RugbyRebels

We've been deprived of a national pastime of bitterly squabbling over the next coaches for a while now, so feels good to get back into the trenches. In terms of the next coaching group, these seem to be the more realistic options that I can think of, though there's probably others I've missed. Do say so if I have.

Head coaches

• Cotter
• Gatland
• Joseph
• Rennie
• Robertson
• Schmidt

Forwards coaches

• Joseph
• Plumtree

Backs/attack coaches

• Brown
• Schmidt

Defence coaches

• Mitchell
• Plumtree

Set-piece coaches

• Coventry
• Feek
• Ryan

I'm not sure where exactly Boyd, Robertson, and Keane all specialise in.

HC's not listed elsewhere (e.g. Cotter, Gatland, and Rennie) are because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to work as anyone's assistant. Though each would, presumably, take over whatever area they specialise in if they were HC.

I've included guys like Gatland and Schmidt even though they're probably unlikely (as HC, anyway) due to contractual or personal commitments. I'm also not entirely sure whether other NH based coaches may also be tied up by contracts.

Personally I was a big fan of the Cotter/Schmidt combo for post-2011. If Cotter were still interested then I'd still like to give it a go, though Schmidt's circumstances make it a bit tricky. If he's only gone for 2020, then could just use a stopgap (maybe coax Wayne Smith out of retirement for a year?) until he returns. If not, then would have to overlook him for now, or have him as a consultant/whatever.

Another complication is Tony Brown. The guy may just be a shoe-in for any coaching group. Both he and Schmidt are attack coaches, and two doesn't go into one. Though if we could do a Belichick, and convert an attack coach (Schmidt) into a defence coach, then it could work. Would also rock some serious coaching IQ.

For set-piece coach, I've seen more of Coventry and Ryan than Feek so am probably biased towards them. Both Coventry and Ryan have produced good packs and scrums, though Coventry has the greater experience so may lean towards him, even if it f*cks the Blues. Though would have no complaints with Ryan.

So a coaching setup that either looks like...

Cotter, HC & forwards
Schmidt, backs/attack coach
Plumtree, defence coach
Coventry/Ryan, set-piece coach

Or...

Cotter, HC & forwards
Brown, backs/attack coach
Schmidt, defence coach
Coventry/Ryan, set-piece coach

Much like 2011, it's probably an unlikely outcome, but there we go.

Two other thoughts on potential coaches:

Robertson is too inexperienced for a HC. His only experience beyond the Canterbury and Crusaders bubble is with the U20's, which inherently has a tumultuous nature. He'll need to go amass some international/NH experience first. Indeed, he lacks the test HC experience that NZR requires. Or, at least what they required when they declined Cotter in 2011.

While he's done great work with England, Mitchell still seems to be his same old abrasive self. May best be used as Eddie has used him; in a short intense burst.

Mitchell still has another two, I think, years on his contract with England. He may also be the HC through to the summer if Jones walks away.

Stuart Lancaster is available

I think NZ should invest in someone’s future and make someone with no international experience at all HC. Thanks.

Renniks wrote:I think NZ should invest in someone’s future and make someone with no international experience at all HC. Thanks.

On the contrary, I think they should consider someone with lots of experience across multiple counties. Scott Johnson seems the obvious choice.

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:Stuart Lancaster is available

Is he? Isn't he actually doing quite well at Leinster?

Mainly it's the done thing to link Burt to any job going. He's going at least okay in Leinster, probably be rated as good, but whilst he's under contract I think he'd surely be available for a role with NZ bar he does have kids and it might not work given wanting to keep kids in the same area/school

Will there be any players in the team who played with/against Razor? I think that was in issue when Mitchell was head coach. He was expected to coach guys he had break consistently beaten by as a player. Apparently he held a grudge where some of them were concerned.

cashead wrote:I'd go with:
Gatland - HC/Defence
Brown - Backs/Attack
Robertson - Forwards
Feek - Scrum

You would genuinely go for Gatland? That seems very odd to me. Even with the success he's brought Wales, the style with which he's done it seems antithetical to New Zealand rugby.

Why not Cotter? Had success with Scotland, has been around the block, might lure Schmidt back after his sabbatical.

Puja

Garland's record at Wales is hard to argue with but I really hope you lot don't go for him. His Wales the is not always as boring as last night but rugby is a lot better with an attack minded exciting New Zealand. If you can get them, I think a Cotter Schmidt combo would be dreamy.

Edit: I recognise Schmidt's Ireland team hasn't always been the best to watch but I do think he is innovative and with different players would play a different way

Given the progression from Henry to Hansen, and the success that has brought, promotion from within the system is likely, with new blood brought in under HC level.

Lizard wrote:Given the progression from Henry to Hansen, and the success that has brought, promotion from within the system is likely, with new blood brought in under HC level.

