RugbyRebels

I know this is months early but with half a season gone, I think it’s reasonable to start talking about the contenders.

I’m not sure how extensive the no first team policy will be. I’m assuming second/third choice players currently in the squad may be there to play leading roles.

Here’s what I’d go for:

1. E. Genge / B. Obano (V. Rapava-Ruskin)
2. L. Cowan-Dickie / T. Dunn (J. Singleton)
3. W. Stuart / H. Williams
4. C. Ewels / N. Isiekwe (J. Hill)
5. J. Launchbury (c) / A. Moon (E. Stooke)
6. J. Willis / T. Hill (L. Ludlam)
7. B. Earl / B. Curry
8. Z. Mercer / A. Dombrandt (S. Simmonds)
9. A. Mitchell / H. Randall
10. M. Smith / J. Simmonds / J. Umaga
11. O. Thorley / G. Ibitoye
12. O. Devoto / F. Dingwall (C. Redpath)
13. J. Marchant / O. Lawrence (A. Lozowski)
14. B. Loader / O. Hasell-Collins (R. Segun)
15. M. Malins / G. Furbank (H. Mallinder)

I’m going with something reminiscent of what we’d send on tour in a Lions year (hence the inclusion of Launchbury as captain etc.).

What’s fairly clear to me is that we have shedloads of options in some positions (back row for example) and very few in others (3, 9 and 12).

Personally I’d be excited to see a squad from that list. A back row of Willis, Earl and Dombrandt would be delicious but I wouldn’t be disappointed with (Ted) Hill, (Ben) Curry and Mercer re-forming their U20s set-up either. Very harsh to have (Sam) Simmonds missing out - he could be electric on a hard track in Japan, but I think Dombrandt and Mercer have better potential to be our future 8.

Lawrence and Loader are two I’m keen to see a lot more of particularly since the former has the power to play 12 and the latter has the skills to be a good 14 or 15.

Mallinder could be a real wildcard. He’s looked good since he came back and I’m hoping Boyd can help him to get the most out of his physical attributes.

When does Marchant start for the Blues, or is that deal off now? Fraser Dingwall is mostly a 13 I think.

What's Coka's situation?

Oakboy wrote:What's Coka's situation?

Good call. Still think he could be a superstar if handled correctly.

Banquo wrote:When does Marchant start for the Blues, or is that deal off now? Fraser Dingwall is mostly a 13 I think.

He already has. He’s doing well and has bagged a couple of tries already.

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:What's Coka's situation?

Good call. Still think he could be a superstar if handled correctly.

Indeed. Not sure Bath would be too happy though.

Would like to see Heyes capped just to stop the welsh from trying to poach him.

Scrumhead wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:What's Coka's situation?

Good call. Still think he could be a superstar if handled correctly.

Indeed. Not sure Bath would be too happy though.

Is he some time away from being fit?

I’d love to see Devoto given a proper run at 12, even on an England A tour.

Has Dingwall been showing anything much when he’s had his chances for NH or is he more in the ‘promising’ category?

It’s going to be impossible not to leave out some good players in the backrow over the next few years.

Scrumhead wrote:I know this is months early but with half a season gone, I think it’s reasonable to start talking about the contenders.

I’m not sure how extensive the no first team policy will be. I’m assuming second/third choice players currently in the squad may be there to play leading roles.

Here’s what I’d go for:

1. E. Genge / B. Obano (V. Rapava-Ruskin)
2. L. Cowan-Dickie / T. Dunn (J. Singleton)
3. W. Stuart / H. Williams
4. C. Ewels / N. Isiekwe (J. Hill)
5. J. Launchbury (c) / A. Moon (E. Stooke)
6. J. Willis / T. Hill (L. Ludlam)
7. B. Earl / B. Curry
8. Z. Mercer / A. Dombrandt (S. Simmonds)
9. A. Mitchell / H. Randall
10. M. Smith / J. Simmonds / J. Umaga
11. O. Thorley / G. Ibitoye
12. O. Devoto / F. Dingwall (C. Redpath)
13. J. Marchant / O. Lawrence (A. Lozowski)
14. B. Loader / O. Hasell-Collins (R. Segun)
15. M. Malins / G. Furbank (H. Mallinder)

I’m going with something reminiscent of what we’d send on tour in a Lions year (hence the inclusion of Launchbury as captain etc.).

