for the Scotland game he'll start ahead of Shingler.
North has to come into the side in place of Steff who's a work in progress.
North should enjoy playing a more expansive game rather than getting used as a battering ram.

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whatisthejava wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:We desperately need to break th gain line and Moriarty is crucial, North too.

Would u drop s Evans for North.

Who would u drop to get Morriarty in?

I would drop Evans. Bags of potential but he offered far less than Amos this autumn. North, assuming he is playing well for his club on return from injury offers a lot and can get us over the gain line. A back 3 of Liam Williams, Amos and North for me.

Shingles and Navidi both did well this autumn, but Moriarty offers a line breaking ability that shingles doesn’t and Tipuris is pure class. My back row, given Warburton isn’t fit and might not make the 6N is Faletau, Tipuric and Moriarty/Navidi, one starts the other on the bench. Shingles does a lot right but I feel the other 2 get over the gain line better.

To be fair to Stef he was very rarely given ball in any space, mostly the ball was shovelled out to him with the expectation he could beat 3 or 4 defenders. That said Amos played above my expectations this Autumn.

bruce wrote:To be fair to Stef he was very rarely given ball in any space, mostly the ball was shovelled out to him with the expectation he could beat 3 or 4 defenders. That said Amos played above my expectations this Autumn.

That's the new gameplan.

wayneha50 wrote:

bruce wrote:To be fair to Stef he was very rarely given ball in any space, mostly the ball was shovelled out to him with the expectation he could beat 3 or 4 defenders. That said Amos played above my expectations this Autumn.

That's the new gameplan.

I think that was the old game plan ...shovel it to Shane and let him beat 3 or 4 defenders ...

A little controversial I know but for me


If we are going to play this way Id go
L Williams at 15, hes lost on the wing.
JD2 would be at 13 ut hey ho.
Anscombe at 10 although Id be happy with Priestland, Biggars out.
Id also drop AWJ....completely.
Back row, Id give Tipuric a go just to see if this new style suits him like we think it will - if that doesnt work its back to Navidi/Warburton.

So for me.

Williams, North, Williams, Parkes, Amos, Anscombe, Webb
Evans, Owen, Lee, Ball, Charteris, Moriaty, Tipuric, Faletau

B: Dee, W Jones, Brown, S Davies, Warburton/O Griffiths/Navidi, G Davies, Patchell, Halfpenny

MrK wrote:A little controversial I know but for me


If we are going to play this way Id go
L Williams at 15, hes lost on the wing.
JD2 would be at 13 ut hey ho.
Anscombe at 10 although Id be happy with Priestland, Biggars out.
Id also drop AWJ....completely.
Back row, Id give Tipuric a go just to see if this new style suits him like we think it will - if that doesnt work its back to Navidi/Warburton.

So for me.

Williams, North, Williams, Parkes, Amos, Anscombe, Webb
Evans, Owen, Lee, Ball, Charteris, Moriaty, Tipuric, Faletau

B: Dee, W Jones, Brown, S Davies, Warburton/O Griffiths/Navidi, G Davies, Patchell, Halfpenny

Looks like Ball is sadly out for the 6N.
Not sure that Halfpenny would supply much on the bench other than a goal kicker .. I would prefer to see Evans in that scenario..
I also would be interested to see how Anscombe goes but if you are going to roll the dice ..start with Patchell he has pace to burn and will work well with the centres.and would offer something that the opposition would not be sure about.

Is Moriarty still out after his second back issue ...or is he back playing yet?

Sandydragon wrote: I would drop Evans. Bags of potential but he offered far less than Amos this autumn.

On the one hand, it's a competition game with points at stake, and we need to win it first and worry about everything else later.

But when I read the above I think to myself "Bags of potential... but I'd drop him" - so how is he supposed to realize that potential? Go back and put in a few more MOTM shifts for Scarlets? Because he was doing that already. This is not a dig at you Sandy, because I think you have a point - it's a serious question and I don't know how to square the circle. We surely have to accept that some players take a while to bed in to international rugby? If Evans had had a couple of nightmares and cost us games we would otherwise have won, fair enough. But all he's really done wrong is to not look as great as we'd hoped, yet. But yes, I tend to agree that as things stand, we stand a better chance of winning this match with North. Bugger.

Summer tour maybe? I doubt he will be out of the frame completely.

Sandydragon wrote:Summer tour maybe? I doubt he will be out of the frame completely.

Italy match also.

Sourdust wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: I would drop Evans. Bags of potential but he offered far less than Amos this autumn.

On the one hand, it's a competition game with points at stake, and we need to win it first and worry about everything else later.

But when I read the above I think to myself "Bags of potential... but I'd drop him" - so how is he supposed to realize that potential? Go back and put in a few more MOTM shifts for Scarlets? Because he was doing that already. This is not a dig at you Sandy, because I think you have a point - it's a serious question and I don't know how to square the circle. We surely have to accept that some players take a while to bed in to international rugby? If Evans had had a couple of nightmares and cost us games we would otherwise have won, fair enough. But all he's really done wrong is to not look as great as we'd hoped, yet. But yes, I tend to agree that as things stand, we stand a better chance of winning this match with North. Bugger.

It is a conundrum that most teams go through ...how can I develop a player but not over expose the team.

I think Evans is good enough to understand what he needs to work on...and given the coaching set up at the Scarlets he will get all the support he needs.

For the 6N when he doesn't start he needs to be on the bench and get some time on the field. He will offer something differant from the bench cover FB and wing with possibly North cover the centre.

Depending on the opposition, there’s no reason why Evans shouldn’t be on the bench. With scrum half and fly half cover a certainty, and Scott Williams likely to start in Foxys absence, who else would be there? Potentially Owen Watkin but he is just as untried. Evans has potential when a game loosens up to cause carnage which should count in his favour.

ALunpg wrote:

Sourdust wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: I would drop Evans. Bags of potential but he offered far less than Amos this autumn.

On the one hand, it's a competition game with points at stake, and we need to win it first and worry about everything else later.

But when I read the above I think to myself "Bags of potential... but I'd drop him" - so how is he supposed to realize that potential? Go back and put in a few more MOTM shifts for Scarlets? Because he was doing that already. This is not a dig at you Sandy, because I think you have a point - it's a serious question and I don't know how to square the circle. We surely have to accept that some players take a while to bed in to international rugby? If Evans had had a couple of nightmares and cost us games we would otherwise have won, fair enough. But all he's really done wrong is to not look as great as we'd hoped, yet. But yes, I tend to agree that as things stand, we stand a better chance of winning this match with North. Bugger.

It is a conundrum that most teams go through ...how can I develop a player but not over expose the team.

I think Evans is good enough to understand what he needs to work on...and given the coaching set up at the Scarlets he will get all the support he needs.

For the 6N when he doesn't start he needs to be on the bench and get some time on the field. He will offer something differant from the bench cover FB and wing with possibly North cover the centre.

I suppose the pecking order for the wings would be:

Williams
North
Amos
Evans
Cuthbert

So if all are fit come the 6 nations I can see Amos on the bench for the majority of games as he can cover 15 and 13 also, saying that Steff Evans came through the age grade as a 15 and North can always cover 13 if required.