RugbyRebels

I'm sure you've all followed this saga, of Fiona whipping up the Question Time audience with some anti-Diane Abbott jokes before the show... seems now the BBC has 'privately' admitted it (according to The Independent). Added to that, the pretty undeniable bias shown during the show in the form of interruptions and counter-factual 'correction' Abbott.

Given the general incompetence of our political class, I do find it a bit dodgy that Abbott gets so much negative attention. So much so that I tend to agree that there is probably a large degree of (perhaps subconscious) racial bias inherent in the treatment she receives.

It's probably not just racial bias, I can imagine that there is sexual bias, and also class bias, a real toxic cocktail for her to endure on a daily basis.

p.s. in before police figures mistake - she was suffering a diabetic episode, and even so, we have plenty of (usually white wealthy male politicians) who've done much worse than get a simple sum wrong and not been the victim of such hate and scorn.

Notwithstanding those who will hate her because of her gender or race, the fact she isn’t competent for her role draws a lot of attention. That incident with police numbers wasn’t a one off. Every time she opened her mouth in the last GE campaign she put her foot in it.

As a local MP she is probably alright. As a potential cabinet minister she is a liability. Any senior politician who is so incompetent will get ridicule, just ask Grayling.

The amount of hatred and ill-feeling towards Diane Abbott is not proportional to her mistakes, though...

She should absolutely be open to ridicule. As an individual promoted over her abilities, she makes stupid mistakes and is really open to hypocrisy claims.

BUT, so many people detest her. She has been turned into a character that represents everything that's "wrong" with the left. She's fat, she's a scrounger, she's a hypocrite...she's black, she's a woman...

She's non-conformist...

It's, frankly, disgusting. The way my father speaks about her makes me want to run away. And he's in the MAJORITY, not the minority.

The way she is portrayed in the media is despicable and I think it's something that desperately needs fixing. Corbyn doesn't even get the same treatment. I guess because, despite the fact he's a disgusting lefty, he's a conformist white male...

Stom wrote:The amount of hatred and ill-feeling towards Diane Abbott is not proportional to her mistakes, though...
.

In the sense the opprobrium should be still greater? That's perhaps true, but for all she's a figure of fun she's also not of much sustaining interest, the idea that most people spare her even a glancing moment of thought is a little daft. You'd need to lower oneself to a really deep area within an echo chamber to care much about this

The real problem is almost nobody of any talent in the Labour party sits on their front bench, and it's made worse by always having to answer for Corbyn's duplicitous stance on Brexit

The fact that the discussion here has automatically focused on Abbott and not Bruce just proves the point. It's disgusting.

Zhivago wrote:The fact that the discussion here has automatically focused on Abbott and not Bruce just proves the point. It's disgusting.

TBF you did highlight the comments made about Abbott and then go on to analyse the public perception of her so you've sort of led the conversation down that path really, so you should include yourself in your last comment.

I didn't realise we should focus on the BBC rather than the politicians, focusing on Auntie seems to be putting things in the wrong order

Fwiw if there weren't jokes on the night at the expense of little Ronnie Wood, or Rory Stewart as he's oddly asking to be called, there soon will be when he has to follow through on his promise to resign when he's making no progress with the prisons

Actually if the Conservatives are still in power there's a decent chance they move him to avoid him having totake a hit in public. Or maybe they let little Ronnie take the hit to show they understand sacrifice with the quid pro quo of him getting a better job in the near future

To those of you upset at the above mocking of little Ronnie's appearance you're probably the same spineless bastards getting offended at people mocking the Glorious Leader giving a job to Abbot that she's not up to simply because he was accidentally fucking her whilst married to somebody else. In which case I sincerely offer not the slightest apology

Zhivago wrote:I'm sure you've all followed this saga, of Fiona whipping up the Question Time audience with some anti-Diane Abbott jokes before the show... seems now the BBC has 'privately' admitted it (according to The Independent). Added to that, the pretty undeniable bias shown during the show in the form of interruptions and counter-factual 'correction' Abbott.

