A new dawn?

[Sandydragon]

A new start for the Dragons? This will upset plenty in the area, but I think it's time for a radical change. We can't continue as we are and some fresh money is desperately needed.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... l-11143079

[Eugene Wrayburn]

The only way that a rugby club can survive outside the auspices of its Union is to own its own ground so that it can monetise it on occasions other than mere matches and can get the maximum revenue from matches. This arrangement of making the Dragons tenants at Dave Parade and somehow hoping that by magic there'll be lots of "investment" will work only if you can find some sort of sugardaddy who doesn't mind losing money hand over fist and those are in very short supply.

[Buggaluggs]

Dunno. There might be a few folks who had their money invested overseas who might need to reinvest somewhere else a bit sharpish.

[UKHamlet]

Christ, I hope this works out. I have a soft spot for the Dragons and I'd hate to see them go to the wall.

[Sandydragon]

If the debt burden can be reduced it will be a start. I agree with Eugene regarding the ground, but in lieu of that being possible, this might offer us something.

Maybe.


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[Son of Mathonwy]

Dunno. There might be a few folks who had their money invested overseas who might need to reinvest somewhere else a bit sharpish.

Indeed!

...But these are people whose sole interest is maximising their net worth. Not exactly the kind of person who would invest in the Dragons...

[Numbers]

WRU funded development region?

I'm not sure what corporate experience Stuart Davies has but I would suggest not a great deal and certainly not enough to be running the show down there.

[Sandydragon]

WRU funded development region?

I'm not sure what corporate experience Stuart Davies has but I would suggest not a great deal and certainly not enough to be running the show down there.

Sadly, that surmises much of Welsh rugby.

[Tre]

The only way that a rugby club can survive outside the auspices of its Union is to own its own ground so that it can monetise it on occasions other than mere matches and can get the maximum revenue from matches. This arrangement of making the Dragons tenants at Dave Parade and somehow hoping that by magic there'll be lots of "investment" will work only if you can find some sort of sugardaddy who doesn't mind losing money hand over fist and those are in very short supply.

Then the only way they can survive is for the union to 'sell' their half to Newport RFC.

This is hilariously Dragons mind. So half arsed.

[Sandydragon]

The only way that a rugby club can survive outside the auspices of its Union is to own its own ground so that it can monetise it on occasions other than mere matches and can get the maximum revenue from matches. This arrangement of making the Dragons tenants at Dave Parade and somehow hoping that by magic there'll be lots of "investment" will work only if you can find some sort of sugardaddy who doesn't mind losing money hand over fist and those are in very short supply.

Then the only way they can survive is for the union to 'sell' their half to Newport RFC.

This is hilariously Dragons mind. So half arsed.

The rumour of the moment is that both Newport RFC and the WRU will effectively write off their share value to the right bidder. Who that bidder is, who knows? The Fail were linking this to London Welsh earlier.

[Tre]

The only way that a rugby club can survive outside the auspices of its Union is to own its own ground so that it can monetise it on occasions other than mere matches and can get the maximum revenue from matches. This arrangement of making the Dragons tenants at Dave Parade and somehow hoping that by magic there'll be lots of "investment" will work only if you can find some sort of sugardaddy who doesn't mind losing money hand over fist and those are in very short supply.

Then the only way they can survive is for the union to 'sell' their half to Newport RFC.

This is hilariously Dragons mind. So half arsed.

The rumour of the moment is that both Newport RFC and the WRU will effectively write off their share value to the right bidder. Who that bidder is, who knows? The Fail were linking this to London Welsh earlier.

There is no bidder yet.

What the fuck would they be bidding on? The Dragons don't even own the stadium.

[Sandydragon]

Then the only way they can survive is for the union to 'sell' their half to Newport RFC.

This is hilariously Dragons mind. So half arsed.

The rumour of the moment is that both Newport RFC and the WRU will effectively write off their share value to the right bidder. Who that bidder is, who knows? The Fail were linking this to London Welsh earlier.

There is no bidder yet.

What the fuck would they be bidding on? The Dragons don't even own the stadium.

