RugbyRebels

OK, here we go again. Just to give us all a fair reference point when accusing each other of plundering the South Seas/importing a bunch of 2nd div journeymen etc. this thread will record all RWC players born in a country other than that which they are representing.

To begin with I will not be including any mitigating information (moved here when he was 3, his father was a soldier there, etc etc) or method of qualification (ancestry v residence), but others should feel free to add that stuff in as we go.

For ease of reference, I'll keep an updated scoreboard here:
Tonga: 17
Japan: 16
Samoa: 16
USA: 15
Scotland: 14
Australia: 12
Italy: 8
Wales: 8
Overall mean: 6.9
England: 6
France: 6
Median: 5.5
Ireland: 5
Canada: 4
Fiji: 4
New Zealand: 3
Georgia: 1
Namibia: 1
Russia: 1
South Africa: 1
Argentina: 0
Uruguay: 0

First up...

Australia: 12 poached players (38.7% non-dinkum)

4 Fijians (Samuela Kerevi, Marika Koroibete, Tevita Kuridrani, Isi Naisarani)
3 New Zealanders (Christian Leali'ifano, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Jordan Uelese)
2 Tongans (Tolu Latu, Taniela Tupou)
1 Papua New Guinean (Will Genia)
1 South African (Dane Haylett-Petty)
1 Zimbabwean (David Pocock

To be a true reference thread, we also need to know when they moved, and how they qualify (residence, 2 parents, 1 dodgy granny)

Italy: 8 poached players (25.8% not-a like-a mamma makes back home)

2 Englishmen (Calum Brayley, Jack Polledri)
2 New Zealanders (Dean Budd, Jayden Hayward)
1 Argentinean (Sergio Parisse)
1 German (David Sisi)
1 South African (Braam Steyn)
1 Zimbabwean (Sebastian Negri)

Which Tyler wrote:To be a true reference thread, we also need to know when they moved, and how they qualify (residence, 2 parents, 1 dodgy granny)

I'm just laying the ground work. Feel free to add further information in mitigation or vilification.

England: 6 poached players (19.4% Johnny Foreigner)

2 New Zealanders (Willi Heinz, Mako Vunipola)
1 Australian (Billy Vunipola)
1 American (Sam Underhill)
1 Fijian (Joe Cokanasiga)
1 Samoan (Manu Tuilagi)

Argentina: 0 poached players (0.0% gringo)

N/A

Fiji: 4 Poached players (12.9% vāvālagi)

2 Australians (Campese Ma'afu, Ben Volavola)
2 Englishman (Josh Matavesi, Sam Matavesi)

(Info is incomplete on Tuvere Veremalua and Eroni Mawi, but I'll assume they're homegrown)

Lizard wrote:England: 6 poached players (19.4% Johnny Foreigner)

2 New Zealanders (Willi Heinz, Mako Vunipola)
1 Australian (Billy Vunipola)
1 American (Sam Underhill)
1 Fijian (Joe Cokanasiga)
1 Samoan (Manu Tuilagi)

As I mentioned on the EMB, I'm actually feeling very pleased with the current England squad, as there's only one of them that didn't emigrate as a child and is a definite genuine poach - Heinz (and even he has a gran and three years in the country). No Te'o, no Hughes, no Mike Williams, no Mitch Lees; it could've been a lot worse given Eddie's previous selections.

Puja

I still cannot believe that Heinz Baked Beans is the meal of choice at halfback. That's not a poach, that's a shot in the foot.

morepork wrote:I still cannot believe that Heinz Baked Beans is the meal of choice at halfback. That's not a poach, that's a shot in the foot.

Ask me three weeks ago and I'd've agreed that 57Varieties was a stupid callup, but I'm warming to it. England's game plan doesn't require much decision-making or attacking verve from the scrum-half, just decent, solid service and a good box kick. He might not be much, but he's a decent enough pick if you just want to get the ball out and nothing more.