Given the general incompetence of our political class, I do find it a bit dodgy that Abbott gets so much negative attention. So much so that I tend to agree that there is probably a large degree of (perhaps subconscious) racial bias inherent in the treatment she receives.

It's probably not just racial bias, I can imagine that there is sexual bias, and also class bias, a real toxic cocktail for her to endure on a daily basis.

p.s. in before police figures mistake - she was suffering a diabetic episode, and even so, we have plenty of (usually white wealthy male politicians) who've done much worse than get a simple sum wrong and not been the victim of such hate and scorn.

Zhivago wrote:The fact that the discussion here has automatically focused on Abbott and not Bruce just proves the point. It's disgusting.

You're turning into a caricature of the permanently offended snowflake millenial. As Numbers has already pointed out, you made this thread about Abbott, and now you complain that it's about her.

Perhaps PMTM was having a diabetic episode when she accidentally stood for leader of the Conservative party destined to take the UK out of the EU, when she is a remainer.

I think you and your kind like to point to Abbott's gender and race and use that as an excuse for the scorn that's poured on her for her ridiculous utterings, when white males like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Jones get just as much scorn for their bizarre ramblings. Perhaps they should develop diabetes too.

Stones of granite wrote:

Zhivago wrote:I'm sure you've all followed this saga, of Fiona whipping up the Question Time audience with some anti-Diane Abbott jokes before the show... seems now the BBC has 'privately' admitted it (according to The Independent). Added to that, the pretty undeniable bias shown during the show in the form of interruptions and counter-factual 'correction' Abbott.

Given the general incompetence of our political class, I do find it a bit dodgy that Abbott gets so much negative attention. So much so that I tend to agree that there is probably a large degree of (perhaps subconscious) racial bias inherent in the treatment she receives.

It's probably not just racial bias, I can imagine that there is sexual bias, and also class bias, a real toxic cocktail for her to endure on a daily basis.

p.s. in before police figures mistake - she was suffering a diabetic episode, and even so, we have plenty of (usually white wealthy male politicians) who've done much worse than get a simple sum wrong and not been the victim of such hate and scorn.

Zhivago wrote:The fact that the discussion here has automatically focused on Abbott and not Bruce just proves the point. It's disgusting.

You're turning into a caricature of the permanently offended snowflake millenial. As Numbers has already pointed out, you made this thread about Abbott, and now you complain that it's about her.

Perhaps PMTM was having a diabetic episode when she accidentally stood for leader of the Conservative party destined to take the UK out of the EU, when she is a remainer.

I think you and your kind like to point to Abbott's gender and race and use that as an excuse for the scorn that's poured on her for her ridiculous utterings, when white males like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Jones get just as much scorn for their bizarre ramblings. Perhaps they should develop diabetes too.

But that's the thing. Speak to people who do not follow politics actively and they're full of scorn for Corbyn, only know who McDonnell is because of a few newspaper utterings, and have no clue who Owen Jones is...and absolutely hate Diane Abbott...

It's insane. Really. If I said the names of the cabinet members and shadow cabinet members to a random person in the UK, they could probably recognise May, they probably heard a few of the other Tories' names, they'll know Corbyn and probably McDonnell, probably Starmer because they like to focus on Brexit, and Abbott. And the single politician they'll have the most to say about will be Abbott.

I understand she's not particularly competent as a front bench MP, but the hate directed at her is out of hand.

And OP, man the fuck up, Jesus. You framed the debate about Abbott, ffs.

And, actually, that's an interesting point, as the news about it does not give much mention to Bruce's performance as a whole, just in relation to Abbott again.

Stom wrote:The amount of hatred and ill-feeling towards Diane Abbott is not proportional to her mistakes, though...

She should absolutely be open to ridicule. As an individual promoted over her abilities, she makes stupid mistakes and is really open to hypocrisy claims.

BUT, so many people detest her. She has been turned into a character that represents everything that's "wrong" with the left. She's fat, she's a scrounger, she's a hypocrite...she's black, she's a woman...

She's non-conformist...

