RugbyRebels

As forwards and skills+exits coaches respectively.

So far we've been running with Dai Young, Lee Blackett and Phil Blake, apparently the smallest team in the AP. Andy Titterall has been helping out with the forwards, but is technically s&c. We did have an assistant forwards coach, but he was relatively quietly let go early this season I believe, not sure what happened there.

Danny Wilson is supposed to be an excellent forwards coach.

Timbo wrote:Danny Wilson is supposed to be an excellent forwards coach.

Lots of praise coming from the Welsh guys that I can see, all impressed with how he's turned the packs around.

exit coach. That's just happened at Saints.

but wtf...exits coach....

Banquo wrote:exit coach. That's just happened at Saints.

but wtf...exits coach....

Interesting one the exit plays, does that belong to the forwards or attack coach? I'd say attack, but it depends a bit on what the coaches are like. Not sure why one needs to append exit coach to a job title mind.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:exit coach. That's just happened at Saints.

but wtf...exits coach....

Interesting one the exit plays, does that belong to the forwards or attack coach? I'd say attack, but it depends a bit on what the coaches are like. Not sure why one needs to append exit coach to a job title mind.

quite. I do like some specialisation, but that narrow, and as you say one that crosses other jobs in the coaching team seems an NFL too far.

Mind, it is an area that does warrant attention- from taking the re-start and so on.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:exit coach. That's just happened at Saints.

but wtf...exits coach....

Interesting one the exit plays, does that belong to the forwards or attack coach? I'd say attack, but it depends a bit on what the coaches are like. Not sure why one needs to append exit coach to a job title mind.

quite. I do like some specialisation, but that narrow, and as you say one that crosses other jobs in the coaching team seems an NFL too far.

Mind, it is an area that does warrant attention- from taking the re-start and so on.

I don't know - you can have lineouts coach and scrum coach, so why not exits? I wouldn't mind England having one frankly, with the number of restart takes that we screw up.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
Interesting one the exit plays, does that belong to the forwards or attack coach? I'd say attack, but it depends a bit on what the coaches are like. Not sure why one needs to append exit coach to a job title mind.

quite. I do like some specialisation, but that narrow, and as you say one that crosses other jobs in the coaching team seems an NFL too far.

Mind, it is an area that does warrant attention- from taking the re-start and so on.

I don't know - you can have lineouts coach and scrum coach, so why not exits? I wouldn't mind England having one frankly, with the number of restart takes that we screw up.

Puja

I don't know why it needs to be a specific job title- I don't disagree, as in fact I wrote, that it needs attention- its something that should be part of another remit (and not really skills, but I see what they have done).

Too many coaches spoil the broth or similar, players are easily confused

I thought this was the folk duo booked for the Christmas party. As it’s not, I have nothing further to add.

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
Interesting one the exit plays, does that belong to the forwards or attack coach? I'd say attack, but it depends a bit on what the coaches are like. Not sure why one needs to append exit coach to a job title mind.

quite. I do like some specialisation, but that narrow, and as you say one that crosses other jobs in the coaching team seems an NFL too far.

Mind, it is an area that does warrant attention- from taking the re-start and so on.

I don't know - you can have lineouts coach and scrum coach, so why not exits? I wouldn't mind England having one frankly, with the number of restart takes that we screw up.

Puja

Sadly the easiest way to improve England's restarts is to drop Launchbury, for such a good player he's got a poor history at the restart.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: quite. I do like some specialisation, but that narrow, and as you say one that crosses other jobs in the coaching team seems an NFL too far.

Mind, it is an area that does warrant attention- from taking the re-start and so on.

I don't know - you can have lineouts coach and scrum coach, so why not exits? I wouldn't mind England having one frankly, with the number of restart takes that we screw up.

Puja

Sadly the easiest way to improve England's restarts is to drop Launchbury, for such a good player he's got a poor history at the restart.

yep, ball almost inevitably sails over his head. Yet another thing Itoje excels at. So, don't let Launch do it is another answer.

