RugbyRebels

OK, so I thought this needed a thread.

Last season we saw a number of clubs being hit extremely hard with injuries. And we thought it was a freak. Well, it's looking like it's not...

Quins are back to a full team of absentees...and more!

Lambert
Buchanan
Sinckler
Horwill
Symons
Robshaw
Kunatani
Bothma
Care
Catrakilis
Visser
Tapuai
Alofa
?
Morris

Lamb, South, Lewis.

And with Wasps and Falcons both severely depleted, Bath struggling with numbers and more, we're in an even worse situation...

What is going on and what can be done about it?

I've come to the conclusion that its the modern, elite game. Injuries, some severe, are simply inevitable.
You can mitigate by reducing workload, providing greater rest periods, a longer off season and training that reduces hard contact to a minimum. There might be some changes to the Laws that would help.
But the game is played by large, powerful athletic men going at each other with power and speed. A body can only take so much stress, so i feel injuries are just a consequence of the way the game is now played.

Ringfencing might help.

fivepointer wrote:I've come to the conclusion that its the modern, elite game. Injuries, some severe, are simply inevitable.
You can mitigate by reducing workload, providing greater rest periods, a longer off season and training that reduces hard contact to a minimum. There might be some changes to the Laws that would help.
But the game is played by large, powerful athletic men going at each other with power and speed. A body can only take so much stress, so i feel injuries are just a consequence of the way the game is now played.

I just don't accept the sheer quantity and the number of them that are relatively severe...

It's extraordinary.

Timbo wrote:Ringfencing might help.

Heh. Very good.

Puja

fivepointer wrote:I've come to the conclusion that its the modern, elite game. Injuries, some severe, are simply inevitable.
You can mitigate by reducing workload, providing greater rest periods, a longer off season and training that reduces hard contact to a minimum. There might be some changes to the Laws that would help.
But the game is played by large, powerful athletic men going at each other with power and speed. A body can only take so much stress, so i feel injuries are just a consequence of the way the game is now played.

Part of me wants to go the other way. The stress on the body is in part because the collissionsbare so huge nowadays. Reducing the amount of game time is only likely to exacerbate this problem by allowing even bigger more powerful players.

I think there is a bearpit mentality in the stands, especially at internationals, that does not help. Some of it is a throwback to Lomu when a man-against-boys spectacle tickled the collective fancy more than skill. We heard it recently in a heightening roar as either Tuilagi or Coka tore into opposing flesh.

Rugby purists may yearn for instances sich as that European club match where Ickle stepped Banahan and left him sitting on his backside. The snag is that it is not just ignorant fans drifting over from the roundball game who enthuse about physicality more than they do about skill. It is coaches too. Coka has already had more opportunity than Wade, for example.

I see it as a mind-set with a sad inevitability about it. I don't want the hard men pushed out by law change but I do yearn for more recognition of skill. If it was really a choice between flair-inspired spectacle or ugly, bludgeoning victory, I'd like to think I'd choose the former but the game is heading the other way with broken bodies the bi-product.

Pretty exhaustive bit of work here by the RFU - https://www.englandrugby.com/news/profe ... -injuries/

Havent looked in detail at the results but this does seem to be a genuine attempt to understand how injuries occur and work out ways of reducing them.

fivepointer wrote:Pretty exhaustive bit of work here by the RFU - https://www.englandrugby.com/news/profe ... -injuries/

Havent looked in detail at the results but this does seem to be a genuine attempt to understand how injuries occur and work out ways of reducing them.

Maybe not trying to fuck each other up with Judo Death Match as part of training?

Itoje says there shouldn't be more cards to help reduce or try to help reduce the number of injuries, not sure I agree with that

Mike Brown says injuries could be addressed by playing less, and I'm all for Mike Brown playing less during international windows so this one seems a goer

There's one simply way to reduce injuries: teach proper tackling technique again!

There are more instances of injuries for the tackler now than for the tacklee. By a distance. If you can cut some of that down, you can reduce a lot of injuries...

Stom wrote:There's one simply way to reduce injuries: teach proper tackling technique again!

There are more instances of injuries for the tackler now than for the tacklee. By a distance. If you can cut some of that down, you can reduce a lot of injuries...

Halfpenny is the classic example of this - there's a lot of handwringing in the press about him missing the start of the 6N with concussion, but no-one ever picks up that it *always* seems to be his fault as he put his head on the wrong side as a matter of course.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:There's one simply way to reduce injuries: teach proper tackling technique again!

There are more instances of injuries for the tackler now than for the tacklee. By a distance. If you can cut some of that down, you can reduce a lot of injuries...

Halfpenny is the classic example of this - there's a lot of handwringing in the press about him missing the start of the 6N with concussion, but no-one ever picks up that it *always* seems to be his fault as he put his head on the wrong side as a matter of course.

Puja

I just don't understand it. When I was playing, we were drilled really hard on tackle technique. We were constantly told to get our heads in the right place and to go low as it means small guys can bring big guys down. But now the pros all go high with no technique. Just like...they've all been taught wrong.

Gah.

Digby wrote:Itoje says there shouldn't be more cards to help reduce or try to help reduce the number of injuries, not sure I agree with that

Mike Brown says injuries could be addressed by playing less, and I'm all for Mike Brown playing less during international windows so this one seems a goer

Tbf, he says less cards for non-dangerous tackles above shoulder height, ie seat belt tackle. He still wants dangerous tackles to be carded.