It's, frankly, disgusting. The way my father speaks about her makes me want to run away. And he's in the MAJORITY, not the minority.

The way she is portrayed in the media is despicable and I think it's something that desperately needs fixing. Corbyn doesn't even get the same treatment. I guess because, despite the fact he's a disgusting lefty, he's a conformist white male...

I think Corbyn's treatment is very comparable to Abbotts, certainly in the national media. Ive seen Abbott more on QT than Corbyn so she perhaps puts herself up as a target (as does anyone who takes part).

The hypocrisy element is fair game in my opinion.

Abbott is no great shakes as a front bench politician. She isnt terribly impressive in the House, or in the media. Shes not alone of course; the bulk of the front benches on both sides of the House are stuffed with low grade politicians.
However, its clear that being a black woman means she cops flak on a scale way beyond the level that almost anyone else gets.

Stom wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Zhivago wrote:I'm sure you've all followed this saga, of Fiona whipping up the Question Time audience with some anti-Diane Abbott jokes before the show... seems now the BBC has 'privately' admitted it (according to The Independent). Added to that, the pretty undeniable bias shown during the show in the form of interruptions and counter-factual 'correction' Abbott.

Given the general incompetence of our political class, I do find it a bit dodgy that Abbott gets so much negative attention. So much so that I tend to agree that there is probably a large degree of (perhaps subconscious) racial bias inherent in the treatment she receives.

It's probably not just racial bias, I can imagine that there is sexual bias, and also class bias, a real toxic cocktail for her to endure on a daily basis.

p.s. in before police figures mistake - she was suffering a diabetic episode, and even so, we have plenty of (usually white wealthy male politicians) who've done much worse than get a simple sum wrong and not been the victim of such hate and scorn.

Zhivago wrote:The fact that the discussion here has automatically focused on Abbott and not Bruce just proves the point. It's disgusting.

You're turning into a caricature of the permanently offended snowflake millenial. As Numbers has already pointed out, you made this thread about Abbott, and now you complain that it's about her.

Perhaps PMTM was having a diabetic episode when she accidentally stood for leader of the Conservative party destined to take the UK out of the EU, when she is a remainer.

I think you and your kind like to point to Abbott's gender and race and use that as an excuse for the scorn that's poured on her for her ridiculous utterings, when white males like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Jones get just as much scorn for their bizarre ramblings. Perhaps they should develop diabetes too.

But that's the thing. Speak to people who do not follow politics actively and they're full of scorn for Corbyn, only know who McDonnell is because of a few newspaper utterings, and have no clue who Owen Jones is...and absolutely hate Diane Abbott...

It's insane. Really. If I said the names of the cabinet members and shadow cabinet members to a random person in the UK, they could probably recognise May, they probably heard a few of the other Tories' names, they'll know Corbyn and probably McDonnell, probably Starmer because they like to focus on Brexit, and Abbott. And the single politician they'll have the most to say about will be Abbott.

I understand she's not particularly competent as a front bench MP, but the hate directed at her is out of hand.

And OP, man the fuck up, Jesus. You framed the debate about Abbott, ffs.

And, actually, that's an interesting point, as the news about it does not give much mention to Bruce's performance as a whole, just in relation to Abbott again.

Initial reviews on Bruce seemed pretty positive. Time will tell, it always feels a bit weird when a long standing presenter makes way for someone else.

Regarding your comparison over the public awareness of key lefties - Corbyn is well known because he is party leader so thats pretty obvious. McDonnell gives some interviews but will never be as well known as his leader is. Abbott is famous for that interview in the election. Whatever the reason, it was a car crash event by any standard and that sticks in people minds. Neil Kinnock falling on his arse at Blackpool was another event that stuck in peoples minds, or May's complete disaster at the crumbling Conservative Party Conference.

Stom wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Zhivago wrote:I'm sure you've all followed this saga, of Fiona whipping up the Question Time audience with some anti-Diane Abbott jokes before the show... seems now the BBC has 'privately' admitted it (according to The Independent). Added to that, the pretty undeniable bias shown during the show in the form of interruptions and counter-factual 'correction' Abbott.

