RugbyRebels

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50674237

Good for him; glad he felt that he could. There are always people when this kind of story comes up that say, "Well, why should I care who he has sex with, why is he making a big deal out of it, does it matter?" and the answer is that, while it shouldn't matter, it really really does. It's scary being out and people *do* care and *do* react badly - not everyone, but potentially anyone. It makes you scared to just mention "my boyfriend" in the same way that other blokes mention "my girlfriend" because, while you're 90% sure none of the guys in earshot will have a problem, if one of them does then that's final - there's no taking it back. So you stay quiet, don't mention it, laugh along when the homophobic jokes come up, because you don't want to run the risk that one of the guys you play with might call you f*ggot and decide to bully you out of the club with cheap shots in rucks, "pranks" and "banter", and general disgust at who you are.

You can be 95% sure, 99% sure, 99.99% sure that no-one's going to have a problem, but it's that 0.01% chance of being wrong that terrifies and if you take that chance and you are wrong, you can never undo it.

That's why representation matters. That's why it's important to know that Nigel Owens, and now Craig Maxwell-Keyes, are out and no-one has stood up and told them that god hates them and they'll burn in hell. It's not about knowing who someone wants to have sex with - it's about knowing that you can be gay, you can talk about your boyfriend or husband instead of having to hide them away, because you've seen that someone else has done it and it's gone okay. I've no doubt that Owens being out made Maxwell-Keyes's decision easier, and Maxwell-Keyes being out will make somebody else feel like this sport is a safe space for them.

Well done sir.

Puja

I long for the day where something like this just isn't news because absolutely nobody cares.

As it is, it still takes guts, and he has my full respect for coming out

Which Tyler wrote:I long for the day where something like this just isn't news because absolutely nobody cares.

As it is, it still takes guts, and he has my full respect for coming out

Precisely this.

Let’s hope that wherever he’s reffing this weekend, the crowd give him a warm welcome! Being a referee today ain’t easy as his split second decisions - sometimes bad ones, are analysed on the big screen for all and sundry to see. Good man CMK, and may you be respected for coming out.

Let’s hope the crowd welcome him no differently than they did before this Twitter revelation

Which Tyler wrote:I long for the day where something like this just isn't news because absolutely nobody cares.

As it is, it still takes guts, and he has my full respect for coming out

Couldn't agree more.

Which Tyler wrote:I long for the day where something like this just isn't news because absolutely nobody cares.

As it is, it still takes guts, and he has my full respect for coming out

Well said

Puja wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50674237

Good for him; glad he felt that he could. There are always people when this kind of story comes up that say, "Well, why should I care who he has sex with, why is he making a big deal out of it, does it matter?" and the answer is that, while it shouldn't matter, it really really does. It's scary being out and people *do* care and *do* react badly - not everyone, but potentially anyone. It makes you scared to just mention "my boyfriend" in the same way that other blokes mention "my girlfriend" because, while you're 90% sure none of the guys in earshot will have a problem, if one of them does then that's final - there's no taking it back. So you stay quiet, don't mention it, laugh along when the homophobic jokes come up, because you don't want to run the risk that one of the guys you play with might call you f*ggot and decide to bully you out of the club with cheap shots in rucks, "pranks" and "banter", and general disgust at who you are.

You can be 95% sure, 99% sure, 99.99% sure that no-one's going to have a problem, but it's that 0.01% chance of being wrong that terrifies and if you take that chance and you are wrong, you can never undo it.

That's why representation matters. That's why it's important to know that Nigel Owens, and now Craig Maxwell-Keyes, are out and no-one has stood up and told them that god hates them and they'll burn in hell. It's not about knowing who someone wants to have sex with - it's about knowing that you can be gay, you can talk about your boyfriend or husband instead of having to hide them away, because you've seen that someone else has done it and it's gone okay. I've no doubt that Owens being out made Maxwell-Keyes's decision easier, and Maxwell-Keyes being out will make somebody else feel like this sport is a safe space for them.