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:There's one simply way to reduce injuries: teach proper tackling technique again!

There are more instances of injuries for the tackler now than for the tacklee. By a distance. If you can cut some of that down, you can reduce a lot of injuries...

Halfpenny is the classic example of this - there's a lot of handwringing in the press about him missing the start of the 6N with concussion, but no-one ever picks up that it *always* seems to be his fault as he put his head on the wrong side as a matter of course.

Puja

I just don't understand it. When I was playing, we were drilled really hard on tackle technique. We were constantly told to get our heads in the right place and to go low as it means small guys can bring big guys down. But now the pros all go high with no technique. Just like...they've all been taught wrong.

Gah.

Yep. Too much emphasis on tackling high to prevent the ball being recycled quickly or understandably trying to get the turnover.
But are these injuries caused mainly by poor technique in tackling low and getting clobbered by knees? When I began playing all those years ago, I too was told to get my head against the softest part of my opponent's anatomy!!

francoisfou wrote:

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:
Halfpenny is the classic example of this - there's a lot of handwringing in the press about him missing the start of the 6N with concussion, but no-one ever picks up that it *always* seems to be his fault as he put his head on the wrong side as a matter of course.

Puja

I just don't understand it. When I was playing, we were drilled really hard on tackle technique. We were constantly told to get our heads in the right place and to go low as it means small guys can bring big guys down. But now the pros all go high with no technique. Just like...they've all been taught wrong.

Gah.

Yep. Too much emphasis on tackling high to prevent the ball being recycled quickly or understandably trying to get the turnover.
But are these injuries caused mainly by poor technique in tackling low and getting clobbered by knees? When I began playing all those years ago, I too was told to get my head against the softest part of my opponent's anatomy!!

Well, yeah. Their arse!

Seeing heads bouncing off shoulders and chests and so on...I just keep thinking this isn't the same game anymore...

yep - cheek to cheek, ring of steel and slide lower is the message we have been coaching since U9's

Gloskarlos wrote:yep - cheek to cheek, ring of steel and slide lower is the message we have been coaching since U9's

Unless those terms are fully and properly explained this is a scandal waiting to happen.

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:yep - cheek to cheek, ring of steel and slide lower is the message we have been coaching since U9's

Unless those terms are fully and properly explained this is a scandal waiting to happen.

Indeed

Throw in tower of power too and you have the full suite of innuendo lost on 10 year old boys

I used to enjoy defenders hesitating as they tried to work out how to tackle Andy Ripley 'properly'. With his high-stepping gallop, his knees became something of an occupational hazard. Of course, in modern ball-carrying terms, his technique was rubbish. At least it removed the head-to-head danger.


Now, carrying forwards, running with heads down in battering-ram mode, become hard to tackle legally. Choose between impacting too high or no-arms torpedoing.

Gloskarlos wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:yep - cheek to cheek, ring of steel and slide lower is the message we have been coaching since U9's

Unless those terms are fully and properly explained this is a scandal waiting to happen.

Indeed

Throw in tower of power too and you have the full suite of innuendo lost on 10 year old boys

I bloody knew the Gloucester schools were a bunch of cheats!

a) I coach in Royal Leamington Spa don't you know...... (old Glos habits do die hard tho)

b) they started tackling at u9.

c) they are now u11 - which makes them 10 (or 11)

d) at what age DO ring of steel, tower of power, cheek to cheek and sliding down become funny?

francoisfou wrote:

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:
Halfpenny is the classic example of this - there's a lot of handwringing in the press about him missing the start of the 6N with concussion, but no-one ever picks up that it *always* seems to be his fault as he put his head on the wrong side as a matter of course.

Puja

I just don't understand it. When I was playing, we were drilled really hard on tackle technique. We were constantly told to get our heads in the right place and to go low as it means small guys can bring big guys down. But now the pros all go high with no technique. Just like...they've all been taught wrong.

Gah.

Yep. Too much emphasis on tackling high to prevent the ball being recycled quickly or understandably trying to get the turnover.
But are these injuries caused mainly by poor technique in tackling low and getting clobbered by knees? When I began playing all those years ago, I too was told to get my head against the softest part of my opponent's anatomy!!

Partly it's because we no longer have tackles, we have collisions, all a result of coaching and mindset. It's about gainline domination, not just bringing people down.

Gloskarlos wrote:a) I coach in Royal Leamington Spa don't you know...... (old Glos habits do die hard tho)

b) they started tackling at u9.

c) they are now u11 - which makes them 10 (or 11)

d) at what age DO ring of steel, tower of power, cheek to cheek and sliding down become funny?

At what age do they stop being funny?

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:There's one simply way to reduce injuries: teach proper tackling technique again!

There are more instances of injuries for the tackler now than for the tacklee. By a distance. If you can cut some of that down, you can reduce a lot of injuries...

Halfpenny is the classic example of this - there's a lot of handwringing in the press about him missing the start of the 6N with concussion, but no-one ever picks up that it *always* seems to be his fault as he put his head on the wrong side as a matter of course.

Puja

Except to be fair in this example it's because he got clattered off the ball