RugbyRebels

Bit of news this week with Russia officially entering the bidding to host 2027, with dictator President Putin in support: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... imir-putin

On the one hand, Russia is a market that could be huge to crack - there's a huge potential audience, they do traditionally like physical sports, and if the autocrat decides this is a new arena for showing off his country to the world, I'd imagine a lot of funding and power to recruit new athletes would suddenly come the way of the RRF, giving them the chance to get up to Italy level in 7 years, maybe more. And after the cash-fest that will be France 2023, the IRB can afford to take another Japan-like risk.

On the other hand, there is the small matter of morals. Plus, the 2015, 2019, and 2023 tournaments will have been northern hemisphere, with 2 of them in Europe, and I don't know how much interest there will be in putting it Europe-adjacent again. Especially since their main competition for 2027 is going to be Australia who badly need both the funds and the attention that holding the RWC would give.

In addition, it is absolutely no secret that, if the Yanks manage to pull themselves together enough to bid for 2031, they are pretty much guaranteed to get it (lust for $$$), so that could mean 2027 goes to a safer bet.

No news on where the South Africans are on this. I'd've thought they'd have put in a bid, considering they were (unfairly, IMO) spurned for 2023, but maybe they've got an arrangement not to queer the Aussies' pitch, the same as the Argentines pulling out of 2027 contention.

Puja

Considering the tratment of LGBT people and the fact that they've systematically cheated in other sports, Russia shouldn't even be considered as hosts.

Australia have already proven they can put on a great tournament, and have the existing infrastructure to do so already.

We've no idea if 2023 will go ahead, and certainly no idea if it'll go ahead and generate income as might once have been expected. Also the sport whilst always desperate for cash is now facing ruin with its income models shredded, so even if 2023 does raise huge sums I cannot see anyone getting in a successful bid for 2027 if it doesn't look like the biggest fund raiser available.

Why one might look at Russia and think they shouldn't be considered for mistreatment of LGBT people rather than just mistreatment of people I don't know, 'tis just a little weird.

Digby wrote:We've no idea if 2023 will go ahead, and certainly no idea if it'll go ahead and generate income as might once have been expected. Also the sport whilst always desperate for cash is now facing ruin with its income models shredded, so even if 2023 does raise huge sums I cannot see anyone getting in a successful bid for 2027 if it doesn't look like the biggest fund raiser available.

Why one might look at Russia and think they shouldn't be considered for mistreatment of LGBT people rather than just mistreatment of people I don't know, 'tis just a little weird.

I know COVID's shaken a few paradigms, but I'd be very surprised if we've not beaten it by 2023!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:We've no idea if 2023 will go ahead, and certainly no idea if it'll go ahead and generate income as might once have been expected. Also the sport whilst always desperate for cash is now facing ruin with its income models shredded, so even if 2023 does raise huge sums I cannot see anyone getting in a successful bid for 2027 if it doesn't look like the biggest fund raiser available.

Why one might look at Russia and think they shouldn't be considered for mistreatment of LGBT people rather than just mistreatment of people I don't know, 'tis just a little weird.

I know COVID's shaken a few paradigms, but I'd be very surprised if we've not beaten it by 2023!

Puja

I'm not making any assumptions, and you never know, we might have further pandemics by then

It will still be a factor in 2023.

USA Rugby announce preliminary explorations of a RWC bid for 2027 and 2031, in association with MLR: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... up-bid-mlr

I think they should concentrate on 2031 - 2027 means going up against Australia who already have the support of SANZAAR and who desperately need the tournament for money and prestige for the code. I don't think World Rugby will want to choose between trying to kickstart America and keeping Australian rugby afloat. Better to go for 2031 where they'll walk it.

Puja

The USA will have regressed to a feudal system by 2031.

morepork wrote:The USA will have regressed to a feudal system by 2031.

All the better - if we can get the king behind the bid, then it's guaranteed to be a success. Anyone not attending a game or buying merch becomes guilty of treason.

Puja

Digby wrote:Why one might look at Russia and think they shouldn't be considered for mistreatment of LGBT people rather than just mistreatment of people I don't know, 'tis just a little weird.

Shut the fuck up with this bad faith shit. You absolutely know it's because there are laws passed in Russia specifically targeting them, while existing legal protections specific to the LGBT community was also systematically stripped away.

But then, you being a transphobic trashbag is a matter of record on here.

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:Why one might look at Russia and think they shouldn't be considered for mistreatment of LGBT people rather than just mistreatment of people I don't know, 'tis just a little weird.

Shut the fuck up with this bad faith shit. You absolutely know it's because there are laws passed in Russia specifically targeting them, while existing legal protections specific to the LGBT community was also systematically stripped away.

But then, you being a transphobic trashbag is a matter of record on here.

Lots of people in Russia are targeted, it's hardly just the one community. If one wanted to include them on a list of despicable behaviour by Russia that's fine, to single them I find a little odd, and they're hardly Russia's greatest or one great failing. To your other point it's possible I do rank as transphobic depending on one's definition, I don't think negatively about them, it's more I don't think about them, if that's makes me transphobic it's not something I'll think on

How many of those other, targeted groups have been actively declared illegal?

Again I'm not justifying the treatment of LGBT communities, though I'll note England have just played cricket against Pakistan with little controversy despite Pakistan discriminating against women, and it does seem odd some groups seem to gain more press coverage when really it'd make more sense to talk about treating people well than specific groups.

Would this apartment block be a worse legacy if it'd housed only gay families?