Puja

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:I still cannot believe that Heinz Baked Beans is the meal of choice at halfback. That's not a poach, that's a shot in the foot.

Ask me three weeks ago and I'd've agreed that 57Varieties was a stupid callup, but I'm warming to it. England's game plan doesn't require much decision-making or attacking verve from the scrum-half, just decent, solid service and a good box kick. He might not be much, but he's a decent enough pick if you just want to get the ball out and nothing more.

Puja

What does it say about us we've looked at 9s across the world and said who could be the most like Greg Laidlaw without the experience?

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:I still cannot believe that Heinz Baked Beans is the meal of choice at halfback. That's not a poach, that's a shot in the foot.

Ask me three weeks ago and I'd've agreed that 57Varieties was a stupid callup, but I'm warming to it. England's game plan doesn't require much decision-making or attacking verve from the scrum-half, just decent, solid service and a good box kick. He might not be much, but he's a decent enough pick if you just want to get the ball out and nothing more.

Puja

What does it say about us we've looked at 9s across the world and said who could be the most like Greg Laidlaw without the experience?

That we've resigned ourselves to the national paucity of 9s and have decided to run with a gameplan that doesn't require the scrum-half to do much that is vital?

It's the s/h equivalent of the attacking moves that we used to have under Johnson, where we just flung miss-passes straight to the wing, by-passing Tindall and Hape altogether.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
Ask me three weeks ago and I'd've agreed that 57Varieties was a stupid callup, but I'm warming to it. England's game plan doesn't require much decision-making or attacking verve from the scrum-half, just decent, solid service and a good box kick. He might not be much, but he's a decent enough pick if you just want to get the ball out and nothing more.

Puja

What does it say about us we've looked at 9s across the world and said who could be the most like Greg Laidlaw without the experience?

That we've resigned ourselves to the national paucity of 9s and have decided to run with a gameplan that doesn't require the scrum-half to do much that is vital?

It's the s/h equivalent of the attacking moves that we used to have under Johnson, where we just flung miss-passes straight to the wing, by-passing Tindall and Hape altogether.

Puja

(a) I don't want to try and ape anything that didn't work before because it wasn't a good idea then or now, and (b) we don't quite know if we do suffer a paucity, we've rather refused to look, and (c) the good 9s can put pace onto the game even when you're under pressure, if we can be held on 1st phase and teams catch our kicks we've got some problems on attack.

Puja wrote:

Lizard wrote:England: 6 poached players (19.4% Johnny Foreigner)

2 New Zealanders (Willi Heinz, Mako Vunipola)
1 Australian (Billy Vunipola)
1 American (Sam Underhill)
1 Fijian (Joe Cokanasiga)
1 Samoan (Manu Tuilagi)

As I mentioned on the EMB, I'm actually feeling very pleased with the current England squad, as there's only one of them that didn't emigrate as a child and is a definite genuine poach - Heinz (and even he has a gran and three years in the country). No Te'o, no Hughes, no Mike Williams, no Mitch Lees; it could've been a lot worse given Eddie's previous selections.

Puja

I was a bit surprised, too. No doubt England’s ratios will change though because there is no way you’ll get through a whole tournament with Tuilagi and the Vunipolas intact.

Lizard wrote:

Puja wrote:

Lizard wrote:England: 6 poached players (19.4% Johnny Foreigner)

2 New Zealanders (Willi Heinz, Mako Vunipola)
1 Australian (Billy Vunipola)
1 American (Sam Underhill)
1 Fijian (Joe Cokanasiga)
1 Samoan (Manu Tuilagi)

As I mentioned on the EMB, I'm actually feeling very pleased with the current England squad, as there's only one of them that didn't emigrate as a child and is a definite genuine poach - Heinz (and even he has a gran and three years in the country). No Te'o, no Hughes, no Mike Williams, no Mitch Lees; it could've been a lot worse given Eddie's previous selections.

Puja

I was a bit surprised, too. No doubt England’s ratios will change though because there is no way you’ll get through a whole tournament with Tuilagi and the Vunipolas intact.

