RugbyRebels

BACKS
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 45 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 86 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 70 caps)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 53 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 3 caps)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 2 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 59 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 5 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 32 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 44 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 102 caps)

FORWARDS
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 24 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 26 caps)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 6 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 21 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 52 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 2 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 41 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 67 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 71 caps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 38 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 6 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 20 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 54 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 62 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)
Jack Willis (Wasps, 1 cap)

When does this get whittled down for the weekend? Or in other words, when will Jack Willis be going back to Wasps, where he is desperately needed now it looks like Shields is out?

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
FORWARDS
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 24 caps)

And, with that, Tom Dunn's international career ends, after 3 caps and 11 minutes.

Puja

Poor bugger, gotta feel for him.

Peej wrote:When does this get whittled down for the weekend? Or in other words, when will Jack Willis be going back to Wasps, where he is desperately needed now it looks like Shields is out?

Usually Tuesday evening, isn't it? Plenty of time for him to come back. Mind, you still have Young, TWillis and Barbeary, with Oghre if you need another option, so you're hardly bereft!

Puja

Mr Mwenda wrote:Poor bugger, gotta feel for him.

Could look at it two ways tbh.

Marler having 71 caps surprised me.

Bloody good potential in that squad especially up front. Only dead wood is at half back....oops

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
FORWARDS
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 24 caps)

And, with that, Tom Dunn's international career ends, after 3 caps and 11 minutes.

Puja

That would be terribly harsh. Still would put him ahead of Jack Maunder, Don Armand and Chris Pennell.

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
FORWARDS
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 24 caps)

And, with that, Tom Dunn's international career ends, after 3 caps and 11 minutes.

Puja

11?
I thought he was on 93 seconds?

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
FORWARDS
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 24 caps)

And, with that, Tom Dunn's international career ends, after 3 caps and 11 minutes.

Puja

11?
I thought he was on 93 seconds?

He had an expansive 9 minutes against Georgia, presumably in deference to their weaker status.

Puja

Good to see Willis, Watson and LCD back in, although as others have said, I do feel sorry for Dunn if he gets dropped from the 23. He really should have got more time off the bench.

Willis has reacted in exactly the right way by going back to Wasps and putting in a good performance with another try. I don’t think Eddie can ask for much more.

The Welsh back row could be pretty inexperienced as Tipuric probably won’t pass RTP protocols and Navidi and Moriarty still don’t seem to be fully fit. Wainwright is probably the next most experienced and he’s hardly a veteran. If we’re up against a rookie back row, we’ll definitely fancy it and really no excuse to not play Willis.

Scrumhead wrote:Good to see Willis, Watson and LCD back in, although as others have said, I do feel sorry for Dunn if he gets dropped from the 23. He really should have got more time off the bench.

Willis has reacted in exactly the right way by going back to Wasps and putting in a good performance with another try. I don’t think Eddie can ask for much more.

The Welsh back row could be pretty inexperienced as Tipuric probably won’t pass RTP protocols and Navidi and Moriarty still don’t seem to be fully fit. Wainwright is probably the next most experienced and he’s hardly a veteran. If we’re up against a rookie back row, we’ll definitely fancy it and really no excuse to not play Willis.

I mean, Curry, Underhill, BillyV, and Earl didn't exactly have terrible games either at the weekend. I'd pick Willis, but I'll understand if Eddie doesn't (unless he picks Itoje at 6 again).

Puja

Yes of course - there are valid reasons not to play him, but there’s unlikely to be the excuse of not wanting to risk exposure against experienced opponents.

Scrumhead wrote:Good to see Willis, Watson and LCD back in, although as others have said, I do feel sorry for Dunn if he gets dropped from the 23. He really should have got more time off the bench.

Willis has reacted in exactly the right way by going back to Wasps and putting in a good performance with another try. I don’t think Eddie can ask for much more.

The Welsh back row could be pretty inexperienced as Tipuric probably won’t pass RTP protocols and Navidi and Moriarty still don’t seem to be fully fit. Wainwright is probably the next most experienced and he’s hardly a veteran. If we’re up against a rookie back row, we’ll definitely fancy it and really no excuse to not play Willis.

Not sure any of the back row would feel great about being dropped, given they were all very good against a tough team.

Could always have a 6/2 split on the bench....

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Could always have a 6/2 split on the bench....

It'd be a rare occasion that I'd be in favour of that!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Could always have a 6/2 split on the bench....

It'd be a rare occasion that I'd be in favour of that!