Shares. But it would appear that the shares will be handed over for gratis to the right investor. Perhaps bid is the wrong way to phrase it, it's more a case of an investor which looks right for the club, assuming we have any potential investors at all.

[Tre]

The rumour of the moment is that both Newport RFC and the WRU will effectively write off their share value to the right bidder. Who that bidder is, who knows? The Fail were linking this to London Welsh earlier.

There is no bidder yet.

What the fuck would they be bidding on? The Dragons don't even own the stadium.

Shares. But it would appear that the shares will be handed over for gratis to the right investor. Perhaps bid is the wrong way to phrase it, it's more a case of an investor which looks right for the club, assuming we have any potential investors at all.

It would be very difficult to make any money without owning the ground unless the wru gave their half to Newport rfc. It would have to be a vanity project of some kind.

Everything about this is amateur. They literally can't even give the shares away.

[Sandydragon]

There is no bidder yet.

What the fuck would they be bidding on? The Dragons don't even own the stadium.

Shares. But it would appear that the shares will be handed over for gratis to the right investor. Perhaps bid is the wrong way to phrase it, it's more a case of an investor which looks right for the club, assuming we have any potential investors at all.

It would be very difficult to make any money without owning the ground unless the wru gave their half to Newport rfc. It would have to be a vanity project of some kind.

Everything about this is amateur. They literally can't even give the shares away.

Again from what I understand, the WRU seem to be happy to write off their ownership if the right investor came along. I agree that without a ground it would be highly difficult to make money. Having written that, Rodney Parade is a long way off current pro stadium standard; anyone who is remotely serious about taking the Dragons forward would be looking at an alternative to existing infrastructure.

[Tre]

Shares. But it would appear that the shares will be handed over for gratis to the right investor. Perhaps bid is the wrong way to phrase it, it's more a case of an investor which looks right for the club, assuming we have any potential investors at all.

It would be very difficult to make any money without owning the ground unless the wru gave their half to Newport rfc. It would have to be a vanity project of some kind.

Everything about this is amateur. They literally can't even give the shares away.

Again from what I understand, the WRU seem to be happy to write off their ownership if the right investor came along. I agree that without a ground it would be highly difficult to make money. Having written that, Rodney Parade is a long way off current pro stadium standard; anyone who is remotely serious about taking the Dragons forward would be looking at an alternative to existing infrastructure.

They would have to build a new stadium somewhere else in gwent or Newport

[Sandydragon]

It would be very difficult to make any money without owning the ground unless the wru gave their half to Newport rfc. It would have to be a vanity project of some kind.

Everything about this is amateur. They literally can't even give the shares away.

Again from what I understand, the WRU seem to be happy to write off their ownership if the right investor came along. I agree that without a ground it would be highly difficult to make money. Having written that, Rodney Parade is a long way off current pro stadium standard; anyone who is remotely serious about taking the Dragons forward would be looking at an alternative to existing infrastructure.

They would have to build a new stadium somewhere else in gwent or Newport

Agreed. Rodney Parade is a decent location in terms of trains and busses, but rubbish for anyone in a car. At the moment not a problem since only about a dozen or so supporters drive, but ifthe plan is to develop support, something better is needed. Pretty much since the beginning, the playing and training facilities have belonged to another company; albeit the concept of paying rent on a match by match basis would be a new one. from some of the press statements, it looks like staying at RP is the preferred option since it guarantees some income to Newport RFC who retain some shares in the physical property.

WHoever wants to takeover the region need to consider a hell of a lot, not least of which is what the team is supposed to be about. Is it a Gwent team or a Newport one? Or an East Wales in general one (why not try to include the likes of Wrexham - the Scarlets don't tend to spend much time up there). If Newport is dropped from the title then many existing supporters will walk.

In some ways we have the same identity crisis as you have had with the Blues, except since you have had some periods of success, I think you have had the means to overcome that to some degree, plus Cardiff is both bigger and more prosperous than Newport to begin with. If Im honest, my levels of optimism are pretty low, I cant see many hard nosed business men putting serious cash into this venture; other than the owners of London Welsh who want to enter the Pro 12 (apparently) I cant see any benefit beyond that of pure generosity/ self aggrandisement.