So you have us down to play the whole tournament, interesting.

Lizard wrote:

Puja wrote:

Lizard wrote:England: 6 poached players (19.4% Johnny Foreigner)

2 New Zealanders (Willi Heinz, Mako Vunipola)
1 Australian (Billy Vunipola)
1 American (Sam Underhill)
1 Fijian (Joe Cokanasiga)
1 Samoan (Manu Tuilagi)

As I mentioned on the EMB, I'm actually feeling very pleased with the current England squad, as there's only one of them that didn't emigrate as a child and is a definite genuine poach - Heinz (and even he has a gran and three years in the country). No Te'o, no Hughes, no Mike Williams, no Mitch Lees; it could've been a lot worse given Eddie's previous selections.

Puja

I was a bit surprised, too. No doubt England’s ratios will change though because there is no way you’ll get through a whole tournament with Tuilagi and the Vunipolas intact.

Even if that happens, then players coming in will be Marchant, Moon/Williams, and Shields/Dombrandt, so we'll only have a maximum of one additional poach (and by the birther criteria, would be at minimum two players more "English").

Puja

Digby wrote:
So you have us down to play the whole tournament, interesting.

Good point.

Fresh off the press...

South Africa: 1 poached player (3.2% overly-transformative

1 Zimbabwean (Tendai Mtawarira)

And here's the big one...

New Zealand: 3 poached players (9.7% undermining our Pacific Cousins)

1 Fijian: Sevu Reece
1 Samoan: Neop Laulala
1 Tongan: Ofa Tuúngafasi

Big one once upon a time maybe. Now you're dropping down the rankings like a stone, panicking into picking two 10s in a system that was birthed mere moments before the World Cup and so denuded of ball carriers you're honestly considering picking a terrorist sympathiser with the positional play of Mr Magoo in the centres. Really things have gone to pot since Fifita went from looking brilliant to looking like all you've done is stop Tonga picking an average player in the name of not poaching.

Digby wrote:Big one once upon a time maybe. Now you're dropping down the rankings like a stone, panicking into picking two 10s in a system that was birthed mere moments before the World Cup and so denuded of ball carriers you're honestly considering picking a terrorist sympathiser with the positional play of Mr Magoo in the centres. Really things have gone to pot since Fifita went from looking brilliant to looking like all you've done is stop Tonga picking an average player in the name of not poaching.

I’m sure it’s all a cunning plan to play a 10 at 15, an 8 at 6, and a 15 at 14, plus leave 108 caps at home to accommodate 2, and select a lock who, at best, will be fit for the QFs.

It’s fine.

Next up, the hosts...

Japan: 16 poached players (51.6% gaijin)

5 New Zealanders (Luke Thompson, Michael Leitch, Hendrik Tui, Will Tupou, Lomano Lemeki)
5 Tongans (Vakauta Isileli Nakajima, Asaeli Ai Valu, Uwe Helu, Amanaki Mafi, Ataata Moeakiola)
3 South Africans (Wimpie van der Walt, Lappies Labuschagné, Kotaro Matsushima)
1 Australian (James Moore)
1 Korean (Koo Ji-Won)
1 Samoan (Timothy Lafaele)

Oof 51.6% is surely going to be the highest.

While 19.4% is higher than I’d like for England, I feel mostly pretty comfortable about the nature of the poaching minus Heinz. I think the other 5 can absolutely be credited to the English system.

Scrumhead wrote:Oof 51.6% is surely going to be the highest.

While 19.4% is higher than I’d like for England, I feel mostly pretty comfortable about the nature of the poaching minus Heinz. I think the other 5 can absolutely be credited to the English system.

In defence of the Japanese, a few of those are legitimate. Leitch and Morakiola, for example, came to Japan when they were 15, Tui and Helu went to university in Japan when they were 18, and Matsushima and Nakajima (unsuprisingly) have Japanese dads.

Puja