What’s fairly clear to me is that we have shedloads of options in some positions (back row for example) and very few in others (3, 9 and 12).

Personally I’d be excited to see a squad from that list. A back row of Willis, Earl and Dombrandt would be delicious but I wouldn’t be disappointed with (Ted) Hill, (Ben) Curry and Mercer re-forming their U20s set-up either. Very harsh to have (Sam) Simmonds missing out - he could be electric on a hard track in Japan, but I think Dombrandt and Mercer have better potential to be our future 8.

Lawrence and Loader are two I’m keen to see a lot more of particularly since the former has the power to play 12 and the latter has the skills to be a good 14 or 15.

Mallinder could be a real wildcard. He’s looked good since he came back and I’m hoping Boyd can help him to get the most out of his physical attributes.

Underhill? (Though I expect if he stays injury free he’ll be the Lions first choice 6 or 7 - Tipuric and Hamish Watson being other main contenders for 7 shirt)

I’m not sure Ibitoye is there yet, surely McConnochie would get a go.

I also think Mallinder will go.

jngf wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I know this is months early but with half a season gone, I think it’s reasonable to start talking about the contenders.

I’m not sure how extensive the no first team policy will be. I’m assuming second/third choice players currently in the squad may be there to play leading roles.

Here’s what I’d go for:

1. E. Genge / B. Obano (V. Rapava-Ruskin)
2. L. Cowan-Dickie / T. Dunn (J. Singleton)
3. W. Stuart / H. Williams
4. C. Ewels / N. Isiekwe (J. Hill)
5. J. Launchbury (c) / A. Moon (E. Stooke)
6. J. Willis / T. Hill (L. Ludlam)
7. B. Earl / B. Curry
8. Z. Mercer / A. Dombrandt (S. Simmonds)
9. A. Mitchell / H. Randall
10. M. Smith / J. Simmonds / J. Umaga
11. O. Thorley / G. Ibitoye
12. O. Devoto / F. Dingwall (C. Redpath)
13. J. Marchant / O. Lawrence (A. Lozowski)
14. B. Loader / O. Hasell-Collins (R. Segun)
15. M. Malins / G. Furbank (H. Mallinder)

I’m going with something reminiscent of what we’d send on tour in a Lions year (hence the inclusion of Launchbury as captain etc.).

What’s fairly clear to me is that we have shedloads of options in some positions (back row for example) and very few in others (3, 9 and 12).

Personally I’d be excited to see a squad from that list. A back row of Willis, Earl and Dombrandt would be delicious but I wouldn’t be disappointed with (Ted) Hill, (Ben) Curry and Mercer re-forming their U20s set-up either. Very harsh to have (Sam) Simmonds missing out - he could be electric on a hard track in Japan, but I think Dombrandt and Mercer have better potential to be our future 8.

Lawrence and Loader are two I’m keen to see a lot more of particularly since the former has the power to play 12 and the latter has the skills to be a good 14 or 15.

Mallinder could be a real wildcard. He’s looked good since he came back and I’m hoping Boyd can help him to get the most out of his physical attributes.

Underhill? (Though I expect if he stays injury free he’ll be the Lions first choice 6 or 7 - Tipuric and Hamish Watson being other main contenders for 7 shirt)

Players who went to the WC should be rested

Stom wrote:

jngf wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I know this is months early but with half a season gone, I think it’s reasonable to start talking about the contenders.

I’m not sure how extensive the no first team policy will be. I’m assuming second/third choice players currently in the squad may be there to play leading roles.

Here’s what I’d go for:

1. E. Genge / B. Obano (V. Rapava-Ruskin)
2. L. Cowan-Dickie / T. Dunn (J. Singleton)
3. W. Stuart / H. Williams
4. C. Ewels / N. Isiekwe (J. Hill)
5. J. Launchbury (c) / A. Moon (E. Stooke)
6. J. Willis / T. Hill (L. Ludlam)
7. B. Earl / B. Curry
8. Z. Mercer / A. Dombrandt (S. Simmonds)
9. A. Mitchell / H. Randall
10. M. Smith / J. Simmonds / J. Umaga
11. O. Thorley / G. Ibitoye
12. O. Devoto / F. Dingwall (C. Redpath)
13. J. Marchant / O. Lawrence (A. Lozowski)
14. B. Loader / O. Hasell-Collins (R. Segun)
15. M. Malins / G. Furbank (H. Mallinder)

I’m going with something reminiscent of what we’d send on tour in a Lions year (hence the inclusion of Launchbury as captain etc.).

