Re: Transfer information, speculation, fabrication, and figments of imagination - Season 2018/19
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:35 am
......Like Coventry City Fc....Puja wrote:Not sure what to make of this. On the one hand, anything which could restructure the board is a definite win, but on the other, I'm not keen about interest drummed up by the CVC sale, as I'm not sure I want us owned by someone who sees us as a vehicle to squeeze money out of. There is a chance we could end up being owned by someone like SISU, with similar results.
Puja
Most of those losses and 100% of the debt have been due to capital investment in upgrading the stadium, facilities, and the parking and hotel on site. They should turn a profit this year and the debt is gone with the CVC cash.Banquo wrote:They seem to have made an operating loss of between 400k and £1m year on year for three years, with worsening cash flow and £17m of debt according to the last annual report.
I get the debt position from what you've stated, but not the operating loss, though there is a chunk of depreciation; why would they turn a profit this FY, unless their income is up/wages markedly down. Their cash position would hopefully improve. But obviously an ideal time for Toms/shareholders to get himself bought out.Puja wrote:Most of those losses and 100% of the debt have been due to capital investment in upgrading the stadium, facilities, and the parking and hotel on site. They should turn a profit this year and the debt is gone with the CVC cash.Banquo wrote:They seem to have made an operating loss of between 400k and £1m year on year for three years, with worsening cash flow and £17m of debt according to the last annual report.
Puja
Costs will be down cause they're not spending money on construction. Plus, income up as they have completed stadium and infrastructure and can utilise them fully.Banquo wrote:I get the debt position from what you've stated, but not the operating loss, though there is a chunk of depreciation; why would they turn a profit this FY, unless their income is up/wages markedly down. Their cash position would hopefully improve. But obviously an ideal time for Toms/shareholders to get himself bought out.Puja wrote:Most of those losses and 100% of the debt have been due to capital investment in upgrading the stadium, facilities, and the parking and hotel on site. They should turn a profit this year and the debt is gone with the CVC cash.Banquo wrote:They seem to have made an operating loss of between 400k and £1m year on year for three years, with worsening cash flow and £17m of debt according to the last annual report.
Puja
edit- as Tigersman says...
Construction costs would/should likely be capex and not in the operating costs. They'd have to boost their income substantially and reduce their wage bill to break even, even. Hard work, and likely why current team want to sell.Puja wrote:Costs will be down cause they're not spending money on construction. Plus, income up as they have completed stadium and infrastructure and can utilise them fully.Banquo wrote:I get the debt position from what you've stated, but not the operating loss, though there is a chunk of depreciation; why would they turn a profit this FY, unless their income is up/wages markedly down. Their cash position would hopefully improve. But obviously an ideal time for Toms/shareholders to get himself bought out.Puja wrote:
Most of those losses and 100% of the debt have been due to capital investment in upgrading the stadium, facilities, and the parking and hotel on site. They should turn a profit this year and the debt is gone with the CVC cash.
Puja
edit- as Tigersman says...
Mind, when I say I expect them to turn a profit next year, I'm talking about effectively breaking even levels, rather than making massive returns to investors. As Mells notes, a rugby club will never be a money-making enterprise.
Puja
Indeed, and when they talk about debt being gone it might not be gone in the sense that debt is gone, I think the quote here talked of net debt and that can of course be offset, so they could be carrying rather a large amount of debtBanquo wrote:Construction costs would/should likely be capex and not in the operating costs. They'd have to boost their income substantially and reduce their wage bill to break even, even. Hard work, and likely why current team want to sell.Puja wrote:Costs will be down cause they're not spending money on construction. Plus, income up as they have completed stadium and infrastructure and can utilise them fully.Banquo wrote: I get the debt position from what you've stated, but not the operating loss, though there is a chunk of depreciation; why would they turn a profit this FY, unless their income is up/wages markedly down. Their cash position would hopefully improve. But obviously an ideal time for Toms/shareholders to get himself bought out.
edit- as Tigersman says...
Mind, when I say I expect them to turn a profit next year, I'm talking about effectively breaking even levels, rather than making massive returns to investors. As Mells notes, a rugby club will never be a money-making enterprise.
Puja
I have heard of the Leicester defender, I did not know he'd been soldtwitchy wrote:Rugby vs football
The published debt, including long term was 16 m in 17/18 accounts, but could easily be more now. They look like they got 17m from the CVC deal, whether they use that to pay off loans will be interesting, though suspect they wouldn't.Digby wrote:Indeed, and when they talk about debt being gone it might not be gone in the sense that debt is gone, I think the quote here talked of net debt and that can of course be offset, so they could be carrying rather a large amount of debtBanquo wrote:Construction costs would/should likely be capex and not in the operating costs. They'd have to boost their income substantially and reduce their wage bill to break even, even. Hard work, and likely why current team want to sell.Puja wrote:
Costs will be down cause they're not spending money on construction. Plus, income up as they have completed stadium and infrastructure and can utilise them fully.
Mind, when I say I expect them to turn a profit next year, I'm talking about effectively breaking even levels, rather than making massive returns to investors. As Mells notes, a rugby club will never be a money-making enterprise.
Puja
You could easily park that money from CVC for an accounting period and cite net debt is down to zero, not that that wouldn't be obvious under due diligence, unless maybe Chris Grayling is in charge of the reviewBanquo wrote:The published debt, including long term was 16 m in 17/18 accounts, but could easily be more now. They look like they got 17m from the CVC deal, whether they use that to pay off loans will be interesting, though suspect they wouldn't.Digby wrote:Indeed, and when they talk about debt being gone it might not be gone in the sense that debt is gone, I think the quote here talked of net debt and that can of course be offset, so they could be carrying rather a large amount of debtBanquo wrote: Construction costs would/should likely be capex and not in the operating costs. They'd have to boost their income substantially and reduce their wage bill to break even, even. Hard work, and likely why current team want to sell.
That's exactly what they seem to be saying, and obviously many have fallen for it. Its all about a nice cash rich exit for current investors imoDigby wrote:You could easily park that money from CVC for an accounting period and cite net debt is down to zero, not that that wouldn't be obvious under due diligence, unless maybe Chris Grayling is in charge of the reviewBanquo wrote:The published debt, including long term was 16 m in 17/18 accounts, but could easily be more now. They look like they got 17m from the CVC deal, whether they use that to pay off loans will be interesting, though suspect they wouldn't.Digby wrote:
Indeed, and when they talk about debt being gone it might not be gone in the sense that debt is gone, I think the quote here talked of net debt and that can of course be offset, so they could be carrying rather a large amount of debt