Given the general incompetence of our political class, I do find it a bit dodgy that Abbott gets so much negative attention. So much so that I tend to agree that there is probably a large degree of (perhaps subconscious) racial bias inherent in the treatment she receives.

It's probably not just racial bias, I can imagine that there is sexual bias, and also class bias, a real toxic cocktail for her to endure on a daily basis.

p.s. in before police figures mistake - she was suffering a diabetic episode, and even so, we have plenty of (usually white wealthy male politicians) who've done much worse than get a simple sum wrong and not been the victim of such hate and scorn.

Zhivago wrote:The fact that the discussion here has automatically focused on Abbott and not Bruce just proves the point. It's disgusting.

You're turning into a caricature of the permanently offended snowflake millenial. As Numbers has already pointed out, you made this thread about Abbott, and now you complain that it's about her.

Perhaps PMTM was having a diabetic episode when she accidentally stood for leader of the Conservative party destined to take the UK out of the EU, when she is a remainer.

I think you and your kind like to point to Abbott's gender and race and use that as an excuse for the scorn that's poured on her for her ridiculous utterings, when white males like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Jones get just as much scorn for their bizarre ramblings. Perhaps they should develop diabetes too.

But that's the thing. Speak to people who do not follow politics actively and they're full of scorn for Corbyn, only know who McDonnell is because of a few newspaper utterings, and have no clue who Owen Jones is...and absolutely hate Diane Abbott...

It's insane. Really. If I said the names of the cabinet members and shadow cabinet members to a random person in the UK, they could probably recognise May, they probably heard a few of the other Tories' names, they'll know Corbyn and probably McDonnell, probably Starmer because they like to focus on Brexit, and Abbott. And the single politician they'll have the most to say about will be Abbott.

I understand she's not particularly competent as a front bench MP, but the hate directed at her is out of hand.

And OP, man the fuck up, Jesus. You framed the debate about Abbott, ffs.

And, actually, that's an interesting point, as the news about it does not give much mention to Bruce's performance as a whole, just in relation to Abbott again.

You clearly mix in different circles to me. Most of the people I know have equal contempt for Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott. You're right that fewer have much idea who have Jones is, however, those who do probably display even more vitriol for him than the other three, despite almost certainly being Guardian readers (otherwise they would be just as much in the dark as the others).

If there is, as you say, widespread hate for Abbott (and I'm not seeing it), then it is likely as much to do with her patronising attitude as anything else. She appears to believe that she operates on a higher intellectual plane than everyone else, which justifies her being in transmit-only mode the whole time as no-one else has got anything to say that is worth hearing. Not unlike Jones, actually.

Coming back to Fiona Bruce, (sorry Zhivago, I know you wanted to talk about the victimisation of St. Dianne), I was expecting her to be a bit of a wet-lettuce on QT, but I think she's doing a decent enough job especially as she's only been in it a few weeks. She'll grow into it.

It's actually quite refreshing hearing the left bleat about QT for a change, it's using the right bleating about how the BBC stack the audience with left-wingers.

Digby wrote:I didn't realise we should focus on the BBC rather than the politicians, focusing on Auntie seems to be putting things in the wrong order

Fwiw if there weren't jokes on the night at the expense of little Ronnie Wood, or Rory Stewart as he's oddly asking to be called, there soon will be when he has to follow through on his promise to resign when he's making no progress with the prisons

Actually if the Conservatives are still in power there's a decent chance they move him to avoid him having totake a hit in public. Or maybe they let little Ronnie take the hit to show they understand sacrifice with the quid pro quo of him getting a better job in the near future

To those of you upset at the above mocking of little Ronnie's appearance you're probably the same spineless bastards getting offended at people mocking the Glorious Leader giving a job to Abbot that she's not up to simply because he was accidentally fucking her whilst married to somebody else. In which case I sincerely offer not the slightest apology

Wee Rory is a strange one and no mistake. I understand that he is very highly thought of by those who worked with him before he became a politician, and he certainly says the right things to appear a man of conviction, in which case I fear he has no future in politics.