What’s fairly clear to me is that we have shedloads of options in some positions (back row for example) and very few in others (3, 9 and 12).

Personally I’d be excited to see a squad from that list. A back row of Willis, Earl and Dombrandt would be delicious but I wouldn’t be disappointed with (Ted) Hill, (Ben) Curry and Mercer re-forming their U20s set-up either. Very harsh to have (Sam) Simmonds missing out - he could be electric on a hard track in Japan, but I think Dombrandt and Mercer have better potential to be our future 8.

Lawrence and Loader are two I’m keen to see a lot more of particularly since the former has the power to play 12 and the latter has the skills to be a good 14 or 15.

Mallinder could be a real wildcard. He’s looked good since he came back and I’m hoping Boyd can help him to get the most out of his physical attributes.

Underhill? (Though I expect if he stays injury free he’ll be the Lions first choice 6 or 7 - Tipuric and Hamish Watson being other main contenders for 7 shirt)

Players who went to the WC should be rested

Sarries players will get no shortage of that

Stom wrote:

jngf wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I know this is months early but with half a season gone, I think it’s reasonable to start talking about the contenders.

I’m not sure how extensive the no first team policy will be. I’m assuming second/third choice players currently in the squad may be there to play leading roles.

Here’s what I’d go for:

1. E. Genge / B. Obano (V. Rapava-Ruskin)
2. L. Cowan-Dickie / T. Dunn (J. Singleton)
3. W. Stuart / H. Williams
4. C. Ewels / N. Isiekwe (J. Hill)
5. J. Launchbury (c) / A. Moon (E. Stooke)
6. J. Willis / T. Hill (L. Ludlam)
7. B. Earl / B. Curry
8. Z. Mercer / A. Dombrandt (S. Simmonds)
9. A. Mitchell / H. Randall
10. M. Smith / J. Simmonds / J. Umaga
11. O. Thorley / G. Ibitoye
12. O. Devoto / F. Dingwall (C. Redpath)
13. J. Marchant / O. Lawrence (A. Lozowski)
14. B. Loader / O. Hasell-Collins (R. Segun)
15. M. Malins / G. Furbank (H. Mallinder)

I’m going with something reminiscent of what we’d send on tour in a Lions year (hence the inclusion of Launchbury as captain etc.).

What’s fairly clear to me is that we have shedloads of options in some positions (back row for example) and very few in others (3, 9 and 12).

Personally I’d be excited to see a squad from that list. A back row of Willis, Earl and Dombrandt would be delicious but I wouldn’t be disappointed with (Ted) Hill, (Ben) Curry and Mercer re-forming their U20s set-up either. Very harsh to have (Sam) Simmonds missing out - he could be electric on a hard track in Japan, but I think Dombrandt and Mercer have better potential to be our future 8.

Lawrence and Loader are two I’m keen to see a lot more of particularly since the former has the power to play 12 and the latter has the skills to be a good 14 or 15.

Mallinder could be a real wildcard. He’s looked good since he came back and I’m hoping Boyd can help him to get the most out of his physical attributes.

Underhill? (Though I expect if he stays injury free he’ll be the Lions first choice 6 or 7 - Tipuric and Hamish Watson being other main contenders for 7 shirt)

Players who went to the WC should be rested

This. Japan 2020 has been billed as a ‘development’ tour with frontline players from the RWC rested. That’s why I said in the OP I saw it as a a bit similar to the summer tour squads we have in Lions years.

Scrumhead wrote:

Stom wrote:

jngf wrote:
Underhill? (Though I expect if he stays injury free he’ll be the Lions first choice 6 or 7 - Tipuric and Hamish Watson being other main contenders for 7 shirt)

Players who went to the WC should be rested

This. Japan 2020 has been billed as a ‘development’ tour with frontline players from the RWC rested. That’s why I said in the OP I saw it as a a bit similar to the summer tour squads we have in Lions years.

Wouldn’t you rather we just talked about Curry and Underhill though?

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Wilson in there, along with b Curry, Hill, and maybe some random 8 because for some reason Dombrandt, Mercer and Simmonds aren’t good enough.

I don’t altogether dislike the idea of Wilson going. He’d be a good captain.