[Numbers]

Again from what I understand, the WRU seem to be happy to write off their ownership if the right investor came along. I agree that without a ground it would be highly difficult to make money. Having written that, Rodney Parade is a long way off current pro stadium standard; anyone who is remotely serious about taking the Dragons forward would be looking at an alternative to existing infrastructure.

They would have to build a new stadium somewhere else in gwent or Newport

Agreed. Rodney Parade is a decent location in terms of trains and busses, but rubbish for anyone in a car. At the moment not a problem since only about a dozen or so supporters drive, but ifthe plan is to develop support, something better is needed. Pretty much since the beginning, the playing and training facilities have belonged to another company; albeit the concept of paying rent on a match by match basis would be a new one. from some of the press statements, it looks like staying at RP is the preferred option since it guarantees some income to Newport RFC who retain some shares in the physical property.

WHoever wants to takeover the region need to consider a hell of a lot, not least of which is what the team is supposed to be about. Is it a Gwent team or a Newport one? Or an East Wales in general one (why not try to include the likes of Wrexham - the Scarlets don't tend to spend much time up there). If Newport is dropped from the title then many existing supporters will walk.

In some ways we have the same identity crisis as you have had with the Blues, except since you have had some periods of success, I think you have had the means to overcome that to some degree, plus Cardiff is both bigger and more prosperous than Newport to begin with. If Im honest, my levels of optimism are pretty low, I cant see many hard nosed business men putting serious cash into this venture; other than the owners of London Welsh who want to enter the Pro 12 (apparently) I cant see any benefit beyond that of pure generosity/ self aggrandisement.

I'm not sure people expect to be able to park near a stadium these days, as long as they have adequate public transport available.

I don't think a re-brand is a good idea, the brand is fine, the product is failing a bit, some success would increase crowds and some initiatives, hopefully they can get a decent CEO in who understands revenue streams. I have seen little added extra to matches at RP,they haven't changed the match day experience in years, probably decades.

[Sandydragon]

They would have to build a new stadium somewhere else in gwent or Newport

Agreed. Rodney Parade is a decent location in terms of trains and busses, but rubbish for anyone in a car. At the moment not a problem since only about a dozen or so supporters drive, but ifthe plan is to develop support, something better is needed. Pretty much since the beginning, the playing and training facilities have belonged to another company; albeit the concept of paying rent on a match by match basis would be a new one. from some of the press statements, it looks like staying at RP is the preferred option since it guarantees some income to Newport RFC who retain some shares in the physical property.

WHoever wants to takeover the region need to consider a hell of a lot, not least of which is what the team is supposed to be about. Is it a Gwent team or a Newport one? Or an East Wales in general one (why not try to include the likes of Wrexham - the Scarlets don't tend to spend much time up there). If Newport is dropped from the title then many existing supporters will walk.

In some ways we have the same identity crisis as you have had with the Blues, except since you have had some periods of success, I think you have had the means to overcome that to some degree, plus Cardiff is both bigger and more prosperous than Newport to begin with. If Im honest, my levels of optimism are pretty low, I cant see many hard nosed business men putting serious cash into this venture; other than the owners of London Welsh who want to enter the Pro 12 (apparently) I cant see any benefit beyond that of pure generosity/ self aggrandisement.

I'm not sure people expect to be able to park near a stadium these days, as long as they have adequate public transport available.

I don't think a re-brand is a good idea, the brand is fine, the product is failing a bit, some success would increase crowds and some initiatives, hopefully they can get a decent CEO in who understands revenue streams. I have seen little added extra to matches at RP,they haven't changed the match day experience in years, probably decades.

I think the issue about naming and branding is pretty important. Are we a county regional team, in which case its Gwent Dragons and we should play games at other lcoations that are suitable (erm....) or we are a Newport team. I don't think we get a lot of support from supporters of other semi-pro teams in Gwent. Many supporters I know (not scientific I know) are either Newport RFC fans or just follow the Dragons. Since the early days, the influx of supporters from Ebbw Vale, Newbridge etc has been virtually non-existent.

