School issue, police issue...or both?

[WaspInWales]

I saw an article on the Beeb news site yesterday about a 15 year old Syrian refugee who was bullied at school. As with many criminal masterminds these days, it seems a mate of the 16 year who carried out the attack, film it and then it was uploaded. That said, I'm not 100% sure it was a mate of the kid who carried out the attack who recorded it, but it wouldn't surprise me. Police have since charged the 16 year old with assault.

Just hours later, another video has emerged showing the sister of Syrian refugee also being picked on at the same school. No charges have been made in relation to this incident as yet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-46379548

After watching both videos, I'm not against the decision to charge the knuckle dragging scumbag, but it got me thinking. Where does it end, and was the decision to charge made based on the race of the victim?

I remember far more graphic examples of violence at school in my day, but thankfully things have changed since then. However, I have two kids in comp and from what I hear, the kind of instances of bullying from the recent videos are still pretty common.

So the question is, should the schools be dealing with this? If it's a police matter, should all instances of a similar nature, regardless of the race of anyone involved be open to the possibility of a criminal prosecution? After all, if an adult set on another adult in the street like that, it would be reasonable to think that an assault had taken place.

[Mellsblue]

I think because of its racist motivation it’s a hate crime and therefore the police should be involved. Hopefully all the f**kers involved will spend their summer holidays working on aid convoys to Syria. Perhaps whilst they’re there, they could spend a night in a basement somewhere listening to the bombing and wondering whether they will be hit. If that’s too expensive a lesson, perhaps we could blow up the perpetrators house and kill some of his family. The last one is obviously a joke but I’d pay towards sending him on an aid convoy.

A fund has been set up to raise money for the family to hopefully show them that 90% of the country are happy they are here and that we are glad we could help them:
https://www.gofundme.com/jamal-from-hud ... _receiptv5

[cashead]

Teacher perspective here: why shouldn't it be a police matter. The kids should face internal discipline, but cases of assault like this should be charged as a crime. Besides, fuck those racist pissbags. Fucking pieces of shit, what the fuck makes them think they have the right?

[Stom]

Isn't the difference the media attention, not the police?

I know that the police got involved with the worst cases of bullying back when I was in school and that was definitely not race motivated bullying.

It's just that this is reported in the media while the other instances are not. Because, well, none of them are really news worthy are they?

[cashead]

Pretty much. A bunch of fucking cowards ganging up on someone to beat the piss out of them? That shit should be a police matter, with a GTFO from school as a formality. It's just these cowardly pissbags just happened to be a bit very racist because of course they are - would you expect any better from human garbage like that?

[Stones of granite]

It seems pretty clear to me that it's a Police matter regardless of media involvement and race. My son was interviewed by the Police as a witness to a similar event a few years ago at our local high school. There was no media involvement whatsoever.

[fivepointer]

The Law -

Some forms of bullying are illegal and should be reported to the police. These include:
violence or assault
theft
repeated harassment or intimidation, for example name calling, threats and abusive phone calls, emails or text messages
hate crimes

Children over 10
Children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

They are treated differently from adults and are:
dealt with by youth courts
given different sentences
sent to special secure centres for young people, not adult prisons.

Quite rightly the Police are taking an interest in this shocking assault.
My heart went out to this poor kid. no one should have to tolerate this kind of abuse.

[WaspInWales]

Teacher perspective here: why shouldn't it be a police matter. The kids should face internal discipline, but cases of assault like this should be charged as a crime. Besides, fuck those racist pissbags. Fucking pieces of shit, what the fuck makes them think they have the right?

I'm not arguing against it being a police matter. As I mentioned if an adult targeted another adult in that manner, regardless of race, you would expect police involvement if a complaint was made.

All I'm questioning is, whether race was a deciding factor in the arsehole being charged.

Since starting the thread, I also thought that it is unlikely to be an isolated incident. The kid may have faced months, or even years of targeted abuse with various levels of physical and verbal abuse. It just so happens that there is video evidence to hand on this occasion.

I'm really pleased that a substantial amount of money has been raised for the kid. I hope that in some way it helps him get over things and hoipefully he understands there are some decent folk in this country.

[WaspInWales]

The Law -

Some forms of bullying are illegal and should be reported to the police. These include:
violence or assault
theft
repeated harassment or intimidation, for example name calling, threats and abusive phone calls, emails or text messages
hate crimes

Children over 10
Children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

They are treated differently from adults and are:
dealt with by youth courts
given different sentences
sent to special secure centres for young people, not adult prisons.

