RugbyRebels

Wasps: Le Roux; Watson, Daly, Lovobalavu, Bassett; Sopoaga, Simpson; Zhvania, Johnson (capt), Brookes, Rowlands, Myall, Shields, Carr, Hughes.

Replacements: Cruse, McIntyre, Cooper-Woolley, Matthews, Morris, Hampson, Gopperth, de Jongh.

Saracens: Goode; Strettle, Lozowski, Tompkins, Williams; Farrell (capt), Spencer; M Vunipola, George, Lamositele, Itoje, Kruis, Rhodes, Clark, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Gray, Barrington, Koch, Skelton, Burger, Taylor, Morris, Lewington.

If Spencer is not Jones's first choice 9, he should be.

Sarries look menacing.

Saracens largely in 2nd gear still far too good for Wasps.

Spencer again very good.

fivepointer wrote:Saracens largely in 2nd gear still far too good for Wasps.

Spencer again very good.

getting a decent run in a strong team likely has helped a tad.

fivepointer wrote:Saracens largely in 2nd gear still far too good for Wasps.

Spencer again very good.

Apprenticeships at Saracens can be long affairs, such as that of Jamie George, but both Spencer and Tompkins are becoming good players.

Tompkins is a cracker of a player. Reminds me a lot of Frazer Waters.

p/d wrote:Tompkins is a cracker of a player. Reminds me a lot of Frazer Waters.

Well they have quite similar physiques according to the stats, but they play very differently from what I see/remember. Waters always struck me as a classic o/c with his defensive play and passing skills, Tompkins seems more at home as a running and gainline midfielder.

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:Tompkins is a cracker of a player. Reminds me a lot of Frazer Waters.

Well they have quite similar physiques according to the stats, but they play very differently from what I see/remember. Waters always struck me as a classic o/c with his defensive play and passing skills, Tompkins seems more at home as a running and gainline midfielder.

What should one infer from gainline midfielder?

CONVEX HULL wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Saracens largely in 2nd gear still far too good for Wasps.

Spencer again very good.

Apprenticeships at Saracens can be long affairs, such as that of Jamie George, but both Spencer and Tompkins are becoming good players.

I do worry slightly that Sarries will spend the Wigglesworth retirement dividend money on one of the world's best 9s, thus relegating Spencer back to 2nd choice again

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:Tompkins is a cracker of a player. Reminds me a lot of Frazer Waters.

Well they have quite similar physiques according to the stats, but they play very differently from what I see/remember. Waters always struck me as a classic o/c with his defensive play and passing skills, Tompkins seems more at home as a running and gainline midfielder.

What should one infer from gainline midfielder?

whatever you choose- what do YOU infer.

Just watched the highlights of this and "very much in the mould of Brad Barritt" is what one commentator said. Wouldn't have thought so, but okay.

Also did Farrell go off injured? I literally didn't see him or hear his name in those 4 minutes.

IMO he's not as defensively solid as Barritt (who is?) but he's a better runner. I like him - good all round centre

TheNomad wrote:IMO he's not as defensively solid as Barritt (who is?) but he's a better runner. I like him - good all round centre

Yeah. Tell me the name of a player who isn't both of those things.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Well they have quite similar physiques according to the stats, but they play very differently from what I see/remember. Waters always struck me as a classic o/c with his defensive play and passing skills, Tompkins seems more at home as a running and gainline midfielder.

What should one infer from gainline midfielder?

whatever you choose- what do YOU infer.

Someone who carries over the gainline or tackles people back behind the gainline, which also fits into how his club play, it just doesn't really describe this player much.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
What should one infer from gainline midfielder?

whatever you choose- what do YOU infer.

Someone who carries over the gainline or tackles people back behind the gainline, which also fits into how his club play, it just doesn't really describe this player much.

Welcome your insight, but the game he played on Saturday was very much the former.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: whatever you choose- what do YOU infer.

Someone who carries over the gainline or tackles people back behind the gainline, which also fits into how his club play, it just doesn't really describe this player much.

Welcome your insight, but the game he played on Saturday was very much the former.

I'll try and watch the game.

Why was he able to carry effectively? As I'd add the rider a gainline player can carry up over the gainline of their own accord and not simply because the inside play has narrowed a defence or left too much space to cover

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
Someone who carries over the gainline or tackles people back behind the gainline, which also fits into how his club play, it just doesn't really describe this player much.

Welcome your insight, but the game he played on Saturday was very much the former.

I'll try and watch the game.

Why was he able to carry effectively? As I'd add the rider a gainline player can carry up over the gainline of their own accord and not simply because the inside play has narrowed a defence or left too much space to cover

He was getting over the gainline regularly off 1st phase from 12, he wasn't being gifted it; he just strikes me as a good hard running centre, more about the run than the creation for others. And that applies when I've seen him at 13 as well. Albeit not that much, given who the first choice centres appear to be.

He certainly looks to run, but so will (can) Lozowski, Bosch and Barritt, and they can all do a job but it's never occurred they dominate the gainline. Mind the obvious escapes me from time to time

Digby wrote:He certainly looks to run, but so will (can) Lozowski, Bosch and Barritt, and they can all do a job but it's never occurred they dominate the gainline. Mind the obvious escapes me from time to time

I didn't say dominate, but his purpose seems at the moment, and he's having success, to get over the tackle line and thence hopefully the gainline via route 1 and a bit of a step and some footwork. He's certainly more direct than Loz or Bosch tend to be, but then they are wider out and do it a different way. i'm not sure what you are quibbling about tbh, but no change there I guess.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:He certainly looks to run, but so will (can) Lozowski, Bosch and Barritt, and they can all do a job but it's never occurred they dominate the gainline. Mind the obvious escapes me from time to time

I didn't say dominate, but his purpose seems at the moment, and he's having success, to get over the tackle line and thence hopefully the gainline via route 1 and a bit of a step and some footwork. He's certainly more direct than Loz or Bosch tend to be, but then they are wider out and do it a different way. i'm not sure what you are quibbling about tbh, but no change there I guess.

If you go over the gainline you dominate it, or is there a different distinction to use? And the higher the standard of player the more that gainline dominance matters, by late season Heineken Cup it's probably around three quarters of games are won by the team who wins at the gainline, it's possibly the biggest identifier of a winning team, which I ignore in criticism of Gatland and Jones

And I should watch the game to see what's being got at here, or seeing as it's you, gotten at

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:He certainly looks to run, but so will (can) Lozowski, Bosch and Barritt, and they can all do a job but it's never occurred they dominate the gainline. Mind the obvious escapes me from time to time

I didn't say dominate, but his purpose seems at the moment, and he's having success, to get over the tackle line and thence hopefully the gainline via route 1 and a bit of a step and some footwork. He's certainly more direct than Loz or Bosch tend to be, but then they are wider out and do it a different way. i'm not sure what you are quibbling about tbh, but no change there I guess.

If you go over the gainline you dominate it, or is there a different distinction to use? And the higher the standard of player the more that gainline dominance matters, by late season Heineken Cup it's probably around three quarters of games are won by the team who wins at the gainline, it's possibly the biggest identifier of a winning team, which I ignore in criticism of Gatland and Jones

And I should watch the game to see what's being got at here, or seeing as it's you, gotten at

Pedants are indeed revolting.