Does anyone remember the GE of 2015 and this quote?

"We will bring a heart to a Conservative Government and a brain to a Labour one."

It still makes me laugh now.

Stones of granite wrote:Does anyone remember the GE of 2015 and this quote?

"We will bring a heart to a Conservative Government and a brain to a Labour one."

It still makes me laugh now.

Laugh? I want to cry. It was the Lib Dem’s brainless and heartless decision to triple student fees and be the bearer of all governmental bad news for 5 years that ensured we ended up with a government who had to put a badly worded referendum to the general mince ( sorry, public)

Numbers wrote:

Zhivago wrote:The fact that the discussion here has automatically focused on Abbott and not Bruce just proves the point. It's disgusting.

TBF you did highlight the comments made about Abbott and then go on to analyse the public perception of her so you've sort of led the conversation down that path really, so you should include yourself in your last comment.

Maybe so. Anyway my initial point was aimed more at the fact that the audience was primed against certain panel members appearing on the show. If that isn't clear bias, then I don't know what is.

Zhivago wrote:

Numbers wrote:

Zhivago wrote:The fact that the discussion here has automatically focused on Abbott and not Bruce just proves the point. It's disgusting.

TBF you did highlight the comments made about Abbott and then go on to analyse the public perception of her so you've sort of led the conversation down that path really, so you should include yourself in your last comment.

Maybe so. Anyway my initial point was aimed more at the fact that the audience was primed against certain panel members appearing on the show. If that isn't clear bias, then I don't know what is.

If the Labour party insists on sending lunatics, or their front bench if one cares about the niceties, then yes people will tend to be biased against them. The problem is not the biased audience

Digby wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Numbers wrote:
TBF you did highlight the comments made about Abbott and then go on to analyse the public perception of her so you've sort of led the conversation down that path really, so you should include yourself in your last comment.

Maybe so. Anyway my initial point was aimed more at the fact that the audience was primed against certain panel members appearing on the show. If that isn't clear bias, then I don't know what is.

If the Labour party insists on sending lunatics, or their front bench if one cares about the niceties, then yes people will tend to be biased against them. The problem is not the biased audience

Wow

Digby wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Numbers wrote:
TBF you did highlight the comments made about Abbott and then go on to analyse the public perception of her so you've sort of led the conversation down that path really, so you should include yourself in your last comment.

Maybe so. Anyway my initial point was aimed more at the fact that the audience was primed against certain panel members appearing on the show. If that isn't clear bias, then I don't know what is.

If the Labour party insists on sending lunatics, or their front bench if one cares about the niceties, then yes people will tend to be biased against them. The problem is not the biased audience

The media take the piss because she is incompetent. If she were pulling up trees on a daily basis, and it shouldn’t be that hard to find something to beat the government with at the moment, then it would only the the actual racists who would have a problem.

Genuine question, as I don't know - what things has Diane Abbott actually done wrong? I know about the car crash interview before the election where she screwed up the numbers, but I don't actually know what other occasions she has made mistakes to be deemed incompetent.

Puja

Puja wrote:Genuine question, as I don't know - what things has Diane Abbott actually done wrong? I know about the car crash interview before the election where she screwed up the numbers, but I don't actually know what other occasions she has made mistakes to be deemed incompetent.

Puja

She doesn't need to make mistakes to be incompetent, making Piers Morgan look reasonable and intelligent is bad enough. Given an open-goal on the Windrush Scandal, she somehow managed to put the ball in her own net here.


She also has a strange relationship with terrorist organisations. Although the "every defeat for the British State is a victory for all of us" statement may be have been made when she had a "splendid afro", her views don't seem to have changed much although she seems to have more of a soft-spot for Islamic terrorists than Irish ones now.


She manages to make her old mucker (and schoolchum) Michael Portillo cringe with embarrassment.


Of course, none of these things are disastrous for a Labour backbencher, but they're not a great indicator for a potential Home Secretary.

Oh Portillos face speaks a thousand words.