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6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:12 pm
by francoisfou
The 2020 6 Nations begins on February 1st, so I thought I'd start the thread by looking at the match officials.
Here is the link:
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2019/12 ... announced/
My first observation is that Jaco Peyper has been given the England v Ireland match on Februray the 23rd. After publicly horsing around with Welsh fans after their World Cup victory against France and re-enacting Sébastien Vahaamahina's downright stupid elbow to the neck of Wales' Wainwright, I'm rather surprised that he's not been sanctioned.
Secondly, the only Scottish official will be Mike Adamson who will be Touch Judge (or assistant ref, if you prefer) in the France v Ireland game. Aren't there any other Scots refs up to international standard?
There's one Irish ref, Andrew Brace, who has France v Italy on Feb 9th.
Karl Dickson deservedly has three matches as Touch Judge, Wales v France Feb 22nd, Ireland v Italy March 3rd and Wales v Scotland March 14th.
Nigel Owens will take charge of his 98th Test match, France v England, and Wayne Barnes his 90th, Ireland v France.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:45 pm
by Puja
francoisfou wrote:The 2020 6 Nations begins on February 1st, so I thought I'd start the thread by looking at the match officials.
Here is the link:
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2019/12 ... announced/
My first observation is that Jaco Peyper has been given the England v Ireland match on Februray the 23rd. After publicly horsing around with Welsh fans after their World Cup victory against France and re-enacting Sébastien Vahaamahina's downright stupid elbow to the neck of Wales' Wainwright, I'm rather surprised that he's not been sanctioned.
Secondly, the only Scottish official will be Mike Adamson who will be Touch Judge (or assistant ref, if you prefer) in the France v Ireland game. Aren't there any other Scots refs up to international standard?
There's one Irish ref, Andrew Brace, who has France v Italy on Feb 9th.
Karl Dickson deservedly has three matches as Touch Judge, Wales v France Feb 22nd, Ireland v Italy March 3rd and Wales v Scotland March 14th.
Nigel Owens will take charge of his 98th Test match, France v England, and Wayne Barnes his 90th, Ireland v France.
I don't know there was enough wrong with Peyper's photograph to affect his future refereeing career. Yes, it was stupid and impolitic for him to join in on the photograph, but there's no suggestion of bias or any on field issue arising from it. Give him a bollocking about professional deportment and, at absolute most, just keep him away from France games for a year to avoid abuse from fans.
Agreed that Dickson's deserving of more chances at a higher level - he's got to be in line for being a front line 6N ref once Nige and Wayne retire.
Puja
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:42 pm
by francoisfou
Puja wrote:francoisfou wrote:The 2020 6 Nations begins on February 1st, so I thought I'd start the thread by looking at the match officials.
Here is the link:
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2019/12 ... announced/
My first observation is that Jaco Peyper has been given the England v Ireland match on Februray the 23rd. After publicly horsing around with Welsh fans after their World Cup victory against France and re-enacting Sébastien Vahaamahina's downright stupid elbow to the neck of Wales' Wainwright, I'm rather surprised that he's not been sanctioned.
Secondly, the only Scottish official will be Mike Adamson who will be Touch Judge (or assistant ref, if you prefer) in the France v Ireland game. Aren't there any other Scots refs up to international standard?
There's one Irish ref, Andrew Brace, who has France v Italy on Feb 9th.
Karl Dickson deservedly has three matches as Touch Judge, Wales v France Feb 22nd, Ireland v Italy March 3rd and Wales v Scotland March 14th.
Nigel Owens will take charge of his 98th Test match, France v England, and Wayne Barnes his 90th, Ireland v France.
I don't know there was enough wrong with Peyper's photograph to affect his future refereeing career. Yes, it was stupid and impolitic for him to join in on the photograph, but there's no suggestion of bias or any on field issue arising from it. Give him a bollocking about professional deportment and, at absolute most, just keep him away from France games for a year to avoid abuse from fans.
Agreed that Dickson's deserving of more chances at a higher level - he's got to be in line for being a front line 6N ref once Nige and Wayne retire.
Puja
Absolutely no suggestion of bias but he certainly merits a bollocking from the World Rugby referees’ committee.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:11 pm
by Digby
francoisfou wrote:
Absolutely no suggestion of bias but he certainly merits a bollocking from the World Rugby referees’ committee.