Well done sir.

Puja

Literally never thought of it like that. S**t, that's awful.

Tom Moore wrote:Literally never thought of it like that. S**t, that's awful.

Won't lie; it's not great. I knew for 100% fact that my parents wouldn't disown me for being bi (cause they're great), but I was still sh*tting myself when I came out, cause it's not like you can say, "Lol, just kidding!" if the reaction's bad.

It's why I make a point of being out at the rugby clubs I play at (and challenging, "That's really gay," jokes with, "No, *I'm* gay - don't associate me with that bellend!"). I'm bi and married to a woman, so in most social circumstances I can pass as straight if I don't "flaunt it". However, I am old enough and secure enough not to give a shit about rugby players' reactions (and to go to committee or find another club if somebody is being a f*cknugget about it), and have all sorts of advantages that some 18 year old former colts player doesn't have. I figure it's my duty to not hide, even if it would be easier to, cause being visible could be massively important to someone else.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Tom Moore wrote:Literally never thought of it like that. S**t, that's awful.

Won't lie; it's not great. I knew for 100% fact that my parents wouldn't disown me for being bi (cause they're great), but I was still sh*tting myself when I came out, cause it's not like you can say, "Lol, just kidding!" if the reaction's bad.

It's why I make a point of being out at the rugby clubs I play at (and challenging, "That's really gay," jokes with, "No, *I'm* gay - don't associate me with that bellend!"). I'm bi and married to a woman, so in most social circumstances I can pass as straight if I don't "flaunt it". However, I am old enough and secure enough not to give a shit about rugby players' reactions (and to go to committee or find another club if somebody is being a f*cknugget about it), and have all sorts of advantages that some 18 year old former colts player doesn't have. I figure it's my duty to not hide, even if it would be easier to, cause being visible could be massively important to someone else.

Puja

The only slight issue that I'd raise among some excellent posts relates to older chaps like me. We were brought up in a different era and under the influence of prejudices that are no longer acceptable. Some of that era need time to learn; more time than younger, more enlightened types. There remains an unconscious distinction in some between acceptance and heartfelt agreement. That is not to argue for one second that the modern interpretation is anything other than right. It is a plea for a little patience among the enlightened. Fifty years of fixed opinion does not get radically changed overnight. Being lectured that black is now white sometimes causes a lack of progress when a gentle explanation of grey takes the issue forwards constructively to everyone's advantage.

I echo the hope that the situation whereby C M-K's announcement is un-newsworthy will apply soon.

What a nice thread.

Oakboy wrote:The only slight issue that I'd raise among some excellent posts relates to older chaps like me. We were brought up in a different era and under the influence of prejudices that are no longer acceptable. Some of that era need time to learn; more time than younger, more enlightened types. There remains an unconscious distinction in some between acceptance and heartfelt agreement. That is not to argue for one second that the modern interpretation is anything other than right. It is a plea for a little patience among the enlightened. Fifty years of fixed opinion does not get radically changed overnight. Being lectured that black is now white sometimes causes a lack of progress when a gentle explanation of grey takes the issue forwards constructively to everyone's advantage.

I echo the hope that the situation whereby C M-K's announcement is un-newsworthy will apply soon.

Acknowledge and I will always try to have time for a gentle explanation of grey, but if you ever do get a tirade from one of the enlightened, then patience in return is probably called for cause it's rarely ex-nihilo - yours might be the 50th comment that gets one tirade free, not necessarily because of anything you've said, but because they've had to deal with 49 jerk-offs before you.

Essentially, let's all be nice to each other.

Mikey Brown wrote:What a nice thread.

I know, right? While this board does have the advantage of being fully of generally decent people (apart from the mod), I will admit to being a little trepidatious about starting the thread, but this has been the rare thing of a nice conversation on the internet. Thanks all.

Puja