Puja

Having a lot of good back rows isn’t a strong reason and a bit of a cop out.

Watson for Malins, JJ to bench. Too soon for LCD so Dunn stays another week to play 2 minutes.

Thats it.

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Good to see Willis, Watson and LCD back in, although as others have said, I do feel sorry for Dunn if he gets dropped from the 23. He really should have got more time off the bench.

Willis has reacted in exactly the right way by going back to Wasps and putting in a good performance with another try. I don’t think Eddie can ask for much more.

The Welsh back row could be pretty inexperienced as Tipuric probably won’t pass RTP protocols and Navidi and Moriarty still don’t seem to be fully fit. Wainwright is probably the next most experienced and he’s hardly a veteran. If we’re up against a rookie back row, we’ll definitely fancy it and really no excuse to not play Willis.

Not sure any of the back row would feel great about being dropped, given they were all very good against a tough team.

I’m not saying they would feel great. I doubt Willis did when he was dropped for the Ireland game.

We know Curry and Underhill is a good partnership. Playing them again doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know. I think Willis deserves a chance against a better team than Georgia and and the reasons not to play him become less valid ‘if we’re up against a rookie back row’ as I said in the initial post.

Interesting article: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rugb ... s-display/

My own view is only way Eddie will look at Sam Simmonds again is if he switches to openside - a dual between him and Earl for flying flanker berth would be tantalising and I’d forgoe the services of one or both of the kamikaze twins if need be to make that happen

He’s in a tricky position, but I think he can only feature as an 8.

I don’t think you can be a test 7 without a strong breakdown game. If Simmonds has that, it’s not something we see from him an Exeter shirt so it’d be a tall order to ask him to play a different way for England.

Something like Hill, Curry and Simmonds could work. Almost no chance of that happening though.

Scrumhead wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Good to see Willis, Watson and LCD back in, although as others have said, I do feel sorry for Dunn if he gets dropped from the 23. He really should have got more time off the bench.

Willis has reacted in exactly the right way by going back to Wasps and putting in a good performance with another try. I don’t think Eddie can ask for much more.

The Welsh back row could be pretty inexperienced as Tipuric probably won’t pass RTP protocols and Navidi and Moriarty still don’t seem to be fully fit. Wainwright is probably the next most experienced and he’s hardly a veteran. If we’re up against a rookie back row, we’ll definitely fancy it and really no excuse to not play Willis.

Not sure any of the back row would feel great about being dropped, given they were all very good against a tough team.

I’m not saying they would feel great. I doubt Willis did when he was dropped for the Ireland game.

We know Curry and Underhill is a good partnership. Playing them again doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know. I think Willis deserves a chance against a better team than Georgia and and the reasons not to play him become less valid ‘if we’re up against a rookie back row’ as I said in the initial post.

I think saying ‘no excuse to not play Willis’ is just wrong. He has every good reason to not do so- even if rotating, Earl is next in line. Georgia was obviously a try oul some stuff game, but these are proper games against Tier 1 teams. I like Willis, but the (real) incumbents have responded brilliantly. It’d be good to see Willis in the squad, but it would be fine if he wasn’t.

Scrumhead wrote:He’s in a tricky position, but I think he can only feature as an 8.

I don’t think you can be a test 7 without a strong breakdown game. If Simmonds has that, it’s not something we see from him an Exeter shirt so it’d be a tall order to ask him to play a different way for England.

Something like Hill, Curry and Simmonds could work. Almost no chance of that happening though.

I’ve seen him very strong at the breakdown for Exeter. I will agree he has a different role now for them. Then again we saw all sorts of people who can’t jackal apparently...jackaling. And there is more to being good at the breakdown than jackaling of course- unseen work I believe it’s called

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:He’s in a tricky position, but I think he can only feature as an 8.

I don’t think you can be a test 7 without a strong breakdown game. If Simmonds has that, it’s not something we see from him an Exeter shirt so it’d be a tall order to ask him to play a different way for England.

Something like Hill, Curry and Simmonds could work. Almost no chance of that happening though.

I’ve seen him very strong at the breakdown for Exeter. I will agree he has a different role now for them. Then again we saw all sorts of people who can’t jackal apparently...jackaling. And there is more to being good at the breakdown than jackaling of course- unseen work I believe it’s called

I've seen him win jackal turnovers, but I've seen almost every forward do that. To be strong at it, you sort of expect someone to at least threaten turnovers multiple times on a per game basis.