Quite rightly the Police are taking an interest in this shocking assault.
My heart went out to this poor kid. no one should have to tolerate this kind of abuse.

I accept that is what the law states, but in practice, does it get that far? Do schools prefer to deal with name calling, threats, intimidation and some instances of violence in-house? At what point do they contact the police?

I recall the police turning up at my school for incidents including alleged sexual assault on one pupil from another(s), theft of monies, but I can't ever recall the police being involved in the many bullying incidents I witnessed, or was aware of. I realise I'm painting a bad picture of my school here, but it was pretty good in terms of reports and results, but it was typical of other schools in many other ways. Like I said in my first post, a lot has changed since then...which is good.

Child protection issues in schools are taken very seriously these days, and they have specially trained members of staff to escalate matters to and strict procedures to follow.

Perhaps I'm just surprised that it has taken us this long to get to this point?

After all, assault is assault.

[fivepointer]

I would imagine very few cases are referred to the Police. The school, pupil involved and most parents would probably want it to be dealt with in house.
And for most cases that will probably be enough and should result in a resolution. I dont see you could refer every instance of bullying to the police, given the widespread and wide ranging nature of bullying.
Where things get out of control, or are exposed in the media such as this case, the Police should intervene.

[WaspInWales]

I would imagine very few cases are referred to the Police. The school, pupil involved and most parents would probably want it to be dealt with in house.
And for most cases that will probably be enough and should result in a resolution. I dont see you could refer every instance of bullying to the police, given the widespread and wide ranging nature of bullying.
Where things get out of control, or are exposed in the media such as this case, the Police should intervene.

That is my point though. I'm sure instances like from the article are fairly wide spread and common, but take the racial element out of the equation and I can't imagine there would be police involvement. Equally though, I'm sure there are many other victims of school bullying who are targeted due to their race, but no police action is taken as there is no video evidence, or witnesses to back it up.

[fivepointer]

i'd be surprised and very disappointed if the Police didnt follow up on this irrespective of who the victim was.

[WaspInWales]

i'd be surprised and very disappointed if the Police didnt follow up on this irrespective of who the victim was.

I'd be disappointed, but not surprised.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

i'd be surprised and very disappointed if the Police didnt follow up on this irrespective of who the victim was.

I'd be disappointed, but not surprised.

I'd be absolutely astonished if the police had a complaint about violence which they didn't follow up.

You need to separate out various issues. If the police don't know about something then they won't do anything about it. That they know about this case is obviously partly to do with the racial element but this is not the same as saying that they are only interested in it because of race.

Once there is a complaint which is provable - which requires willing and believable witnesses and/or video evidence - then there is consideration whether it's in the public interest to bring a criminal prosecution. For a youth a one off incident or other thing capable of being dealt with by the school probably won't be. There's a positive duty to consider alternatives to prosecution, such as referral to social services or a caution. Even if convicted a first time offender gets an automatic referral to social services as the mandatory sentence unless it is deemed so serious that a custodial sentence is necessary.

[WaspInWales]

Fair points Euge and I agree.
Reading back, my comment was made about the police failing to follow up on a complaint. Perhaps in hindsight I should have been more precise with what I meant.

Yes, I would be surprised if the police failed to follow the complaint up, especially with video evidence to hand. However, I would not be surprised if it didn't result in any charges being made. Especially if it was similar circumstances in a school.

I'm still struggling to make complete sense of what I am trying to say and write. I know what I mean, but getting that across with the right words seems far more difficult since bashing my head.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Fair points Euge and I agree.
Reading back, my comment was made about the police failing to follow up on a complaint. Perhaps in hindsight I should have been more precise with what I meant.

Yes, I would be surprised if the police failed to follow the complaint up, especially with video evidence to hand. However, I would not be surprised if it didn't result in any charges being made. Especially if it was similar circumstances in a school.

I'm still struggling to make complete sense of what I am trying to say and write. I know what I mean, but getting that across with the right words seems far more difficult since bashing my head.

Concussion will do that.

Press coverage is one aspect of the public interest and it probably should be. I'm lucky in that my charging decisions are very rarely made in the full glare of the press and the stuff I deal with is usually so serious that it's rare for it not to be in the public interest to prosecute. It is at least a factor that a failure to prosecute might be interpreted by some as open season on asylum seekers. Similarly failing to prosecute what is racist abuse could be misinterpreted, and in any event a racist attack is one which is more likely to be repeated.