Mellsblue wrote:I thought this was the folk duo booked for the Christmas party. As it’s not, I have nothing further to add.

Digby's prayer

Banquo wrote:exit coach. That's just happened at Saints.

but wtf...exits coach....

Does it just refer to the set piece or exit from rucks too? Never heard the title before.

It'll be any play from within your 22/half, so if you run some phase play before exiting it's still an exit play. The reason I'd want an attack coach to run this area is for any given quality of ball it's the easiest area to attack from even if the highest risk

Digby wrote:It'll be any play from within your 22/half, so if you run some phase play before exiting it's still an exit play. The reason I'd want an attack coach to run this area is for any given quality of ball it's the easiest area to attack from even if the highest risk

I don't see us giving up our instinct to run it. I just hope he points out that the mid length, noncompetitive kicks to the opposition back 3, whilst our defence moves slowly up, and allows them a free run at us (normally either at halfway or in our half), isn't fecking working.

I was just about to say that Wasps restarts have needed urgent attention for ages, but since Launch has been mentioned already then it's been covered to a large degree. He's not the only offender at Wasps mind. It isn't just catching the ball that's the problem, the support doesn't get there with any urgency. Can't work out why tf they aren't sorting this weakest of areas out, it's glaringly bad. Maybe things will improve now though.

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:It'll be any play from within your 22/half, so if you run some phase play before exiting it's still an exit play. The reason I'd want an attack coach to run this area is for any given quality of ball it's the easiest area to attack from even if the highest risk

I don't see us giving up our instinct to run it. I just hope he points out that the mid length, noncompetitive kicks to the opposition back 3, whilst our defence moves slowly up, and allows them a free run at us (normally either at halfway or in our half), isn't fecking working.

I hate box kicking at the best of times (whilst recognising that its an effective tactic if by having very athletic chaser good under the high ball to regather, making the odds better of regathering), its even worse when this soft option you describe is taken, its just plain stupid, almost whoever you are playing. Almost as infuriating as the classic England tactic of winger takes ball into contact, trapped in ruck, but lets kick it anyway even if there is only one chaser and its Dylan Hartley.

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:It'll be any play from within your 22/half, so if you run some phase play before exiting it's still an exit play. The reason I'd want an attack coach to run this area is for any given quality of ball it's the easiest area to attack from even if the highest risk

I don't see us giving up our instinct to run it. I just hope he points out that the mid length, noncompetitive kicks to the opposition back 3, whilst our defence moves slowly up, and allows them a free run at us (normally either at halfway or in our half), isn't fecking working.

I hate box kicking at the best of times (whilst recognising that its an effective tactic if by having very athletic chaser good under the high ball to regather, making the odds better of regathering), its even worse when this soft option you describe is taken, its just plain stupid, almost whoever you are playing. Almost as infuriating as the classic England tactic of winger takes ball into contact, trapped in ruck, but lets kick it anyway even if there is only one chaser and its Dylan Hartley.

Agreed. I can't understand why so many pundits/commentators describe a kick as good when, at best, it leads to about a 20% chance of getting possession in a significantly improved field position. The thought of feeding the NZ back three makes me shudder. In a way, its a shame that we did not play them a year or so back so that we could have been taught a lesson.

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:
I don't see us giving up our instinct to run it. I just hope he points out that the mid length, noncompetitive kicks to the opposition back 3, whilst our defence moves slowly up, and allows them a free run at us (normally either at halfway or in our half), isn't fecking working.

I hate box kicking at the best of times (whilst recognising that its an effective tactic if by having very athletic chaser good under the high ball to regather, making the odds better of regathering), its even worse when this soft option you describe is taken, its just plain stupid, almost whoever you are playing. Almost as infuriating as the classic England tactic of winger takes ball into contact, trapped in ruck, but lets kick it anyway even if there is only one chaser and its Dylan Hartley.