The only problem with that is that as much as Wilson is a very good choice for the present, Hill and/or Willis are the future and if the point of the tour is development, they should surely get the nod.

Re. Storm’s point on Ibitoye, I agree he’s ‘not there yet’, but I don’t think McConnochie is a better choice. He doesn’t have the form or the experience to justify him going and from a development POV he’s probably peaked already.

What sort of commercial deals are available to front line players who might head to Japan after their successful WC?

Scrumhead wrote:

Banquo wrote:When does Marchant start for the Blues, or is that deal off now? Fraser Dingwall is mostly a 13 I think.

He already has. He’s doing well and has bagged a couple of tries already.

cool. I thought he was injured;would he be eligible for England as a Blues player by then?

Must admit I've lost interest in Super rugby, as have the crowds

Stom wrote:I’m not sure Ibitoye is there yet, surely McConnochie would get a go.

I also think Mallinder will go.

Mallinder has load of road testing to pass imo. He really was awful pre-injury.

jngf wrote:

Stom wrote:

jngf wrote:
Underhill? (Though I expect if he stays injury free he’ll be the Lions first choice 6 or 7 - Tipuric and Hamish Watson being other main contenders for 7 shirt)

Players who went to the WC should be rested

Sarries players will get no shortage of that

Shame for Underhill as he plays at Bath

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

Banquo wrote:When does Marchant start for the Blues, or is that deal off now? Fraser Dingwall is mostly a 13 I think.

He already has. He’s doing well and has bagged a couple of tries already.

cool. I thought he was injured;would he be eligible for England as a Blues player by then?

Must admit I've lost interest in Super rugby, as have the crowds

The change in the calendar from June tours to July means Super Rugby will be over by the time we face Japan.

Scrumhead wrote:I don’t altogether dislike the idea of Wilson going. He’d be a good captain.

The only problem with that is that as much as Wilson is a very good choice for the present, Hill and/or Willis are the future and if the point of the tour is development, they should surely get the nod.

Re. Storm’s point on Ibitoye, I agree he’s ‘not there yet’, but I don’t think McConnochie is a better choice. He doesn’t have the form or the experience to justify him going and from a development POV he’s probably peaked already.

There's a good argument not to take an entirely callow (at int'l level) squad and Wilson has shown solid leadership. Japan are no slouches, they're at home on the back of a successful WC so can enjoy some enthusiastic support and a wholly development squad might get its pants pulled down. Badly. A few seasoned players sprinkled through the units will go a long way I think.

It's only a bit of a shame he's in our embarrassment of future riches of a backrow.

Timbo wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
He already has. He’s doing well and has bagged a couple of tries already.

cool. I thought he was injured;would he be eligible for England as a Blues player by then?

Must admit I've lost interest in Super rugby, as have the crowds

The change in the calendar from June tours to July means Super Rugby will be over by the time we face Japan.

And considering he's only on loan at the Blues, I've no doubt Eddie will consider him a Harlequins player if he wants him. Oddly enough played on the wing this weekend to accomodate Rieko Ioane's (and, thus the All Blacks management's) demand to be tried at 13. Still scored two tries though.

Danno wrote:There's a good argument not to take an entirely callow (at int'l level) squad and Wilson has shown solid leadership. Japan are no slouches, they're at home on the back of a successful WC so can enjoy some enthusiastic support and a wholly development squad might get its pants pulled down. Badly. A few seasoned players sprinkled through the units will go a long way I think.

This is a pretty good point. We're used to thinking of Japan as a minnow side that could never beat us (dare anyone say the a-word?), but they are ranked 9th in the world, coming off the back of beating full-strength Scotland and Ireland sides. We wouldn't take a wholly development side to Argentina, who are ranked below them, and I think we want to be wary of underestimating Japan.

Puja

You need a bit of experience.
I like the idea of Launchbury as skipper. There's a case to take Wilson and you could put out a strong, mostly capped pack with the likes of Genge, Singleton/Dunn, Stuart/Williams, Ewels, Hill, Earl and Simmonds. I'd throw in Kpoku as a possible lock, Painter/Heyes as young tight heads and Capon at hooker. The back row is impossibly competitive. Some good players will miss out.
Its in the backs that we might have to put out a very green looking selection. Lots of good players at half back and centre, but very little experience.
A couple of names to consider. Johnny Williams has recovered from illness and is back playing for Newcastle. He's well worth a serious look at. As too is O'Flaherty on the wing.