A number of things have gone seriously wrong these last few years with the refs, a photo of someone having a moment of levity isn't amongst them
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:49 pm
by francoisfou
Digby wrote:francoisfou wrote:
Absolutely no suggestion of bias but he certainly merits a bollocking from the World Rugby referees’ committee.
A number of things have gone seriously wrong these last few years with the refs, a photo of someone having a moment of levity isn't amongst them
He ought to have chosen his “moment of levity”, as you put it, with a bit more care.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:11 pm
by Oakboy
What has happened to the policy of appointing SH refs for some games? Was it just a temporary exchange idea?
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:21 pm
by Digby
francoisfou wrote:Digby wrote:francoisfou wrote:
Absolutely no suggestion of bias but he certainly merits a bollocking from the World Rugby referees’ committee.
A number of things have gone seriously wrong these last few years with the refs, a photo of someone having a moment of levity isn't amongst them
He ought to have chosen his “moment of levity”, as you put it, with a bit more care.
Yes, but it's still nothing to really worry about.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:01 pm
by Raggs
Oakboy wrote:What has happened to the policy of appointing SH refs for some games? Was it just a temporary exchange idea?
Not enough good enough NH refs around?
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:22 pm
by fivepointer
Barnes and Owens are the best refs and get one game each. I understand the need to spread the appointments around a bit but how does O'Keefe get 2 games?
On Peyper, i can live with his ill judged larking about but his reffing is routinely second rate i'd say.
Luke Pearce is developing well and i dont mind Gardner. Brace is so so but at least isnt Lacey or Clancey.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:42 pm
by Puja
fivepointer wrote:Barnes and Owens are the best refs and get one game each. I understand the need to spread the appointments around a bit but how does O'Keefe get 2 games?
On Peyper, i can live with his ill judged larking about but his reffing is routinely second rate i'd say.
Luke Pearce is developing well and i dont mind Gardner. Brace is so so but at least isnt Lacey or Clancey.
I think they're trying to phase out Barnes and Owens and bring up others as both are talking imminent retirement.
Puja
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:40 am
by Beasties
fivepointer wrote:Barnes and Owens are the best refs and get one game each. I understand the need to spread the appointments around a bit but how does O'Keefe get 2 games?
On Peyper, i can live with his ill judged larking about but his reffing is routinely second rate i'd say.
Luke Pearce is developing well and i dont mind Gardner. Brace is so so but at least isnt Lacey or Clancey.
The Irish team cat would be an upgrade on Lacey.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:19 am
by Mr Mwenda
Any idea when the England squad gets announced?
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:04 am
by Numbers
francoisfou wrote:The 2020 6 Nations begins on February 1st, so I thought I'd start the thread by looking at the match officials.
Here is the link:
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2019/12 ... announced/
My first observation is that Jaco Peyper has been given the England v Ireland match on Februray the 23rd. After publicly horsing around with Welsh fans after their World Cup victory against France and re-enacting Sébastien Vahaamahina's downright stupid elbow to the neck of Wales' Wainwright, I'm rather surprised that he's not been sanctioned.
Secondly, the only Scottish official will be Mike Adamson who will be Touch Judge (or assistant ref, if you prefer) in the France v Ireland game. Aren't there any other Scots refs up to international standard?
There's one Irish ref, Andrew Brace, who has France v Italy on Feb 9th.
Karl Dickson deservedly has three matches as Touch Judge, Wales v France Feb 22nd, Ireland v Italy March 3rd and Wales v Scotland March 14th.
Nigel Owens will take charge of his 98th Test match, France v England, and Wayne Barnes his 90th, Ireland v France.
I'm pretty sure Brace was raised in Wales but it working for the IRFU, I forsee another Rolandesque issue at some point in the future.
I agree with Karl Dickson being given a few more games, he has an understanding of rugby and the games he refs are allowed to flow from what I've seen of him.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:14 am
by Oakboy
Mr Mwenda wrote:Any idea when the England squad gets announced?
17th, I think.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:16 pm
by Mr Mwenda
I'll go back to sleep then, tah.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:33 pm
by francoisfou
Eddie should be announcing his 6N squad in the wext week or so.
Who do we think should be included who wasn't at the World Cup? Sam Simmons appears to be in top form and surely won't be ignored. Also in Exeter, Maunder, Hill and Devoto must be in with a shout. Wasps' Willis, maybe? Dombrandt, Obano, Earl?