Agreed. I can't understand why so many pundits/commentators describe a kick as good when, at best, it leads to about a 20% chance of getting possession in a significantly improved field position. The thought of feeding the NZ back three makes me shudder. In a way, its a shame that we did not play them a year or so back so that we could have been taught a lesson.

a good one is 50/50 I'd say.Someone like Biggar or Folau chasing tilts the odds a bit further, depending on the catcher too.

We were taught a lesson in 2015, seems Eddie wasn't watching, except the standard of execution has improved a bit. Still a tad lazy, though not a bad strategy as an exit play, as say Ireland regularly show. Personally I'd prefer a decent length clearance to touch, and have a good go at their lineout, but what do I know. The other annoying thing about the box kick is how dreary the whole rigmarole is from the 9- which I understand, but its still tedious

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote: I hate box kicking at the best of times (whilst recognising that its an effective tactic if by having very athletic chaser good under the high ball to regather, making the odds better of regathering), its even worse when this soft option you describe is taken, its just plain stupid, almost whoever you are playing. Almost as infuriating as the classic England tactic of winger takes ball into contact, trapped in ruck, but lets kick it anyway even if there is only one chaser and its Dylan Hartley.

Agreed. I can't understand why so many pundits/commentators describe a kick as good when, at best, it leads to about a 20% chance of getting possession in a significantly improved field position. The thought of feeding the NZ back three makes me shudder. In a way, its a shame that we did not play them a year or so back so that we could have been taught a lesson.

a good one is 50/50 I'd say.Someone like Biggar or Folau chasing tilts the odds a bit further, depending on the catcher too.

We were taught a lesson in 2015, seems Eddie wasn't watching, except the standard of execution has improved a bit. Still a tad lazy, though not a bad strategy as an exit play, as say Ireland regularly show. Personally I'd prefer a decent length clearance to touch, and have a good go at their lineout, but what do I know. The other annoying thing about the box kick is how dreary the whole rigmarole is from the 9- which I understand, but its still tedious

I still blame Robert Jones. SHs kicked much less till he arrived.

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Agreed. I can't understand why so many pundits/commentators describe a kick as good when, at best, it leads to about a 20% chance of getting possession in a significantly improved field position. The thought of feeding the NZ back three makes me shudder. In a way, its a shame that we did not play them a year or so back so that we could have been taught a lesson.

a good one is 50/50 I'd say.Someone like Biggar or Folau chasing tilts the odds a bit further, depending on the catcher too.

We were taught a lesson in 2015, seems Eddie wasn't watching, except the standard of execution has improved a bit. Still a tad lazy, though not a bad strategy as an exit play, as say Ireland regularly show. Personally I'd prefer a decent length clearance to touch, and have a good go at their lineout, but what do I know. The other annoying thing about the box kick is how dreary the whole rigmarole is from the 9- which I understand, but its still tedious

I still blame Robert Jones. SHs kicked much less till he arrived.

You never saw Clive Rowlands play.

Robert Jones was a great 9, proper job.

I quite like the whole two passes to the full-back (or other back with a really big boot) who aims for the opposite corner to the one the opposition were expecting the clearance. You pretty much never get touch but, if you trust your kick chase more than their back 3's running, it's a really good way to isolate an opposition carrier, maybe get a turn over, certainly force their pack to work like mad.

In general though, I'm happy with a well executed box-kick.

Peat wrote:I quite like the whole two passes to the full-back (or other back with a really big boot) who aims for the opposite corner to the one the opposition were expecting the clearance. You pretty much never get touch but, if you trust your kick chase more than their back 3's running, it's a really good way to isolate an opposition carrier, maybe get a turn over, certainly force their pack to work like mad.

In general though, I'm happy with a well executed box-kick.

Wiper kicks are under used, it’s true.

A lot more sides are now simply playing their way out, and if you are good enough, it’s better than giving it away,