RugbyRebels

Have been away on holiday this week, so no minute-by-minute for you. However, rewatched it paying attention to a few first impressions that I made live and have come to a few conclusions.

Firstly, while Watson's two high ball takes were excellent, he is far too good a defensive winger for England's system to be moved to full-back. England's rush defence has a weakness to being outflanked and left short of numbers out wide, but Watson's speed, decision-making, and positional sense meant that Wales never looked like getting around us on his wing. On three occasions as well, he rushed up to kill an overlap and every time caught them man-and-ball. Before rewatching, I was all for Watson at full-back, but he's just too vital to our wing play to move.

Secondly, I maligned Piers Francis in my comments at the time. He didn't do anything spectacular, but he made his tackles, made good decisions in both defence and attack, and was a quietly effective pivot for the rest of the backline. I'd like to see more, but it was a very solid performance and we've seen a lot worse from England 12s. Should 100% have been taken off for an HIA when he was ***clearly knocked unconscious*** but apparently caring about concussions is a sometimes food.

I didn't overly malign Genge or Williams though. Genge had a good run in the opening minutes, but offered nothing ball in hand after that (one time where he had a huge hole and dropped a simple pass as well). He made a lot of tackles, but also rushed up twice and missed, leaving a hole that Wales exploited both times. Williams was... basically, all he had to do was beat Cole's 3 important rucks, 3 tackles, no carries, 1 stupid penalty in order to get on the plane. Cole did nothing; he just had to be better than nothing to succeed. One vital and completely crap missed tackle that led to a try (not even stepped in the loose where you'd forgive him, just went low and weakly against a pick and drive and got walked over), one crap carry where he was turned over, one high tackle which was somehow not pinged, one set of hands on knees breathing heavily after having only been on 10 minutes, and two lots of egregious ruck inspection. Couple of decent tackles and a pop off the floor, but he won the hard-fought battle to be the crappest Sinckler backup.

Heinz was very impressive. I counted 11 gorgeous passes from him - a reasonable distance, picking the right man, just in front of his hands, at speed - compared to two errors, which is a better strike rate than we get from Youngs oftimes. If he can back that up, there's a reasonable claim that he should be our starting 9. Only 2 box-kicks that I counted though (possible I missed some as I wasn't paying overly attention to them). They were both good though.

Finally, in the "Can Ford be trusted to tackle at 10" argument, he made 9 very good tackles that stopped players on the gainline or just after. There were 3 iffy ones - one where he got stepped in a kick chase early on, one where he did stop the man but with a shoulder that I would've bagged Fazlet for, and the one where Davies handed him off. Again, I've seen far worse defensive displays from an England fly-half, most notably from Farrell. He wasn't noticeably hidden in the backline either - mostly defended at 10.

Also, the LCD pass to Youngs for the last try does leave his hands backwards - I can't necessarily blame the TMO or ref for not giving it as it was very close, but I do blame Barnes and the commentators for not having a rudimentary understanding of either the laws of rugby or the laws of physics. Thank god tomorrow is on Channel 4.

Puja

Good stuff.

Have to say, the more I see of Piers Francis at 12 the moe I like. He’s a really good, intelligent rugby player. Nice skill set, and has a decent turn of pace. Question mark over his raw physicality in that channel, as it can be pretty confrontational in there at times. But he’s definitely been unfairly maligned, and gives us a genuine ‘footballing’ option at 12.

I think Francis is one of the most underrated players/centres in the Prem. He rarely does anything eye catching or flashy, but certainly at Saints you notice when he's not playing. He seems to be one of those players who just facilitates the plays and creates space with his good decision making and execution of basic skills. He is also very good at organising the defence, and personally hits above his weight. The only issue really is that he seems very injury prone, especially with head injuries - which is concerning. I really wasnt sold when Saints brought him over as a 10, but now he's playing in his correct position at 12 I think he's very good.

I thinknhis main problem was that he was imported and straight into the England team when he shouldn't have been (see Shields) which put peoples backs up.
And we all know that once people have made their minds up, they become rather difficult to change.

Interesting what you said about Watson. It may be totally out of date, or just flat-out wrong, but it was always my opinion previously (when he was paired with Daly or Nowell on the wing) that he was an incredible finishing talent, good under the high ball, but utter garbage at making those exact decisions you talk about in defence. While Daly was fantastic at it despite having no experience there.

Maybe he’s improved or maybe I was basing that on one game but it’s good to read. I certainly didn’t notice much to complain about from him on Sunday.

It’s near enough how I feel about Daly at 15 now and hoped that 15 would be more natural for Watson, also allowing him to come into that 13 channel more freely.

Are you happy with Daly at 15 now based on Watson’s defensive performance on the wing?

I have only watched a few bits again. That wonderful Tuilagi break left me wishing the guy had a step to his left. It's not his thing and we take him as he is obviously but the gap was there to break left and go under the posts even with half the Welsh team around him.