Part of me would prefer that we recognise that and just ditch the Gwent part of the title and rebrand as Newport Steelmen (assuming we have that trade remaining) or something else vaguely relevant and then look to build on that identity by attracting people from Newport, as well as sucking up a few from outside if success does come our way. Hopefully, who ever looks to take this forward will do some actual market research and understand the demographics and regional support map of our average supporters.

I agree totally about the match day experience. It hasn't changed since I was supporting Newport as a boy.

Regardless of my personal opinions, I do think this is a chance to redesign the Dragons concept and perhaps look to make it more appealing and relevant to what should be its core support. And having written all that, I think the most important elements are a supply of cash and then success. If a team is winning then people will turn up to watch, the name is somewhat less important. A team that is playing poorly and losing wont attract that many supporters regardless.

Feck knows, interesting times I suppose. Im just hoping that the future can be a bit brighter, although the realistic side of my nature is resigned to more hardship.

[Tre]

It's not rubbish for anyone in a car with the new shopping centre in fairness

[Sandydragon]

It's not rubbish for anyone in a car with the new shopping centre in fairness

I've yet to use that. My parent have said its a huge improvement over the previous option that stank like a latrine.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I don't think a rebrand would help. If it's the cost of gettign a sugardady in then fine but otherwise it's only likely to alienate some and please no one. The unease truce that is "Newport gwent" will suffice since mostly people call them the Dragons anyway.

I don't think that a regional entity needs to move games around the region and at this stage in the Dragons . The only one of the Irish provinces that moves is Munster and they only swap between the 2 centres. There are other ways of supporting the region in terms of outreach. I suspect the problem is getting them following a rugby team other than just wales, rather than the Dragons in particular.

[Sandydragon]

I don't think a rebrand would help. If it's the cost of gettign a sugardady in then fine but otherwise it's only likely to alienate some and please no one. The unease truce that is "Newport gwent" will suffice since mostly people call them the Dragons anyway.

I don't think that a regional entity needs to move games around the region and at this stage in the Dragons . The only one of the Irish provinces that moves is Munster and they only swap between the 2 centres. There are other ways of supporting the region in terms of outreach. I suspect the problem is getting them following a rugby team other than just wales, rather than the Dragons in particular.

Indeed. When the dragons was formed, it was supposed to incorporate all the Gwent WP teams, but very quickly the likes of Ebbw Vale and NEwbridge felt that it was all about Newport. In fairness, with all the games being played at RP, its easy to see why and initial hearts and minds attempts to incorporate the wider Gwent region weren't professional or successful.

That said, none of the other Stadia were fit for top flight rugby (arguably, neither is RP), so other than the most minor of games, taking games on the road was likely to be a non-starter. In practice the name reflects the confusion the club has over whether it is a super club, based on Newport RFC, or whether it is a region. For many supporters its an uneasy truce, but one where Newport/Gwent is hardly unique within Wales.

The comparison with the Irish provinces is interesting, but it isn't entirely accurate. You already had provinces in effect when the game went pro and there was some loyalty to them already. We had nothing between the WP clubs and international layer and tried to create an artificial layer that was not instantly popular and over a decade later, many still tolerate rather than instinctively love.

Thus is the bear pit of Welsh rugby politics.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I don't think a rebrand would help. If it's the cost of gettign a sugardady in then fine but otherwise it's only likely to alienate some and please no one. The unease truce that is "Newport gwent" will suffice since mostly people call them the Dragons anyway.

I don't think that a regional entity needs to move games around the region and at this stage in the Dragons . The only one of the Irish provinces that moves is Munster and they only swap between the 2 centres. There are other ways of supporting the region in terms of outreach. I suspect the problem is getting them following a rugby team other than just wales, rather than the Dragons in particular.

Indeed. When the dragons was formed, it was supposed to incorporate all the Gwent WP teams, but very quickly the likes of Ebbw Vale and NEwbridge felt that it was all about Newport. In fairness, with all the games being played at RP, its easy to see why and initial hearts and minds attempts to incorporate the wider Gwent region weren't professional or successful.