Even after the utter collapse that is failing to win three games in a season and going out in the semi-finals? I was under the impression that those within the system were now ruled out for being part of such abject failure?

Puja

Schmidt - do the ABs want to play rugby by numbers?

Gatland - despite the recent success of Wales, most of his career there was typified by Gatball - a particularly dull form of safety first rugby without innovation.

I'd say avoid both like the plague. You have the player talent and just need a coach who allows them to express themselves, rather than constrain the team.

Pretty sure Schmidt's Leinster teams were totally different to his Irish teams.

Confirmation of Brown's status.

Tony Brown has revealed he has rejected overtures from both Ian Foster and Scott Robertson to be part of their coaching teams if they succeed in replacing Steve Hansen as All Blacks coach. Instead, Brown will be part of Jamie Joseph's team if the current coach of Japan applies for the All Blacks job. "It just didn't feel right to be floating between three coaching teams," he told the Breakdown.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...o ... -robertson

I take this as very good news for the pretty-much-anyone-but-Foster camp, of which I'm ardently a part of.

If Razor got the job would the NZ side then become a team that defends ball watching? And if so would the NZ franchises then all have to defend in similar fashion? I'm guessing most sides tend to watch the man as things stand, or is that an out of date view?

The NZRU has also apparently invited 26, TWENTY-Bloody-SIX!, coaches to apply for the head coach role with a nominated team of assistants.

I’m fairly sure they’ve ruled out foreign coaches (but I hope Jake White got an invite just for the troll value) so who is on their list?

Lizard wrote:The NZRU has also apparently invited 26, TWENTY-Bloody-SIX!, coaches to apply for the head coach role with a nominated team of assistants.

I’m fairly sure they’ve ruled out foreign coaches (but I hope Jake White for an invite just for the troll value) so who is on their list?

Here's my attempt (in no real order of preference) to think of 26 remotely viable candidates:

1. Foster
2. Cotter
3. Gatland
4. Joseph
5. Rennie
6. Robertson
7. Schmidt (although he has already ruled himself out)
8. Plumtree
9. Boyd
10. Brown (unlikely as he's committed to assisting Joseph)
11. Mitchell (which would keep talkback afloat for years)
12. Deans
13. Hansen (ok-not likely)
14. Brad Thorn?
15. Gibson
16. Umaga
17. McDonald
18. Wayne Smith
19. Hammett
20. Ryan
21. Mauger
22. McKee
23. Haig
24. Steve Jackson
25. Kirwan
26. Pivac

1 News confirms that all 26 candidates are Kiwis, and speculates:

1. Foster
2. Rennie
3. Robertson
4. Joseph
5. Brown
6. Boyd
7. McDonald
8. Colin Cooper*
9. Plumtree
10. Mauger
11. Coventry*
12. Ieremia*
13. Cotter
14. Goodman*
15. Dermody*
16. Lam*
17. Blackadder*
18. Haig
19. Mannix*
20. Keane*
21. Matson*
22. Crowley*
23. McMillan*
24. Steve Jackson
25. Jonno Gibbes*
26. Feek*

*Not in my list.

RNZ seems to have discounted the prospect of the NZRU getting a coach already committed elsewhere or has said they're not interested. Instead they've looked at Mitre 10 Cup coaches - none of whom really have a shot, do they?

If anyone's got Premium Access, the NZ Herald has a list behind the paywall.

NZRU has confirmed the 26 includes coaches of Super team, national sides and overseas clubs.

I can confirm that there will be people in Bath crying with laughter if you voluntarily choose Blackadder. I will be crying if you get Lam, as he's absolutely outstanding and I don't want him anywhere near you.

Puja

There is no way Blackadder is even close. He might be in the 26 but there is no way there are 26 people sufficiently qualified to be head coach of the All Blacks.

NZ Herald’s list (still paywalled, but my work gets the hardcopy):

1. Robertson
2. Joseph
3. Foster
4. Brown
5. Cotter
6. Rennie
7. Schmidt
8. Haig
9. Gatland
10. McKee
11. Wayne Smith
12. Mitchell
13. Brad Mooar*
14. Blackadder
15. Lam
16. Boyd
17. Gibbes
18. Mannix
19. MacDonald
20. Deans
21. Plumtree
22. Mauger
23. Cooper
24. Coventry
25. Thorn
26. Gibson

Only one new name over me and RNZ, Brad Mooar.

cashead wrote: 15. No no no no no, fuck no, no no no.

Why so strongly against Lam? He's been incredible coaching in Europe and his ability to build a team is second to none. Granted, I wouldn't necessarily chuck him in at the deep end on this little experience, but I'm surprised he rates a f*ck no.

Puja