Mikey Brown wrote:Interesting what you said about Watson. It may be totally out of date, or just flat-out wrong, but it was always my opinion previously (when he was paired with Daly or Nowell on the wing) that he was an incredible finishing talent, good under the high ball, but utter garbage at making those exact decisions you talk about in defence. While Daly was fantastic at it despite having no experience there.

Maybe he’s improved or maybe I was basing that on one game but it’s good to read. I certainly didn’t notice much to complain about from him on Sunday.

It’s near enough how I feel about Daly at 15 now and hoped that 15 would be more natural for Watson, also allowing him to come into that 13 channel more freely.

Are you happy with Daly at 15 now based on Watson’s defensive performance on the wing?

It's possible Watson just had a flukey one good game in defence, but he did get everything right. I wouldn't say I was exactly *happy* with Daly at 15, but I can see the advantages and it appears to be what we're stuck with, so let's just hope his disadvantages aren't too brutally exposed in the RWC.

He didn't drop a single high ball, which is good, although he was never put under pressure.

Puja

Adam_P wrote:I think Francis is one of the most underrated players/centres in the Prem. He rarely does anything eye catching or flashy, but certainly at Saints you notice when he's not playing. He seems to be one of those players who just facilitates the plays and creates space with his good decision making and execution of basic skills. He is also very good at organising the defence, and personally hits above his weight. The only issue really is that he seems very injury prone, especially with head injuries - which is concerning. I really wasnt sold when Saints brought him over as a 10, but now he's playing in his correct position at 12 I think he's very good.

Yep. I watched pretty much all of Saints’ televised games last season and I’d agree with that assessment of Francis. Perhaps not spectacular, but he’s solid in defence, reads the game well and is good foil for the likes of Hutchison. If he goes well again today, I think he’ll have justified his selection ahead of Te’o and I’m perfectly happy for him to start against Tonga and the USA.

Which Tyler wrote:I thinknhis main problem was that he was imported and straight into the England team when he shouldn't have been (see Shields) which put peoples backs up.
And we all know that once people have made their minds up, they become rather difficult to change.

Absolutely yes.

His defence wasn't up to scratch when he first played for England and his attacking play seemed nothing special.

Now, he looks like a very good bits and pieces player. Which is something we need.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Interesting what you said about Watson. It may be totally out of date, or just flat-out wrong, but it was always my opinion previously (when he was paired with Daly or Nowell on the wing) that he was an incredible finishing talent, good under the high ball, but utter garbage at making those exact decisions you talk about in defence. While Daly was fantastic at it despite having no experience there.

Maybe he’s improved or maybe I was basing that on one game but it’s good to read. I certainly didn’t notice much to complain about from him on Sunday.

It’s near enough how I feel about Daly at 15 now and hoped that 15 would be more natural for Watson, also allowing him to come into that 13 channel more freely.

Are you happy with Daly at 15 now based on Watson’s defensive performance on the wing?

It's possible Watson just had a flukey one good game in defence, but he did get everything right. I wouldn't say I was exactly *happy* with Daly at 15, but I can see the advantages and it appears to be what we're stuck with, so let's just hope his disadvantages aren't too brutally exposed in the RWC.

He didn't drop a single high ball, which is good, although he was never put under pressure.

Puja

It is important to note he had Joseph inside him, probably the best defensive organizer.

Wouldn’t he have had Joseph at 13 pretty much all
the time?

Mikey Brown wrote:Wouldn’t he have had Joseph at 13 pretty much all
the time?

different defence coach then. Different defence anyway with Faz not playing

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Interesting what you said about Watson. It may be totally out of date, or just flat-out wrong, but it was always my opinion previously (when he was paired with Daly or Nowell on the wing) that he was an incredible finishing talent, good under the high ball, but utter garbage at making those exact decisions you talk about in defence. While Daly was fantastic at it despite having no experience there.

Maybe he’s improved or maybe I was basing that on one game but it’s good to read. I certainly didn’t notice much to complain about from him on Sunday.

It’s near enough how I feel about Daly at 15 now and hoped that 15 would be more natural for Watson, also allowing him to come into that 13 channel more freely.

Are you happy with Daly at 15 now based on Watson’s defensive performance on the wing?

It's possible Watson just had a flukey one good game in defence, but he did get everything right.

And, on cue, he screwed up two of them today.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Interesting what you said about Watson. It may be totally out of date, or just flat-out wrong, but it was always my opinion previously (when he was paired with Daly or Nowell on the wing) that he was an incredible finishing talent, good under the high ball, but utter garbage at making those exact decisions you talk about in defence. While Daly was fantastic at it despite having no experience there.

Maybe he’s improved or maybe I was basing that on one game but it’s good to read. I certainly didn’t notice much to complain about from him on Sunday.

It’s near enough how I feel about Daly at 15 now and hoped that 15 would be more natural for Watson, also allowing him to come into that 13 channel more freely.

Are you happy with Daly at 15 now based on Watson’s defensive performance on the wing?

It's possible Watson just had a flukey one good game in defence, but he did get everything right.

And, on cue, he screwed up two of them today.

Puja

Fraid so, including a yellow. But looked sharp ball in hand and under the high ball.