That said, none of the other Stadia were fit for top flight rugby (arguably, neither is RP), so other than the most minor of games, taking games on the road was likely to be a non-starter. In practice the name reflects the confusion the club has over whether it is a super club, based on Newport RFC, or whether it is a region. For many supporters its an uneasy truce, but one where Newport/Gwent is hardly unique within Wales.

The comparison with the Irish provinces is interesting, but it isn't entirely accurate. You already had provinces in effect when the game went pro and there was some loyalty to them already. We had nothing between the WP clubs and international layer and tried to create an artificial layer that was not instantly popular and over a decade later, many still tolerate rather than instinctively love.

Thus is the bear pit of Welsh rugby politics.

I entirely appreciate that having several hundreds of years of history behind the provinces makes them true regional entities in a way that the Welsh regions will always struggle to be, but I only meant to point out that even a truly regional entity need not move its games around that region.

I think people worry too much about the distinction between a super club and a region. The aim for either should be the same: to garner as much support as is possible from the surrounding areas and perhaps beyond.

[Sandydragon]

I don't think a rebrand would help. If it's the cost of gettign a sugardady in then fine but otherwise it's only likely to alienate some and please no one. The unease truce that is "Newport gwent" will suffice since mostly people call them the Dragons anyway.

I don't think that a regional entity needs to move games around the region and at this stage in the Dragons . The only one of the Irish provinces that moves is Munster and they only swap between the 2 centres. There are other ways of supporting the region in terms of outreach. I suspect the problem is getting them following a rugby team other than just wales, rather than the Dragons in particular.

Indeed. When the dragons was formed, it was supposed to incorporate all the Gwent WP teams, but very quickly the likes of Ebbw Vale and NEwbridge felt that it was all about Newport. In fairness, with all the games being played at RP, its easy to see why and initial hearts and minds attempts to incorporate the wider Gwent region weren't professional or successful.

That said, none of the other Stadia were fit for top flight rugby (arguably, neither is RP), so other than the most minor of games, taking games on the road was likely to be a non-starter. In practice the name reflects the confusion the club has over whether it is a super club, based on Newport RFC, or whether it is a region. For many supporters its an uneasy truce, but one where Newport/Gwent is hardly unique within Wales.

The comparison with the Irish provinces is interesting, but it isn't entirely accurate. You already had provinces in effect when the game went pro and there was some loyalty to them already. We had nothing between the WP clubs and international layer and tried to create an artificial layer that was not instantly popular and over a decade later, many still tolerate rather than instinctively love.

Thus is the bear pit of Welsh rugby politics.

I entirely appreciate that having several hundreds of years of history behind the provinces makes them true regional entities in a way that the Welsh regions will always struggle to be, but I only meant to point out that even a truly regional entity need not move its games around that region.

I think people worry too much about the distinction between a super club and a region. The aim for either should be the same: to garner as much support as is possible from the surrounding areas and perhaps beyond.

Agreed, and a super-club can still do that, if they are successful. Sadly, out of all the regions, NGD have been the least successful. We were probably the weakest region to start with, although with sufficient history and resources compared to the other Gwent rivals, and we have failed to really build in the pro era. I agree that there are other ways to get people to support a new entity, and moving games around the region is a bit late now, even if there were stadia that would be suitable for top flight games. Phil and I disagreed over many things, but I totally agree with him when he made his case that rugby teams had to be at least vaguely financially viable, which means stadium of a decent quality and some financial backing.

If we could turn back time (and no Im not channelling Cher here) then a more logical solution given their relative control of the game in Wales would have been for the WRU to establish regional pro teams. But they weren't strong enough and even then, club loyalties would have caused issues. Ultimately, many in Welsh rugby still want our own top flight league and there is no moving beyond that.

[Numbers]

It would be interesting to see the difference in attendance between Friday night games and Weekend games, that would probably give you a half decent reflection of how many travelling fans the Dragons have.