RugbyRebels

We've been deprived of a national pastime of bitterly squabbling over the next coaches for a while now, so feels good to get back into the trenches. In terms of the next coaching group, these seem to be the more realistic options that I can think of, though there's probably others I've missed. Do say so if I have.

Head coaches

• Cotter
• Gatland
• Joseph
• Rennie
• Robertson
• Schmidt

Forwards coaches

• Joseph
• Plumtree

Backs/attack coaches

• Brown
• Schmidt

Defence coaches

• Mitchell
• Plumtree

Set-piece coaches

• Coventry
• Feek
• Ryan

I'm not sure where exactly Boyd, Robertson, and Keane all specialise in.

HC's not listed elsewhere (e.g. Cotter, Gatland, and Rennie) are because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to work as anyone's assistant. Though each would, presumably, take over whatever area they specialise in if they were HC.

I've included guys like Gatland and Schmidt even though they're probably unlikely (as HC, anyway) due to contractual or personal commitments. I'm also not entirely sure whether other NH based coaches may also be tied up by contracts.

Personally I was a big fan of the Cotter/Schmidt combo for post-2011. If Cotter were still interested then I'd still like to give it a go, though Schmidt's circumstances make it a bit tricky. If he's only gone for 2020, then could just use a stopgap (maybe coax Wayne Smith out of retirement for a year?) until he returns. If not, then would have to overlook him for now, or have him as a consultant/whatever.

Another complication is Tony Brown. The guy may just be a shoe-in for any coaching group. Both he and Schmidt are attack coaches, and two doesn't go into one. Though if we could do a Belichick, and convert an attack coach (Schmidt) into a defence coach, then it could work. Would also rock some serious coaching IQ.

For set-piece coach, I've seen more of Coventry and Ryan than Feek so am probably biased towards them. Both Coventry and Ryan have produced good packs and scrums, though Coventry has the greater experience so may lean towards him, even if it f*cks the Blues. Though would have no complaints with Ryan.

So a coaching setup that either looks like...

Cotter, HC & forwards
Schmidt, backs/attack coach
Plumtree, defence coach
Coventry/Ryan, set-piece coach

Or...

Cotter, HC & forwards
Brown, backs/attack coach
Schmidt, defence coach
Coventry/Ryan, set-piece coach

Much like 2011, it's probably an unlikely outcome, but there we go.

Two other thoughts on potential coaches:

Robertson is too inexperienced for a HC. His only experience beyond the Canterbury and Crusaders bubble is with the U20's, which inherently has a tumultuous nature. He'll need to go amass some international/NH experience first. Indeed, he lacks the test HC experience that NZR requires. Or, at least what they required when they declined Cotter in 2011.

While he's done great work with England, Mitchell still seems to be his same old abrasive self. May best be used as Eddie has used him; in a short intense burst.

Mitchell still has another two, I think, years on his contract with England. He may also be the HC through to the summer if Jones walks away.

Stuart Lancaster is available

I think NZ should invest in someone’s future and make someone with no international experience at all HC. Thanks.

Renniks wrote:I think NZ should invest in someone’s future and make someone with no international experience at all HC. Thanks.

On the contrary, I think they should consider someone with lots of experience across multiple counties. Scott Johnson seems the obvious choice.

Digby wrote:Stuart Lancaster is available

Is he? Isn't he actually doing quite well at Leinster?

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:Stuart Lancaster is available

Is he? Isn't he actually doing quite well at Leinster?

Mainly it's the done thing to link Burt to any job going. He's going at least okay in Leinster, probably be rated as good, but whilst he's under contract I think he'd surely be available for a role with NZ bar he does have kids and it might not work given wanting to keep kids in the same area/school

Will there be any players in the team who played with/against Razor? I think that was in issue when Mitchell was head coach. He was expected to coach guys he had break consistently beaten by as a player. Apparently he held a grudge where some of them were concerned.

canta_brian wrote:Will there be any players in the team who played with/against Razor? I think that was in issue when Mitchell was head coach. He was expected to coach guys he had break consistently beaten by as a player. Apparently he held a grudge where some of them were concerned.

His involvement in NZ rugby ended in 2003 when the Crusaders season ended, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a single player who played for either Perpignan or the Ricoh Black Rams when he was there. There'd be a fair few players who would've been involved with him as U20s coach though.

Digby wrote:

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:Stuart Lancaster is available

Is he? Isn't he actually doing quite well at Leinster?

Mainly it's the done thing to link Burt to any job going. He's going at least okay in Leinster, probably be rated as good, but whilst he's under contract I think he'd surely be available for a role with NZ bar he does have kids and it might not work given wanting to keep kids in the same area/school

The thing is, he'd actually probably be a pretty good fit in a coaching set-up here, and would likely make a good contribution for the All Blacks as an assistant coach.

zer0 wrote:We've been deprived of a national pastime of bitterly squabbling over the next coaches for a while now, so feels good to get back into the trenches. In terms of the next coaching group, these seem to be the more realistic options that I can think of, though there's probably others I've missed. Do say so if I have.

Head coaches

• Cotter
• Gatland
• Joseph
• Rennie
• Robertson
• Schmidt

Forwards coaches

• Joseph
• Plumtree

Backs/attack coaches

• Brown
• Schmidt

Defence coaches

• Mitchell
• Plumtree

Set-piece coaches

• Coventry
• Feek
• Ryan

I'm not sure where exactly Boyd, Robertson, and Keane all specialise in.

HC's not listed elsewhere (e.g. Cotter, Gatland, and Rennie) are because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to work as anyone's assistant. Though each would, presumably, take over whatever area they specialise in if they were HC.