And they got a football World Cup, the Winter Olympics, and F1 races after that. All of which being much bigger than a few piddly little games of rugby

Right, this is going towards an argument for the Politics board as it's going from "Whether Russia should have the RWC" to "Which of Russia's human rights abuses is the worst?" with a fun little sidetrack into "Why do we always hear about LGBT people complaining about being beaten and murdered by officially sanctioned groups when there are other problems in the world?"

No more here please.

Mod

{Mod}
No more here please. Open a new Politics board thread if you like, but this is the second polite Mod request to you both not to do this here.
{/Mod}

Would be good for 27 to be in Aus and 31 to be in Yankville. Gives them a decade to sort their shit out, lol.

Paves the way for a return to Europe for 35, which will be nice as my son will be 19 then and the perfect age for a father/son drinking trip to see the rugby.

I wonder right now how easy it'd be not just to get a government commitment to underwrite an event but simply to get a meeting to discuss that possibility. There aren't likely many options for the IRB if the event has to raise money to be dispersed through the game. And it wouldn't take much of a shift to go from the 8 Nations event to an event with every tier 1 nation and bollocks to everyone else with no WCs for the foreseeable future

Stom wrote:Would be good for 27 to be in Aus and 31 to be in Yankville. Gives them a decade to sort their shit out, lol.

Paves the way for a return to Europe for 35, which will be nice as my son will be 19 then and the perfect age for a father/son drinking trip to see the rugby.

I approve of this as logic. My daughters will be 20 and 22 at that time, which is also pretty good timing for a trip to the rugby. Italy, maybe?

Digby wrote:I wonder right now how easy it'd be not just to get a government commitment to underwrite an event but simply to get a meeting to discuss that possibility. There aren't likely many options for the IRB if the event has to raise money to be dispersed through the game. And it wouldn't take much of a shift to go from the 8 Nations event to an event with every tier 1 nation and bollocks to everyone else with no WCs for the foreseeable future

I don't see the RWC getting mothballed, ever. It's the biggest earner in the game and Japan have shown that it's not a bad tickler for the economy either. Countries are still working on the basis that Covid will be beaten, especially in 7 and 11 years' time, so I don't see why there'd be a drop in interest in hosting.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:Would be good for 27 to be in Aus and 31 to be in Yankville. Gives them a decade to sort their shit out, lol.

Paves the way for a return to Europe for 35, which will be nice as my son will be 19 then and the perfect age for a father/son drinking trip to see the rugby.

I approve of this as logic. My daughters will be 20 and 22 at that time, which is also pretty good timing for a trip to the rugby. Italy, maybe?

Digby wrote:I wonder right now how easy it'd be not just to get a government commitment to underwrite an event but simply to get a meeting to discuss that possibility. There aren't likely many options for the IRB if the event has to raise money to be dispersed through the game. And it wouldn't take much of a shift to go from the 8 Nations event to an event with every tier 1 nation and bollocks to everyone else with no WCs for the foreseeable future

I don't see the RWC getting mothballed, ever. It's the biggest earner in the game and Japan have shown that it's not a bad tickler for the economy either. Countries are still working on the basis that Covid will be beaten, especially in 7 and 11 years' time, so I don't see why there'd be a drop in interest in hosting.

Puja

Italy or France, both would be good. Both have good wine and good food, that's what really matters

The RWC does earn a lot of money, but if an event can go ahead how much less would it earn if we called it the same thing whilst only inviting the top 10 countries and didn't seek to distribute wider monies across the game?

As is the RWC earns a lot, but it doesn't earn as much for say the RFU as 4 big games at HQ, and we're not the only ones in that position. It's part of the WC cycle now that NZ and Oz will claim they lose too much money and can't take part. And whilst there will be interest in hosting future events it's not going to be easy to put up the sort of money France and Japan have stumped up in recent times, sums as just noted NZ and Oz already say aren't enough, and still less easy to get those sums guaranteed.

Russia have expanded their bid to 2031 as well, which I think is a lot more realistic of them. I don't see them winning against a cash-strapped Australia who already have Sanzaaaaaar support, but 2031 is significantly more open, even with USA being the deepest desire of Brett Gosper. A fully committed Russia, backed up by their dictator president, could deliver big crowds in big stadia, in a country that has to be a development target for the IRB. The politics may be despicable, but it's a lot safer bet than hoping USAR can attract the attention of the Yankee viewing public.



Puja

In the least surprising news of the day, Australia have confirmed that they are bidding for 2027: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57189263

Should be absolutely open and shut - everyone else should just fight over 2031 already. An Aussie RWC and the 2025 Lions tour will be an opportunity to reboot Australian rugby commercially and in popularity. Plus, hopefully the double-whammy of those two events will bring players back home (and keep youngsters away from league) to compete for places.

Puja

Yeah, they will swoop onto that. Just need to deal with drought/fires/floods/crocs with laser beam eyes.

What do you think happens to Phil Waugh if you feed him after midnight?

morepork wrote:Yeah, they will swoop onto that. Just need to deal with drought/fires/floods/crocs with laser beam eyes.

What do you think happens to Phil Waugh if you feed him after midnight?

I think Phil Waugh is the end result of feeding a cryptid after midnight.

Puja

Russia would be a terrible choice but just the sort of money-grubbing, politically tone-deaf thing that World Rugby could do.

I think Aussie is a good choice for '27. It will have to go North again after that, but I'd like to see it in Argentina in my lifetime.