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:59 pm
by Oakboy
I think the most interesting aspect will be whether Jones's selection announces a rebuild. For example, will he dump those who will be doubtful for the next RWC in terms of age e.g. Cole, Lawes, Youngs. Basically, though, there is a huge element of bollix as long as his contract only goes for half the 4-year cycle. The RFU should sack him (preferably) or give him the full term. I don't think he should pick a single squad without his future resolved. It's amateurish as it is.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:01 pm
by fivepointer
I'm not expecting wholesale changes from the WC squad.
Jones could select 24/25 of that squad which is what i think he will do.
I've a feeling he will retain Cole and give Heinz further opportunities. Injuries to Coka, Slade and Wilson open up the options for possibly Furbank, Devoto and Willis/Earl/Simmonds.
He should look at Stuart and a young SH but i'm not confident he will.
Expect to be a bit underwhelmed.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:16 pm
by Scrumhead
A colleague of mine went to a talk with Eddie Jones a few weeks back and he apparently said he was looking to refresh a third of the squad. In other words 10 players from the RWC squad which seems fairly savage.
Most of the players to have put their hands up have been covered already although the issue is that a lot of them are in positions where we our depth is good. For example, Earl and Willis have been playing out of their skins and could justifiably come in for Wilson (who’s injured anyway) and Ludlam (who’s been mainly used off the bench for Saints), but they’re unlikely to leapfrog Curry or Underhill.
Furbank is well worth a look and Malins’ injuries really have come at bad times as he’s looked very good in the few games he has had.
Will Stuart should definitely get a look in and I’d agree with francoisfou on Simmonds except, I’d say there’s a reasonably good chance he can/will be ignored. He may be helped by the fact that Dombrandt hasn’t really played enough to be a the shoo-in he probably should have been.
Wildcards for me would be Tom Dunn, Elliott Stooke Johnny Hill and Henry Taylor. Dunn, Stooke and Hill have been in an around the squad before and are in better form than most of their competition. Taylor has come from nowhere and has been a fairly significant part of Saints’ success this season. I’d prefer him to Maunder.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:26 pm
by Mellsblue
Scrumhead wrote:Taylor has come from the Goldington Road finishing school.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:37 pm
by 16th man
Would we collectively be happy with a loss in Paris (can't ever be happy with losing at home, or to the current Scotland side) in return for seeing a big turnover of the older guard for some of our younger options?
Not that I think France away will be a definite win even with a more experienced side out this time round.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:05 pm
by Puja
16th man wrote:Would we collectively be happy with a loss in Paris (can't ever be happy with losing at home, or to the current Scotland side) in return for seeing a big turnover of the older guard for some of our younger options?
Not that I think France away will be a definite win even with a more experienced side out this time round.
No, sod that! With the XV that we are putting out, we should be aiming for a GS. I'm not acting like we're guaranteed it, but we just reached the RWC final with that team and we should be disappointed not to be winning. Even if we drop 10 players from that squad, it's not going to be many of the XXIII and barely any of the XV - Youngs, Wilson, and Cole probably, Lawes possibly.
We should be aiming to renew like NZ did during their dominant run - bring new players into the squad but make them oust the starters if they want a shirt.
Puja
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:23 pm
by Timbo
I really can’t get behind the idea that we need to start moving players on aged around 29-31 for a tournament that’s happening in 4 years time. Courtney Lawes, for example, is playing the best rugby of his career right now, would be absurd to not pick him imo.
That said, I think a bit of churn is needed. Firstly because we’re not the finished article and need both more quality and depth in several positions, but also because it’s important to have an injection of energy and hunger from a few young tyros.
Just some squad gossip that I’ve read on online, is that both Wasps and Sarries have been told by Eddie that Launchbury and Kruis are unlikely to make the 6N’s squad....off the top of my head that would leave the likes of Stooke, Isiekwe (although playing at 6 mainly), Ewels (currently injured), Ribbands, Jonny Hill or maybe Alex Moon as presumably be most likely to replace them.
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:24 am
by Puja
Stooke and Hill have been in belting form, so I wouldn't be surprised to see either of them.
Puja
Re: 6 Nations 2020
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:44 am
by Beasties
Just caught up with the Wasps v Saints match last night. Wasps did well to lose to 13 men having been ahead near the end. I was hugely impressed with Ribbans.