I've included guys like Gatland and Schmidt even though they're probably unlikely (as HC, anyway) due to contractual or personal commitments. I'm also not entirely sure whether other NH based coaches may also be tied up by contracts.

Realistically, Jamie Joseph won't be available. In all likelihood, he'll stay on as Japan coach for another couple of years at least, and the JRFU are probably driving a dumptruck full of money over to his house right now as we speak.
Mitchell is also obviously out, and I'd prefer to see how Rennie operates as a head coach of a test team.

I'd go with:
Gatland - HC/Defence
Brown - Backs/Attack
Robertson - Forwards
Feek - Scrum

cashead wrote:I'd go with:
Gatland - HC/Defence
Brown - Backs/Attack
Robertson - Forwards
Feek - Scrum

You would genuinely go for Gatland? That seems very odd to me. Even with the success he's brought Wales, the style with which he's done it seems antithetical to New Zealand rugby.

Why not Cotter? Had success with Scotland, has been around the block, might lure Schmidt back after his sabbatical.

Puja

Puja wrote:

cashead wrote:I'd go with:
Gatland - HC/Defence
Brown - Backs/Attack
Robertson - Forwards
Feek - Scrum

You would genuinely go for Gatland? That seems very odd to me. Even with the success he's brought Wales, the style with which he's done it seems antithetical to New Zealand rugby.

Why not Cotter? Had success with Scotland, has been around the block, might lure Schmidt back after his sabbatical.

Puja

Gatland's been effectively ruled out by Steve Tew, who has come out and said his Lions duties in 2021 would make it impossible for him to take on the All Blacks job. Cotter would be the alternative, but as stodgy as his style is, Gatland has brought significant success to Wales, turning them from also-rans into genuine contenders (any team that makes the semis of a World Cup is usually good enough to win it), and it's clear there's a positive team culture in the Welsh camp.

My preferred option would be the Joseph/Brown duo, with Razor as the forwards coach, to be honest.

Garland's record at Wales is hard to argue with but I really hope you lot don't go for him. His Wales the is not always as boring as last night but rugby is a lot better with an attack minded exciting New Zealand. If you can get them, I think a Cotter Schmidt combo would be dreamy.

Edit: I recognise Schmidt's Ireland team hasn't always been the best to watch but I do think he is innovative and with different players would play a different way

Given the progression from Henry to Hansen, and the success that has brought, promotion from within the system is likely, with new blood brought in under HC level.

Lizard wrote:Given the progression from Henry to Hansen, and the success that has brought, promotion from within the system is likely, with new blood brought in under HC level.

Even after the utter collapse that is failing to win three games in a season and going out in the semi-finals? I was under the impression that those within the system were now ruled out for being part of such abject failure?

Puja

Puja wrote:

Lizard wrote:Given the progression from Henry to Hansen, and the success that has brought, promotion from within the system is likely, with new blood brought in under HC level.

Even after the utter collapse that is failing to win three games in a season and going out in the semi-finals? I was under the impression that those within the system were now ruled out for being part of such abject failure?

Puja

Mains has talked about facing adversity being a big part of a coach’s learning, and I would tend to agree with him.

That would mean someone like Fozzie, who has worked tough gigs and raised the overall performance expectations for the Chiefs would be valuable, but I think the setup also needs some new voices.

Schmidt - do the ABs want to play rugby by numbers?

Gatland - despite the recent success of Wales, most of his career there was typified by Gatball - a particularly dull form of safety first rugby without innovation.

I'd say avoid both like the plague. You have the player talent and just need a coach who allows them to express themselves, rather than constrain the team.

Pretty sure Schmidt's Leinster teams were totally different to his Irish teams.

Looks like the odds have considerably shortened on Rennie getting the gig. The NZRU have apparently gotten in touch with him, and if they're fixing to snatch him away from Australia, they've got a good chance of doing it.

Mains had an interesting perspective recently as well, stating that while Robertson's resume domestically is second to none, he's been helped greatly by being in the one of the best rugby factories, not just in New Zealand, but in the world. As a result, there's a glaring omission in his CV, which is that he's never faced adversity as a coach.

I'd still want him involved in some capacity as an assistant coach though, because he obviously would have a fair bit to contribute.

Confirmation of Brown's status.

Tony Brown has revealed he has rejected overtures from both Ian Foster and Scott Robertson to be part of their coaching teams if they succeed in replacing Steve Hansen as All Blacks coach. Instead, Brown will be part of Jamie Joseph's team if the current coach of Japan applies for the All Blacks job. "It just didn't feel right to be floating between three coaching teams," he told the Breakdown.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...o ... -robertson

I take this as very good news for the pretty-much-anyone-but-Foster camp, of which I'm ardently a part of.

If Razor got the job would the NZ side then become a team that defends ball watching? And if so would the NZ franchises then all have to defend in similar fashion? I'm guessing most sides tend to watch the man as things stand, or is that an out of date view?

zer0 wrote:Confirmation of Brown's status.

Tony Brown has revealed he has rejected overtures from both Ian Foster and Scott Robertson to be part of their coaching teams if they succeed in replacing Steve Hansen as All Blacks coach. Instead, Brown will be part of Jamie Joseph's team if the current coach of Japan applies for the All Blacks job. "It just didn't feel right to be floating between three coaching teams," he told the Breakdown.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...o ... -robertson

I take this as very good news for the pretty-much-anyone-but-Foster camp, of which I'm ardently a part of.

Tony Brown is unlikely to be in anyone's team other than Jamie Joseph's, so I'm not sure if this is as big an indictment of Foz as you'd like it to be.

Anyway, the NZRU has announced























































that the next coach will be announced in December.